Was Pilate totally blameless for crucifying Jesus?

[fallingblood]

Alfred Edersheim makes an interesting comment:

Alfred Edersheim died over a hundred years ago. Needless to say, his work is heavily outdated, considering the advancements that have been made in nearly a century and a half.


Maybe for once, you can actually provide some sources. And I don't think I should have to say this, but I will. I want sources that are at least within a century of today. Preferably they would be relatively recent, as well as credible. If you can't provide such sources, I have to assume you're just making things up, or at least are not as knowledgable on the subject as you claim.

 

[outhouse]

If you'd actually STUDY it a bit, which would require some reading, perhaps you'd pick up some grammar and punctuation skills.

try a rebuttle instead. oh wait, you cant lol

 

[outhouse]

Alfred Edersheim died over a hundred years ago. Needless to say, his work is heavily outdated, considering the advancements that have been made in nearly a century and a half.


Maybe for once, you can actually provide some sources. And I don't think I should have to say this, but I will. I want sources that are at least within a century of today. Preferably they would be relatively recent, as well as credible. If you can't provide such sources, I have to assume you're just making things up, or at least are not as knowledgable on the subject as you claim.

I posted a link get to refuting


that is just one of many, I told you I dont have the links to the books ive read. That doesnt mean the knowledge is wrong because of your ignorance


despite his work being old, it still came from the same sources many are using today.



if you cant refute a 100 year old work, what can you refute.

 

[fallingblood]

you just dont get it do you.

the money changing tables were there in the temple why??? art??

It's funny that you would say that I don't get it, when you haven't shown me to be wrong. I asked for sources, you fail to provide.

I want to know how those money changers have anything to do with giving money to Rome, or anything to do with taxation. Yes, they charged a fee, but it was a necessary work to be done. Most Jews simply didn't have a problem with such.

roughly 400,000 jews attended, heards of sheep were brought in more then likely Sadducee owned. They had animal baths at the temple for these herds right outside the gate.

I want sources. How do you know they are more then likely Sadducee owned?

animals had to be pure and unblemished, like the people, washed as well. these were not free

Why couldn't one bring one from home? And the purify them once they got to the Temple? And if it was needed, I doubt Jews would really mind to be given the convenience of not having to haul a sizable animal all the way from home, and then have to worry about it having a blemish.

Yes, it wasn't free, but again, there is no evidence that people minded.

I suppose the animal bathing pools were there for the swim team

You can ridicule. But it really means nothing when you can't even support your claims.

I posted links try reading them.

I did. The one came from Wikipedia, actually contradicts itself, and never gives a source (you, on the other hand, linked to some random website that simply copy and pasted Wikipedia material. I tried to get to the bottom of it, but there was simply no source given). The other was by someone who died over hundred years ago. Hardly credible.

 

[outhouse]

Alfred Edersheim died over a hundred years ago. Needless to say, his work is heavily outdated, considering the advancements that have been made in nearly a century and a half.


Maybe for once, you can actually provide some sources. And I don't think I should have to say this, but I will. I want sources that are at least within a century of today. Preferably they would be relatively recent, as well as credible. If you can't provide such sources, I have to assume you're just making things up, or at least are not as knowledgable on the subject as you claim.

your up against a wall and failing.

I provided a link that states all the taxes, and Alfred didnt write that, just the comment.


please try and keep up, you embarrass yourself

 

[outhouse]

want to know how those money changers have anything to do with giving money to Rome

I never stated that in this thread FAIL

 

[fantome profane]

Once again more speculation that doesn't seem logical to me. The Jewish authority would have been the ones going for the harshest sentence, not a Roman judge.

Well your speculation doesn't seem logical to me. Personally I am impressed by the trend that the latter Gospels tend to place more blame on the Jews and less blame on Pilate than the earlier ones. I am not saying that is proof of anything, but it is interesting.

 

[fallingblood]

I posted a link get to refuting


that is just one of many, I told you I dont have the links to the books ive read. That doesnt mean the knowledge is wrong because of your ignorance


despite his work being old, it still came from the same sources many are using today.


if you cant refute a 100 year old work, what can you refute.

If you have sources, then provide them. If they are in books you have read, cite them. I don't care if you have a link. I either have it, can get it via the internet from one of the academic sources I am subscribed to, or can go to my library, which has a large section regarding Rome in the first century, and find it.

And really, I'm not wasting my time to refute some man who died a hundred years ago. That simply is not credible, and if I posted the same, you would ridicule me. Simply it's sad.

 

[fallingblood]

your up against a wall and failing.

I provided a link that states all the taxes, and Alfred didnt write that, just the comment.


please try and keep up, you embarrass yourself

How am I up against a wall when you can't provide any credible source for your information? I simply asked for sources. You have done everything to avoid them, including saying that this subject was common knowledge, which I have shown it simply isn't, and to call it such, is simply intellectually dishonest, or sheer ignorance.

As for the link, I have no idea who it is from. As far as I know, it could be some a text from some teenager for a school project. That is not credible. I don't know if it is from a scholar or what. If that is where you are getting your information, then you simply are doing poor research.

Second, it doesn't state anything about Passover or how Passover would be this big money making event. It states a few taxes (not everything you mentioned), but it never really applies this to Galilee (which is relevant for Jesus), or to Judea as a whole. It mentions Capernaum, but that really has nothing to do with the discussion. It mentions one thing specifically about Judea, and the only support for such is a Bible passage. Again, not credible. So I have no idea how this relates to taxation during Passover and how it was a big money making situation. Your link simply doesn't state that.

As for Alfred, he again doesn't state anything in regards to Passover and how it is supposedly this big money making venture. And the fact that he is so outdated (I can tell you right now, if I presented him as backing for my argument in anyone of my classes, I would probably fail) makes him hardly credible.


Again, all I am asking for is credible sources. I want to see where you are getting your information from so I can check more into it. From what I have seen, Romans simply had import and export taxes for the roads. Otherwise, there was nothing.

Just a final thought, I just look at the Wiki link you indirectly linked to, and many of the sources are from either 1890 or 1900. If you look at the talk page, there is quite a bit of talk saying how that simply is not acceptable. You can't use sources from over a 100 years ago and thing that they will be credible. Not when we know so much more today.

 

[fallingblood]

Well your speculation doesn't seem logical to me. Personally I am impressed by the trend that the latter Gospels tend to place more blame on the Jews and less blame on Pilate than the earlier ones. I am not saying that is proof of anything, but it is interesting.

It is especially interesting when we get further away from the canonical Gospels and see just to what point the blame is on Pilate. I believe in the Gospel of Philip (I will have to double check), the Jews actually crucify Jesus, not the Romans. There are also a couple of works in which Pilate supposedly converts to Christianity. So there is definitely a trend.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

I want to ask :
How would Jesus die and sacrify without Pilate ? ( He had to crusify Jesus for our sin so Pilate was a mean to fulfil God's plan ).

I don't quite see it that way. Jesus did teach a great may new things, but his sacrifice is in other places in the Bible. The exodus from Egypt is the biggest, but Jonah's stint in the whale is another occurrence. Did Jesus need to die...no. It is just another event to help change our way of thinking about life. That all the things we consider to be impossible to overcome, can be overcome and you come out more alive than before. Changed yes, but all the better for it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Well your speculation doesn't seem logical to me. Personally I am impressed by the trend that the latter Gospels tend to place more blame on the Jews and less blame on Pilate than the earlier ones. I am not saying that is proof of anything, but it is interesting.

No speculation here, I think they are equally guilty.

 

[Desert Snake]

Also poor jewish peasant's wouldnt need to see any judge at all,

Pilate was acting as judge. According to scripture he certainly seems disinterested enough in the situation, so once again your assertations can be used against your own argument.

 

[Kathryn]

try a rebuttle instead. oh wait, you cant lol

I have to have something credible to rebut.

 

[outhouse]

I have to have something credible to rebut.

yep, I understand how romans never taxed anyone

 

[outhouse]

Pilate was acting as judge. According to scripture he certainly seems disinterested enough in the situation, so once again your assertations can be used against your own argument.

again

scripture has no historicity to the event at all.

 

[outhouse]

How am I up against a wall when you can't provide any credible source for your information?

I posted a link, which you took out of context and applied a older scholars statement [if he was] TO the whole article in which it didnt belong.

Now we know romans taxed everything so quit playing games.

 

[Desert Snake]

No. It's Josephus and Philo. They paint a very different picture of Pilate than the one given in the NT.

Revisiting this post, how credible do you think Josephus is as far as historocity is concerned?

 

[fallingblood]

I posted a link, which you took out of context and applied a older scholars statement [if he was] TO the whole article in which it didnt belong.

Now we know romans taxed everything so quit playing games.

I'm not playing games. You are the one who is doing everything in your power to avoid giving any sources. And when you do, they are hardly credible in any way. Also, I did address your links, and how they failed as neither one is credible nor from scholars from this century (or scholars at all).

So, where are your sources saying that Passover was such a huge money maker?

 

[Road Warrior]

It's God's fault.

Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."