SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
great question..and the simple answer is yes.
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Was Pilate totally blameless for crucifying Jesus?
- Thread starter Dubio
- Start date
great question..and the simple answer is yes.
outhouse
Atheistically
first Pilate in the NT is portrayed wrong. no one doubts this.
Pilate was a brutal killer knmown for his hatred of people from Galilee, and he had a bad habit of putting jews on a cross without a trial.
he says render to Caesar but never pays a dime, he send peter fishing instead.
he was questioned and took a middle of the road answer to keep from being prosecuted but tells peter the "sons are exempt" and send him fishing.
he never does pay, and if you look up history on the coins in the fishes mouth theres a cool little back story to all that.
one fact is, jesus does not pull money out of a coin purse and pay the tax.
why is it he is said to preach to all tax collectors in which he refers to as sinners and even gets good ole Zacc to give up much of his tax revenue. [perverting the nation]
this is all fiction.
there were up to 400,000 jews there. jesus would have been invisible in a sea of people
he was a little known backwater traveling teacher/healer who survived on dinner scraps. there were many teacher/healers in attendance. there was nothing special about jesus during this event other then the disturbance in teh temple that got him noticed and killed.
the entrance of the temple if anything, he would have been making fun of the roman entrance moking the way Pilate rode in.
Jesus may have escaped from the temple/bank guards into the sea of people, and they may not have wanted to arrest him in daylight as not to start a riot, that would mess up the payday while tensions were high among jews.
fact is we dont know. we know biblical jesus is not historical jesus and there was a whole lot of biblical jesus added to his legend
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
True..Pilate..so tough in fact that he was called back to Rome for excessive brutality and disgrace in around 36 A.D.
However, you may remember this small forgotten scene... Pilate was sitting in the judgment hall, his wife sent him a message: "Have nothing to do with that innocent man, because in a dream last night, I suffered much on account of him....Matthew 27.
dreams were big mojo in the ancient world. This coupled with the constant ebb and flow of a long standing power play between Rome and the Jews would give all the push Pilate would need to deliberately let Jesus off the hook.
as you yourself say..these guys were living on bare minimum diet, unless someone invited them in for dinner...what possibly could Jesus and his band of travelers have to declare anyway?
Yes, you right..there were many Messiah's and teachers, and all manner of prophets yet Jesus words are still read and poured over two thousand years later......invisible, not special you say?
However, you may remember this small forgotten scene... Pilate was sitting in the judgment hall, his wife sent him a message: "Have nothing to do with that innocent man, because in a dream last night, I suffered much on account of him....Matthew 27.
dreams were big mojo in the ancient world. This coupled with the constant ebb and flow of a long standing power play between Rome and the Jews would give all the push Pilate would need to deliberately let Jesus off the hook.
as you yourself say..these guys were living on bare minimum diet, unless someone invited them in for dinner...what possibly could Jesus and his band of travelers have to declare anyway?
Yes, you right..there were many Messiah's and teachers, and all manner of prophets yet Jesus words are still read and poured over two thousand years later......invisible, not special you say?
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outhouse
Atheistically
later addition due to the split in judaism, and the unknown authors were writing to a roman audience.
there was no ebb and flow at all. Pilate's way or death.
Caiaphas roman appointed and obviously helped Pilate raid the treasury
Saducees were in bed with the romans as they were making them lots of money.
Remember there was a tax war when jesus was a child in Galilee and it was the same as suicide. Just like the tax war after jesus death that claimed the temple. jews knew messing with Pilate was suicide
thats the point. jesus told his followers which were probably just the inner circle to give up everything including their beggar bowls and follow. they had nothing to be taxed for and surely walked cross country and avoided road taxes as well.
now if you know about roman taxation in the first century, it was brutal. they kept the jews on the point of starvation. Thats why wars in which they knew they would surely be wiped out under the roman hand was just like suicide.
it was a terrible time with disease and starvation. jesus offered free health care as expelling demons was often seen as effective, and it kept jesus well fed. remember jesus and pauls movements centered around the dinner table. not churches
jesus was not unique, you bring up such a good point. what was the catylist? why him?
well think about it.
You had a traveling teacher of judaism who preaches the coming kingdom of god which was not unique, and add a few excellent parables, thats not enoughto get you remembered in a sea of people.
BUT
Stand up against the corrupt temple/bank due to roman infection and try and stop the huge passover payday by starting a riot, with 400,000 possible witnesses to a common man fighting the roman oppression and over taxation and then get put on a cross for it??? then have a missing body or wrote it in much later.
you would have the oral tradition within judaism creating the exact foundation we see today in which the mythology was all based upon. its called cross cultural oral tradition. Jesus was not the jewish messiah and his movement failed with his death in judaism allthough the real apostles tried so hard. Only due to paul taking it to his roman brothers and preaching to the god-fearers as his targets did the religion start to really flourish. [god-fearer's were romans worshipping in synagogues]
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
truly my pleasure....
If Pilate found no basis for a charge against Jesus .. this means that Jesus denied being God, and that he denied being a representative of God on earth.
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
for Pilate that would have been religious arguement that didn't really interest him...when they got to Pilate they presented a case of treason..not blasphemy.
Aabraham ben Azar
Active Member
If the answer is YES then why are you blaming Pilate ?!!
The Romans took certain religious activities very seriously. One of those was not giving reverence to Ceasar and the other was claiming to be God/Godlike which usurps the power of Ceasar (treason).
In order for Pilate to have found no fault with Jesus he would have had to afirm reverence to Ceasar and deny God-hood.
It is not like the Romans were not intimately familiar with the religious struggles of the day. There were indeed familiar x 4.