fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Nope. I made a thread on this awhile back and showed that such a statement is false. You never provided any reason to think that they were "Romans."
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Was Pilate totally blameless for crucifying Jesus?
- Thread starter Dubio
- Start date
Nope. I made a thread on this awhile back and showed that such a statement is false. You never provided any reason to think that they were "Romans."
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The one problem I see with the Temple incident being the whole cause is that Jesus was allowed to leave and in fact come back after that. The more I have though about, the more I question the importance of his actions in the Temple. I'm currently writing an essay on this though so I won't delve too much into the subject now.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I can't wait to see your essay, so please share it!
Didn't the Temple thing happen just a week or so before his execution? I think it played a part - I think the "evidence against him" was more cumulative than one thing only. The questions directed at him at his trial had nothing to do with the Temple incident. My gut feeling is that this incident was probably used as more evidence against him, not as the main cause of his arrest.
A Troubled Man
Active Member
The Roman soldiers take their orders from an authority who makes a decision. That decision could be influenced in any number of ways, but the responsibility is entirely on who made the decision and gave the order. If it was Pilate, then he is responsible.
outhouse
Atheistically
A few days
if you use luke, he was arrested for perverting the nation, tax evasion, and claiming to be king, which jesus stated "is not of this earth"
a temple incident would be a instant death sentance.
other then that there was no reason to arrest him. he was a unknown jew in a sea of 400,000 jews with hundreds of teachers/healers.
They went in at night to arrest him as to not incite a riot when he commited his crimes.
outhouse
Atheistically
and you failed there
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Okay? I don't recall your sources or credible rebuttals.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I should probably have it done relatively soon. I just got done with my classes for this semester and now have time to finish this essay.
outhouse
Atheistically
I didnt recall your statement as credible
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
and deam yourself lucky. I seldom have to face palm.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
I have problems with this incident too. But I am kinda going with a small minority of scholars that it is actually refering to another incident.
Pilate put some shields in the proximity of the temple. A contigent of Jews lead a non-violent protest against Pilate. Some scholars believe Jesus was part of this protest. Josephus talks about this prostest and if Jesus actually arrive during Sukkot rather than Passover it would seem that Jesus may have indeed had a part of this protest.
I have a problem with Jesus having a vilolent fit in the temple it seems out of character for him, but taking part in a non-violent protest seems to be him.
I am not thoroughly convience of the theory though. But Jesus did preach non-violent protest.
outhouse
Atheistically
Its what made jesus special, he almost figured out how to play the roman game and beat them. He knew jewish violence against the roman power was futile.
he also wanted to try and get romans where it hurt. Money.
he did preach to tax collectors and had them try and quit raping the people.
how the romans robbed money from the jews was his priotity, he gave up all physical possesion and told others to do the same because romans would have less to tax, as well, if you were broke you paid no roman tax. You didnt contribute to the enemy.
even in the roman version of gospels we have, jesus is still fighting about money in the temple due to the roman infection in the temple.
We have a jew in Galilee preaching to tax collectors, and then when he gets to the temple and see's how the romans infected the church he looses it
I think very few people at this website even have a clue of how desperately poor these disease infested starving people actually had it.
remember, tax war in Galilee while jesus was a child was the same as suicide, but they had no choice.
same with the fall of the temple
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Can you give me the names of those scholars? I honestly have not heard this (or at least don't recall), and would be interested in following it further.
The last half, about being non-violent, I do agree with and that is something that I delve into in my essay.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
As far as anyone reading this, this is your opinion only. Your theories logically condradict each other, btw.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
I think Walter Wink was one who wrote about this. I'll look it up. it's not on the web.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
I think the priority of Jesus was mercy, forgiveness and justice not filthy lucre.
outhouse
Atheistically
No sir, they dont.
biblical jesus was created from mythology, and the center of this mythoogy lies a histroical core. this is not up for debate.
next up is, the writings we do have are not from eyewitnesses, but jewish romans, and god-fearers, if you even know what they are. these writing are not from the same culture or place jesus even belonged to.
written decades after his death. we have a movement that started and failed within judaism, that paul took to the gentiles who was heavily hellinized before writing began.
There is very little historicity to any of jesus
next time you might want to be more clear when you say "its just my opinion"
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I have to say that I haven't heard of him, or at least I don't think I have. I'm going to school for a class tonight, and will drop by the library. I'm sure they have it there.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
outhouse
Atheistically
we dont know enough about him to start giving biblical jesus historicity he doesnt have.
Historical jesus was a hard working peasant living in extreme poverty, who went from town to town to survive on dinner scraps. he probably had family members killed in the tax war in Galilee, and grew up with a hatred of all romans and their oppression that were killing his fellow jews due to starvation that led to disease.
we only have a partial glimpse of the parables and sayings, everything that did not line up with the roman version were left with would have been burned very early on and never would have made it past Constantine