Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[katiemygirl]

Is this forum being used for making others believe what we believe? Are we not just discussing our beliefs and trusting God to bring to light the real truth?

1Co 3:5-7 (ASV) 5 What then is Apollos? and what is Paul? Ministers through whom ye believed; and each as the Lord gave to him. 6 I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

My goal on this forum is to get us all to examine the Scriptures, and be willing to consider the possibility that we can all be wrong at times. Just like yesterday, you made me look at what 1 Cor. 15 said about not dying, but being changed from a mortal to an immortal body. I realized that what I had said in an earlier post was not correct. I should have said, we all must die, with the exception of the day Jesus comes again. You see, I don't have a problem saying I was wrong. I should have known better too because I've read that passage a zillion times. It goes to show that none of us are perfect.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

OK. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, they, believe more strongly in God than anyone imo. And God says, "they won't be ashamed". I beg to differ.

That is because you use your tailor made definition of belief.

Talk to Pegg about what the real definition of belief is. I know they used to know that one.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

One more thing. It is amazing what four little marks will do. But we have people resting on the belief that God's word, the written kind, is perfect. I'm gone.

2Ti 3:15-17 (ESVST) . 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

 

[katiemygirl]

Jn 1:1 (ESVST) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yup, Jesus is God!
People can believe whatever they want. I'm not here to convince them of this. Their minds are made up. I just would like everyone to be willing to take a second look at the Scriptures on all topics.

 

[katiemygirl]

That is because you use your tailor made definition of belief.

Talk to Pegg about what the real definition of belief is. I know they used to know that one.

I'm curious MC, what is your definition of belief?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

My goal on this forum is to get us all to examine the Scriptures, and be willing to consider the possibility that we can all be wrong at times. Just like yesterday, you made me look at what 1 Cor. 15 said about not dying, but being changed from a mortal to an immortal body. I realized that what I had said in an earlier post was not correct. I should have said, we all must die, with the exception of the day Jesus comes again. You see, I don't have a problem saying I was wrong. I should have known better too because I've read that passage a zillion times. It goes to show that none of us are perfect.

I look at this forum in the light of Hebrews 10:24-25. I have visited other forums, and they are no where close to the ease of understanding as this one. This forum is easy to navigate, and has some knowledgeable people. I appreciate you for making it!!

Heb 10:24-25 (ESVST) 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

People can believe whatever they want. I'm not here to convince them of this. Their minds are made up. I just would like everyone to be willing to take a second look at the Scriptures on all topics.

Pro 3:5-8 (ESVST) 5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.

Does anyone pray for the other before conversing on this forum?

Eph 1:15-20 (ESVST) 15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I believe yes. I have a 14 year old daughter, that knows my expectations of how I expect her to act. If she fails at times, and believe me she does, I point out her actions we work through them. If she were to grow up and decide to live a life that completely goes against what I have taught and expected of her, I wouldn't disown her, I wouldn't kick her out of my family. She will always be my daughter

1Co 3:10-15 (ESVST) it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — 13 each one 's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone' s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

One must bear in mind there that the worker is not the one doing the actual corrupting of God's building, and that is why they will yet be saved.

The one's who the worker lets deceive him so that he accepts them into the temple as if they were durable building material when they are in fact perishable material, are the ones corrupting the temple of God, (which temple is Christ's spiritual body) the church.

1 Corinthians 3:17 "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I'm curious MC, what is your definition of belief?

The active demonstration of faith. There is both feigned belief which pretends a faith but one that does not prove to walk as it ought to by God's true love; And then there is genuine belief which is the work of a faith that actively works God's true love.

It is all too easy for one to be zealous yet self-deceived, mistaking that feigned belief as the belief Jesus spoke of.

Hence comes the erroneous idea that profession is a one time thing which instantly saves.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Let us see if Paul agrees:

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I know. Jesus is not my "personal" lord.

He is my personal Lord and saviour. He is Lord to all that make that declaration, but my personal relationship with Him is different than yours. In you circle of friends, each one is a friend of the other, but are your friendships exactly the same? Aren't each of them personally different? I have 2 brothers and 1 sister, we have one dad that we each call dad, but our relationships with him are completely different. That's the way we need to view Jesus as our personal Lord. He is not my Lord "ONLY" but He is Lord of me personally.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The one's who the worker lets deceive him so that he accepts them into the temple as if they were durable building material when they are in fact perishable material, are the ones corrupting the temple of God, (which is temple is Christ's spiritual body) the church.

Correct. That's why I believe that faith in Jesus' works is our salvation. Who can, with a sincere heart, claim they know the truth? I don't believe that anyone on this earth teaches the complete truth. Look at all the different opinions on this forum alone. Who is teaching the truth? Everyone believes they themselves have the truth. If I decide to believe what you believe to be the truth and it is not, won't I be saved?

1Co 3:15 (ESVST) , though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

This verse is true, you believe there is one God you do well. The demons believe there is one God.

John 3:16-18 (ESVST) . 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Can demons believe in the atoning work of Jesus?

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Rom 6:22-23 (ESVST) . 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 2:4-9 (ESVST) 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2Ti 1:9 (ESVST) 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Tit 3:5 (ESVST) 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

I know people claim this speaks of the Mosaic law, but I believe it speaks of a lot more. Some people believe that if they do good to other people they will be saved. Some believe that their salvation depends on how many doors they knock on. Some people believe that just because they are a good person they will go to heaven. We can do "nothing" of our own to be saved. We can't be good enough, whether it is following the law, taking your elderly neighbor lunch, paying for the persons food behind you at McDonalds drive thru, going to church. (Mat 7:21-23 (ESVST) . 22 On that day many will say to me, ' Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.) Faith in the atoning work of Jesus is the only way for salvation. There is no other way, none!

People say that you have to follow God's commandments to be saved, belief isn't enough. Belief is enough. Can you believe in Jesus and accept His sacrifice for your sins and not love Him? I don't think so. Jesus said, (John 14:15 (ESVST) 15 " If you love me, you will keep my commandments.) We don't get and keep salvation from being doers of the Word, He said if you love me, you "WILL" keep my commandments.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** w13 4/15 p. 25 par. 8 “Make Sure of the More Important Things” ***
Meditating on Jehovah’s organization can move us to action, just as it did Isaiah. When the opportunity arose for him to tell others about what Jehovah is doing, he seized it without hesitation. (Read Isaiah 6:5, 8.)

 

[kjw47]

So they were lying when they thought that Jesus was making Himself equal with God? They didn't really think that?

If you want to debate this topic, you need to start a thread.

There is no debate--Jesus taught truth--anyone who contradicts that truth does not know him.

 

[kjw47]

Please prove the GB is God's exclusive channel.

It takes learning and applying --ALL-- of Jesus' truths. To see clearly, it cannot be proven to one who has not accomplished that.

 

[kjw47]

So they were lying when they thought that Jesus was making Himself equal with God? They didn't really think that?

The Pharisees were blinded by hate concerning Jesus. They said he received his power from satan, his new religion was a sect( cult) and he made himself = with God--but he did not--Jesus pointed his followers to his Father in everything. It only takes believing Jesus' teachings over mens dogmas.
I attended different trinity religions in my younger days--I was never taught the truths Jesus taught, not until I learned from The GB.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** w13 4/15 p. 24 par. 7 “Make Sure of the More Important Things” ***
Jehovah wanted Daniel to see that His organization is in motion, accomplishing His purpose. Daniel also saw “someone like a son of man,” Jesus, being given oversight of the earthly part of Jehovah’s organization.

The first thing I noticed about this statement was the use of Jesus in relation to what Daniel saw. They believe that Jesus was Michael before He was born of a woman.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.) (Reasoning from the Scriptures Page 218)

*** w64 7/1 p. 415 Questions From Readers ***
He issued from his throne a “commanding call, with an archangel’s voice,” to his followers on earth. Christ Jesus is Michael the archangel, in charge of the holy angels at his presence.

*** w84 12/15 p. 27 ‘Michael the Great Prince’—Who Is He? ***
Rather, it was Jesus Christ who was anointed by God to rule as king in a heavenly kingdom. (Luke 1:31-33; 22:29, 30; Psalm 110:1) He was the only one thus anointed. It is therefore only logical to say that Jesus and Michael are the same person.

*** w84 12/15 p. 28 ‘Michael the Great Prince’—Who Is He? ***
Among God’s spirit servants, only two names are associated with authority over angels: Michael and Jesus Christ. (Matthew 16:27; 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7) This, too, argues that Jesus and Michael are the same.


Jw's, how did Daniel see Jesus if He hadn't been born yet?

The second thing I noticed, unless I'm misreading) was the second part of the statement, are they saying they are in place of Jesus?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

It takes learning and applying --ALL-- of Jesus' truths. To see clearly, it cannot be proven to one who has not accomplished that.

Where is the "TRUTH" that God appointed the GB as the "ONLY" channel? Where can I find that "TRUTH"? From the Bible, not JW literature.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Mat 24:45 (ESVST) 45 " Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?


That question Jesus asked wasn't prophecy, "who is a faithful and wise servant" was a rhetorical question meant for self-examination whether the follower was doing the will of his master (the Father) and judging their actions whether they are right or wrong (a wise servant).

 

[Pegg]

Th real answer to that, Pegg, has to do with Peter's having had in mind the same thing which was spoken in the Old Law and referenced by Paul, here:

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:_)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Take time and ponder that.

Its ok, i'll take it that you dont know why Peter told the crowd that David was still in his grave and did not ascend to heaven.

I prefer modern english bibles tbh.