Was the war justified?

[scitsofreaky]

You are right it is sad that people die in war, which is why we should only resort to war if it is justified. Did Saddam deserve to be removed, I don't think anyone wouldn't agree that he did. But, why was it our job to do so? If he broke UN charters, it was the UN's job to take action. Instead of putting pressure on the UN to do something, we took the "we're going in, and you should come to" mentality. We had no justifiable reason to invade Iraq.
By the way, I think the real reason Bush invaded was to finish what daddy didn't (even though he promised the Kurds that he would).

 

[Majikthise]

Does anybody remember a guy named Adolf Hitler who started his own little regiem in the 30s?Sure he's gaining power by bumping off people in his own government , but it's their problem, he won't bother us.Ok ,so he annexed another country, we'll keep an eye on him.Blimey!! Now he's after us,should have listened to Winston!Hey America, a little help?!?Oui, oui, we helped get your country started,remember?

What followed cost more than 5000 or so lives.Saddam was history repeating and we took the cue this time.And the Jews ,again, stood to bear a great deal of this destruction by an even older enemy.

 

[scitsofreaky]

Hitler had one thing Saddam didn't: support from his own people. What "hint" did we take?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Instead of putting pressure on the UN to do something, we took the "we're going in, and you should come to" mentality.

With all due respect, scitsofreaky, I believe the U.S. did everything it could to get the U.N. to act, to no avail. The "we're going in, and you should come to" mentality came after the U.N. Security Council rejected the U.S.-proposed resolution to use armed force on Saddam if he did not cooperate with inspectors by a certain time. Rather than pull our troops away from Iraq's borders (we couldn't keep them there indefinitely) and let Saddam declare victory (which probably would have emboldened other rougue dictators), we chose to act. Finally.

Yes, I think the war was justified, even if our leaders did a terrible job of convincing the rest of the world (though I wonder if much of the world would have been willing even if they'd done a good job).

 

[scitsofreaky]

I think that we had the aformentioned mentality when we went to the security council, but I guess it really isn't something that any of us knows.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think that we had the aformentioned mentality when we went to the security council, but I guess it really isn't something that any of us knows.

What makes you think that? Would we have had anything to gain by not wanting our allies to help us take down Saddam?

More likely that countries like France and Russia have had long-standing ties to Saddam's regime, the U.N. is incapable of using armed force when necessary (like the League of Nations), and the people of many Western Nations simply haven't learned the lessons taught by the failure of appeasement with Hitler in the 30's.

 

[almifkhar]

nope this war or any war is not justified. all war is, is business. for example, the american military machine will not go anywhere unless there is money to be made from it. but as for iraq. i think we were too cruel here and i will say why.
as far as saddam goes, he was our little puppet. we put him there. he did lots of bad things no doubt, but he also did good for that country. once apon a time iraq was the place to go if you needed quality medical care, a good college for the kids, they had a good standard of living. now the standard of living sucks. it is pretty bad when you cant have things like clean water to drink and electricy, a job to feed your family.
this war i will remind you has been going on for the past 14 years. we never stopped bombing this land, and what we did to the people with sanctions is beyond evil. it is a damn shame that the people could not get things like beans, penniclin. we totally wipped out the middle class of that society and caused the deaths of many a shiats (sorry for the spelling) with our promises of we will aid you in a cout de tat while all the while lying through our teeth. and here we are again with jr. but now we are poisoning them and their land with depleated uranium which poisons our own solders. this is no war it is now a genocide and for what? it makes no sense to me to kill innocent people.

 

[Blue_Lucy]

How can it be justifiable? How can one country say "we can have these weapons, but you can't?" By instigating the war, Bush has managed to take terrorism to a new level by filling his people with hate and prejudice (Terrorism by definition inspires TERROR) more than ever before. People are scared, and in being so, they attack!Therefore, IMO the war was not justified or reasonable, but a power play by a man who has no right to power.

 

[Majikthise]

Hitler had one thing Saddam didn't: support from his own people. What "hint" did we take?

Hitler did not have the support of the German people until his military victory improved the conditions in their country.Not all Germans loved Hitler ,but they loved Germany and believed Europe should be united under it.Do you see the analogies yet?

Saddam used the same tactics to facilitate his rise to power,claimed the desire to unify the middle east,sent his henchmen out to supress anyone who questioned his rule,and tried to invade other countries.Hint.

Secret military research is just that.Hitler got to use his weapons, Saddam had to stash them because people got nosey.

 

[No*s]

How can it be justifiable? How can one country say "we can have these weapons, but you can't?" By instigating the war, Bush has managed to take terrorism to a new level by filling his people with hate and prejudice (Terrorism by definition inspires TERROR) more than ever before. People are scared, and in being so, they attack!Therefore, IMO the war was not justified or reasonable, but a power play by a man who has no right to power.

Welcome to the forums Blue_Lucy. You should introduce yourself so we can welcome you properly.

Now I'm going to sit down and enjoy this show as it starts up again. I wish I had some popcorn.

 

[Majikthise]

How disapointing.

 

[No*s]

How disapointing.

Indeed. I was expecting it to hit the fan lol.

 

[scitsofreaky]

Hitler did not have the support of the German people until his military victory improved the conditions in their country.Not all Germans loved Hitler ,but they loved Germany and believed Europe should be united under it.Do you see the analogies yet?

Saddam used the same tactics to facilitate his rise to power,claimed the desire to unify the middle east,sent his henchmen out to supress anyone who questioned his rule,and tried to invade other countries.Hint.

Secret military research is just that.Hitler got to use his weapons, Saddam had to stash them because people got nosey.

Hitler was amassing a military, and it wasn't really a secret, while Saddam was not. Sure, he was developing weapons, but so is everyone else, are we going to declare war on everybody? The similarities you listed apply to all dictators, so are all dictators like Hitler? (an actual question)
I think that the best solution to prevent future conflicts such as this (and Afganistan for that matter) is to stop arming other groups with whom the only agreement is a common enemy.
Oh, and to answer the first part, I refer you to what I said earlier: I think the real reason for the invasion was to finish what daddy didn't.

 

[michel]

I'm going to leave out the 'WMD' factor out of the equation all together; it seems to have been a red herring (Deliberate or by mistake).

If you walk through your local park, and see a bully going round punching people about, what would you do? (Appart from going in there and trying to stop him yourself, which might well mean you would end up with two black eyes?)

You'd call the police, and tell them what's going on - some people would pretend not to notice, but I somehow think that forum members would be too ethical to do that.

Apply this to Iraq; namely Sadam. He was a dreadful tyrant, and someone should have done something about him a long time ago. I remember hearing some Iraqui sports men saying, that under his rule, if a sportsman did'nt do 'well enough', Saddam would have him executed.

The trouble is, that to some extent, if you are totally surrounded by violence and threat of your own life, the criminal fraternity tend to become ingrained with that same attitude towards life. When you get rid of the tyranic leader, alsorts of other ugly guys start crawling out of their hiding places, ready to step in his shoes.

So, in a way, this is a no win situation; get rid of Saddam, and now every crook with some ammunition wants a piece of the action. I bet that if all the 'allied troups' pulled out of Iraq today, there would be a few potential despot coming out of their holes, ready to fight all the others, for top place. Once there, what do you have? Hopefully not another Sadam, but a not 'very good' guy. I hate this negative way of thinking of mine, but I'm afraid that life has taught me to be cynical.

 

[retrorich]

How can it be justifiable? How can one country say "we can have these weapons, but you can't?" By instigating the war, Bush has managed to take terrorism to a new level by filling his people with hate and prejudice (Terrorism by definition inspires TERROR) more than ever before. People are scared, and in being so, they attack!Therefore, IMO the war was not justified or reasonable, but a power play by a man who has no right to power.

Nice first post, Blue_Lucy! Welcome to the the RF. Frubals to you.

 

[scitsofreaky]

I bet that if all the 'allied troups' pulled out of Iraq today, there would be a few potential despot coming out of their holes, ready to fight all the others, for top place.

I don't think it matters when we pull out, this is going to happen. The insurgency, although not supported by the majority, isn't going away, even if we catch the leaders.

 

[Sunstone]

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you might be right.

 

[Scuba Pete]

No I don't mind being lied to as long as action is taken.

Or the person lying isn't a Democrat. This is precisely the reason why this administration's deceptions have worked and how they got elected. There is a double standard that is accepted so easily by many Americans, and it's sad.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Or the person lying isn't a Democrat. This is precisely the reason why this administration's deceptions have worked and how they got elected. There is a double standard that is accepted so easily by many Americans, and it's sad.

Of course the whole WMD thing could have been a lie, actually I think it was.

But since I supported the war for other reasons, I don't really care why we're there, just that we're there.

I can understand that certain Americans would feel betrayed that their main reason they supported the war has just exploded, but I do not feel that way, because my reasons are still justified.

 

[jewscout]

we supported that maniac for years and during said years was when he committed his most violent acts
There are plenty of tyrants, dictators, and nut-jobs out there that are equally as bad if not worse than Saddam but we turn a blind eye to them, even support them...

the voting public and politicians don't seem to have their lofty ideals when it comes to them...

personally i never bought into that WMD horse crap...even powell openly said that this was bunk but it seems he was forced to go along with it...

Lets just admit we went in there for our own national interests which, i believe, have little to do w/ spreading freedom and democracy to anyone...i'm sorry, we can't make everyone like America it's highly improbable if not impossible
We're 5% of the world's population and absorb over 50% of the world's resources and we're absorbing them at an unsustainable rate...in order to have that sort of luxury, and lets be realists here, some people are gonna get the crap end of the stick...
unless every single american is willing to take it in the wallet, lose the simple luxuries we have come to see as necessity in our daily lives and sing cume-by-frigin-ya with the rest of the world it ain't gonna happen...

personally if Bush came out and said, "look the real reason i went to Iraq was for cheap oil, to scare the bejesus outta people we don't like, and to maintain America's predominance in the world so you can have your frigin microwave dinners and cable TV." i'd at least respect his honesty even if his answers didn't sit well with my slowly disipating youthful idealism...
It would be an answer i could believe...