Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[savagewind]

With the attitude you display, perhaps we don't want to throw our pearls under your feet.

What would you do with the answer anyway. You have chosen your position..it is duly noted.
Jehovah knows what is in your heart...and in fact, in all of our hearts. Let him be the judge.

The last days were going to see "ridiculers with their ridicule" (2 Pet 3:3, 4).....so this thread is just a fulfilment of prophesy as far as I can see. Shaking the dust off our feet is in order I think. (Matt 10:11-15)

It is possible the writer wrote "mockers with their mockery". Is it not?

Define mockery: an absurd misrepresentation or imitation of something.

Define mocker: a person who causes repeated emotional pain, distress, or annoyance to another

You are free to believe whatever you wish.

We should be real grateful to the Watchtower Society who allows us to think what we will.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** g78 8/22 p. 3 Do Others Do Your Thinking? ***


Tricks of Propagandists

Symbols stir feelings. Words such as mother, home, justice, freedom—all pack a wallop for the heart. Slogans are catchy and seem to be packed with wisdom. Favorable facts are exaggerated; the others are distorted or concealed. Oratory often substitutes for sound argument, and it diverts attention from unpleasant truths that cannot be concealed. Burn a building in one place while robbing a grocery store somewhere else, is the technique.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

With the attitude you display, perhaps we don't want to throw our pearls under your feet.

What would you do with the answer anyway. You have chosen your position..it is duly noted.
Jehovah knows what is in your heart...and in fact, in all of our hearts. Let him be the judge.

The last days were going to see "ridiculers with their ridicule" (2 Pet 3:3, 4).....so this thread is just a fulfilment of prophesy as far as I can see. Shaking the dust off our feet is in order I think. (Matt 10:11-15)

You are free to believe whatever you wish.

Are you afraid of being disfellowshipped and shunned for answering the question? Your comments are exactly what JW's do when faced with the truth. Even though it is right in front of your face, you will sacrifice your integrity for that group of men. You have no pearls to cast! Because the only answer is that the GB was wrong and Christendom was right. That's why you "WON"T" answer it. Pride is a sin!!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** g78 8/22 p. 3 Do Others Do Your Thinking? ***


EDUCATION teaches you how to think. Propagandists tell you what to think. True educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists hammer hard on their view and discourage discussion. Many times their true motives are hidden. They sift the facts, tell the favorable ones and conceal the others. They distort and twist facts, specialize in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target. Many fall easy prey because it takes no effort to feel, whereas thinking is hard labor. And the propagandist sees to it that his message is made to seem wise, the right and moral one, and gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say.


Hmmm, I wonder who discourages education. I wonder who tells you what to think. I wonder who discourages discussion. I wonder! Does anyone else wonder who that may be?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** g78 8/22 pp. 3-4 Do Others Do Your Thinking? ***


Tyranny of authority, ridicule, name-calling, smears, slurs, personal digs—all such tactics are marshaled to assail your mind and take it by storm. Sound evidence, reasoning, logic? The propagandist’s deadliest foes!

 

[JFish123]

The word is "Monogenes" which is also used in scripture to describe firstborn humans. There is no qualification in the Bible that this word, as it is assigned to Jesus, is any different to any other "firstborn" or "only child".

Church scholars with a trinity to support have to read it onto the text. Since "the Word" (Logos) is not the only spirit "son of God" mentioned in the scriptures, he is definitely "firstborn" or "only begotten" in a unique or heavenly sense. He was the first and only direct creation of his Father (Rev 3:14) and he was used exclusively by the Father in all other creation, as a "master worker" (or "craftsman") but he is never called the Creator. (Prov 8:22, 30, 31) Jehovah alone is Creator and his firstborn was working alongside his Father in fashioning the raw materials that God had brought into being. This is what the Bible teaches....father and son were the "us" and "our" in Genesis 1....not as one "godhead" but as two separate entities. Was the pre-human Jesus a divine spirt, unique in all creation? Yes he was...but was he equal with his Father....NEVER!

Please provide a scripture where Jesus ever stated that he was equal to his Father.



The concept of a trinity is not found in the Bible. It is an introduced doctrine. Nowhere will you find a godhead mentioned as three gods in one entity. There is a reason why Jews do not believe in a triune God.....he never was part of Israel's belief system. Not from day one was Jehovah ever presented to them as anything but a single entity. Since Jesus was Jewish and taught his apostles from Jewish scripture, there is not one single mention of Jesus as anything but the "son of God". The title given to him by Christendom, "God the Son" does not exist anywhere in the scriptures.

The trinity did not exist as doctrine in "the church" until the fourth century when apostasy had well and truly taken over, as Jesus had foretold.

The trinity is a fraud! It is a blasphemy swallowed by a religious system that has no idea what Christianity ever was.
It is the "weeds" foretold by Jesus. You seem to have no idea how far back the rot goes. You accept what has been taught to you all your life without ever understanding how serious a deviation Christendom is from what Jesus taught.



How clever to disguise three gods in one godhead...that means no polytheism.......right? Sure it does.


Oh, that explains everything........not. Let's examine your scriptural "evidence"..shall we?


And this proves what?



You seem to overlook the fact that Thomas was demonstrating a lack of faith and his expression is one of shock. Was Jesus a "mighty one" to Thomas? This is what "theos" (god) means in Greek. It is not a word used exclusively for the Father. The shocked expression of a man expressing disbelief is hardly something to build a doctrine upon.



RS reads: “Of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.’” (KJ, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.) However, NW reads: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’” (AT, Mo, TC, By convey the same idea.)

Which rendering is harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say that God is speaking, not that he is being addressed; and the following verse uses the expression “God, thy God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God. Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads “Your divine throne.” (NE says, “Your throne is like God’s throne.” JP [verse 7]: “Thy throne given of God.”) Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.” (1 Chron. 29:23, NW) In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him.



Since God is the source of his holy spirit and the power behind the accomplishment of his will, this scripture is not proof of a trinity. Inference does not a doctrine make. It is God's spirit and God's son.....so all belong to him but are not a single godhead unless you want to read that into the text.

If there are no direct statements by either God or his Christ in the Bible, we cannot assume that a scripture says something we want to believe....especially not in connection with the very foundation doctrine of all faiths...WHO IS GOD?
We cannot worship a God we do know know. If we do not know him...he cannot know us.



You can infer whatever you like if you are looking for scripture to support what you want to believe. But reading these things into the text doesn't make that interpretation correct.

The Bible teaches that there is one Creator...Yahweh (Jehovah) He was the single God of Israel and therefore the same God that Jesus both served and worshipped. (Luke 4:8) He continued to regard Jehovah as his God even after his return to heaven. (Rev 3:12) Any comment on that? Or the fact that Jesus called his Father "the only true God" without including himself. (John 17:3)

You and I could swap scripture till the cows come home....but it won't make a difference if we are determined to stick with what we know, despite the proofs furnished. change is hard! But it's what is required if we are searching for the truth.

At the end of the day, we will all determine for ourselves what we accept as truth. This is why God's judgment of us is so fair. No one is coerced to believe one way or the other. We place ourselves on either the road to life or the road to death by our own desire to believe what we want to believe. It tells God what is in our hearts.
No one can come to the son unless the Father "draws" them. (John 6:44) So God is the reader of hearts and will only reveal his truth to those he considers "worthy" of it. (Matt 10:11-15) We do not determine our own 'worthiness'.

I have come out of Christendom, so I have been on both sides of this fence. I have examined all the scriptures that are put forward to support the trinity and found it to be a fraud of colossal proportions.

I see clearly the pagan origin of much of Christendom's celebrations and how none of them are serving God's interests, but their own. (2 Cor 6:14-18; 2 Thess 2:9-12) They also serve the interests of the world's commercial system, not promoting the unadulterated worship of God.

First, why did Jesus call the Father "my God?" Does this imply Jesus Himself is not God? By no means! Prior to the incarnation, Christ, the second person in the trinity, has only a divine nature. But in the incarnation Christ took on a human nature. It is this in his humanity that Christ acknowledged the Father as "my God."
Since Christ came as a man, and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and adore God, it was perfectly proper for Jesus to call the Father "my God." Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our High Priest ("made like His brothers in every way", Hebrews 2:27) Jesus could address the Father as "God." However Jesus did not relate to the Father in this way until he "emptied Himself" and became man, as it says in Philippians 2:6-8.
As well, Jesus always distinguished His relationship to God and mans relationship to God. He always said my God or your God but never 'our' God. That's because He is Gods Son by Nature, where as we are His Sons by adoption. And in His nature He was and is the very essence of God Himself.
Secondly, Thomas was not expressing surprise at seeing the risen Christ when he called Him "My Lord and My God." If Thomas had done this he would have been guilty of taking Gods name in vain. Jews of the first century believed that any careless use of Gods name amounted to blasphemy. If Thomas HAD taken Gods name in vain, Jesus surely would have rebuked him for doing so. But not only did Jesus NOT rebuke Thomas, He COMMENDED Thomas for finally coming to believe He was who He said He was (both "Lord" and "God") Jesus affirmed Thomas, not corrected Him.
No created being could ever allow such words to be addressed to him personally. No angel, no prophet, no sane human being could ever allow himself to be addressed as both Lord and God. Yet Jesus not only accepts the words of Thomas but pronounces the blessings of faith upon them as well. For Thomas wasn't just calling Jesus "a god." He was calling Jesus "His Lord" and "His God." And again, if Jesus was not God almighty in the same sense the Father is, He surely would have said something like, "No-I am just a lesser god. Jehovah is the only true God. You must not put me in Jehovahs place. Only Jehovah can be called my Lord and my God." But Jesus said Nothing. Instead, as I said, He Commended Thomas for recognizing His True Identity.
Thirdly, why do you out your faith in an organization that predicted Jesus would come back in 1874, which was false, then claimed that the coming of Old Testament saints to earth would be in 1925, and was false, and that human history would end in 1975 and was false. They even endorsed the worship of Jesus for 60 years. Does any Prophet of God get any prediction wrong even once in the bible? Not one. The Watchtower many times. Why put your trust in them?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** g78 8/22 p. 3 Do Others Do Your Thinking? ***
Symbols stir feelings. Words such as mother, home, justice, freedom—all pack a wallop for the heart. Slogans are catchy and seem to be packed with wisdom. Favorable facts are exaggerated; the others are distorted or concealed. Oratory often substitutes for sound argument, and it diverts attention from unpleasant truths that cannot be concealed. Burn a building in one place while robbing a grocery store somewhere else, is the technique.



*** w01 6/15 p. 26 Be Joyful With the Kingdom Hope! ***

Brother Lösch concluded by saying: “In order to remain spiritually protected, we must remain under the wings of Jehovah. This means that we must not develop a spirit of independence. Let us always stay close to Jehovah and his motherlike organization, not separating ourselves from their direction and loving counsel.”


*** w78 10/1 p. 24 Deliverance! Proving Ourselves Grateful ***

We were short on the necessities of life, but our loving brothers in the United States, by means of the Watch Tower Society’s branch in Paris, provided us with clothes and other material help. That proved to us how Jehovah’s organization takes care of us, as a mother would.”



*** w88 7/1 p. 22 I Found Justice—Not in Politics but in True Christianity ***

All these years in God’s organization have taught us an important lesson. It is only among God’s people that true justice may be found, with no racial, tribal, or religious barriers.



*** w84 5/15 p. 21 par. 8 See the Blessings of Kingdom Unity! ***

The prophet continues with his divinely given message, stating: “And in the wilderness justice will certainly reside, and in the orchard righteousness itself will dwell.” (Isaiah 32:16) Certainly, justice and righteousness dwell in Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

There's your 144,000, all from Egypt

The Finished Mystery page 29

 

[JayJayDee]

First, why did Jesus call the Father "my God?" Does this imply Jesus Himself is not God? By no means! Prior to the incarnation, Christ, the second person in the trinity, has only a divine nature. But in the incarnation Christ took on a human nature. It is this in his humanity that Christ acknowledged the Father as "my God."
Since Christ came as a man, and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and adore God, it was perfectly proper for Jesus to call the Father "my God." Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our High Priest ("made like His brothers in every way", Hebrews 2:27) Jesus could address the Father as "God." However Jesus did not relate to the Father in this way until he "emptied Himself" and became man, as it says in Philippians 2:6-8.
As well, Jesus always distinguished His relationship to God and mans relationship to God. He always said my God or your God but never 'our' God. That's because He is Gods Son by Nature, where as we are His Sons by adoption. And in His nature He was and is the very essence of God Himself.
Secondly, Thomas was not expressing surprise at seeing the risen Christ when he called Him "My Lord and My God." If Thomas had done this he would have been guilty of taking Gods name in vain. Jews of the first century believed that any careless use of Gods name amounted to blasphemy. If Thomas HAD taken Gods name in vain, Jesus surely would have rebuked him for doing so. But not only did Jesus NOT rebuke Thomas, He COMMENDED Thomas for finally coming to believe He was who He said He was (both "Lord" and "God") Jesus affirmed Thomas, not corrected Him.
No created being could ever allow such words to be addressed to him personally. No angel, no prophet, no sane human being could ever allow himself to be addressed as both Lord and God. Yet Jesus not only accepts the words of Thomas but pronounces the blessings of faith upon them as well. For Thomas wasn't just calling Jesus "a god." He was calling Jesus "His Lord" and "His God." And again, if Jesus was not God almighty in the same sense the Father is, He surely would have said something like, "No-I am just a lesser god. Jehovah is the only true God. You must not put me in Jehovahs place. Only Jehovah can be called my Lord and my God." But Jesus said Nothing. Instead, as I said, He Commended Thomas for recognizing His True Identity.
Thirdly, why do you out your faith in an organization that predicted Jesus would come back in 1874, which was false, then claimed that the coming of Old Testament saints to earth would be in 1925, and was false, and that human history would end in 1975 and was false. They even endorsed the worship of Jesus for 60 years. Does any Prophet of God get any prediction wrong even once in the bible? Not one. The Watchtower many times. Why put your trust in them?

If this is your chosen position, then go with it. Do whatever it is that you believe to be true.
No one stands over any of us with a big stick making us believe anything. If you are happy in your beliefs, then you position is duly noted....especially by by God. And let's face it..his opinion of us is the only one that matters really.

Many in the nation of Israel were put off from following Jesus because of what others said about him. It must have been pretty convincing for all those Jews to ignore what Jesus taught and cling to the garbage dished up by those negligent shepherds of whom he had not a good word to say. If those who rejected Jesus could go as far as to curse themselves with his blood, then confidence in one's chosen position is no indicator of its correctness.

Jesus didn't target the supporters of the Pharisees...his main audience were the ordinary people who had given up trying to live up to the impossible standards set for them by those who had apostatised...the ones Jesus called "hypocrites!". These "lost sheep" were not going to remain "lost" unless they chose to be. A careful search was made so that none would be overlooked. (Matt10:11-15) Those who accepted the message were baptised and those who rejected it were left to their own devices. God will not correct a deluded person who wishes to remain deluded. (2 Thess 2:9-12) It's a funny thing about deception....the deceived one cannot see it.

If Jesus' disciples had "searched" for the sheep like Christendom does today....they would have remained lost forever. I would not like them to "search" for me if I was lost. Sitting cozied up in.a building waiting for me to wander in is not exactly "searching" is it? Preaching to the converted doesn't really count as far as I can see. But it's all they seem to do. I know because I was one of them.

For me...I have made my choice, having been on both sides. If you have made your choice from a single vantage point, then you are welcome to that.

Go in peace....I have nothing to prove to you...any more than Jesus had to prove anything to those faithless Jews who had him hung on a stake.

We make no apology for doing what Jesus commanded.....and we have something to show for our faith.
We have kept on the watch and will continue to do so.

Ridicule might make someone feel smug...but it has a way of biting us in the rear end. Think days of Noah. (Matt 24:36-39)

 

[savagewind]

You should probably both know eventually everyone quits reading your llllloooooooonnnnnnggggggggggggg stuff.

Oh no! My alien troll says that it is better that you do not report it.

Haha says he.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

No one stands over any of us with a big stick making us believe anything. If you are happy in your beliefs, then you position is duly noted....especially by by God. And let's face it..his opinion of us is the only one that matters really.

That's not true, you have the GB!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Those who accepted the message were baptised and those who rejected it were left to their own devices. God will not correct a deluded person who wishes to remain deluded. (2 Thess 2:9-12) It's a funny thing about deception....the deceived one cannot see it.

You are so right! That's every JW

 

[savagewind]

It's not funny. It might be in the top ten of sad things.

 

[Pegg]

Repeating popular opinion is not a wise thing to do, when your every word is being scrutinized

How right you are.... im getting lazy/sloppy... time to pull my socks up

 

[savagewind]

Humankind was not created with only the capacity to know all things from The Creator. But the Jehovah's Witnesses are creating a world in which all that is known to be believed by them must come from their governing body. It's unnatural.

The three who say they are Jehovah's Witnesses who are on this forum have exhibited that they can not believe anything until it gets approved by their organizers. A truth can be right in front of their faces, but they won't accept it until the men of the governing body say it is OK.

No one yet has addressed the problem of how the JWs will learn anything after their teachers are changed into spirits.

 

[katiemygirl]

Can ANYONE answer?

The Governing Body claims to be God's exclusive or sole channel. How does God communicate with these men?

Can someone describe the channel between God and the GB? Is it invisible? Is it like a telephone? Can anyone vouch for its existence? What would the evidence be of this?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Humankind was not created with only the capacity to know all things from The Creator. But the Jehovah's Witnesses are creating a world in which all that is known to be believed by them must come from their governing body. It's unnatural.

The three who say they are Jehovah's Witnesses who are on this forum have exhibited that they can not believe anything until it gets approved by their organizers. A truth can be right in front of their faces, but they won't accept it until the men of the governing body say it is OK.

No one yet has addressed the problem of how the JWs will learn anything after their teachers are changed into spirits.

So true. That's because they are so well manipulated and controlled, that even though we present the truth, even though they clearly see the truth we are still apostates and when it comes from us they are trained to not accept it.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Can ANYONE answer?

The Governing Body claims to be God's exclusive or sole channel. How does God communicate with these men?

Can someone describe the channel between God and the GB? Is it invisible? Is it like a telephone? Can anyone vouch for its existence? What would the evidence be of this?

I can!



*** w13 7/15 p. 3 par. 2 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


2 Through the years, Jehovah’s servants have prayerfully studied Jesus’ prophecy about the last days. They have sought to get a clearer understanding of the timing of the fulfillment of Jesus’ words. To illustrate how our understanding has been clarified, let us consider three “when” questions. When does the “great tribulation” begin? When does Jesus judge “the sheep” and “the goats”? When does Jesus ‘arrive,’ or come?—Matt. 24:21; 25:31-33.



*** w13 7/15 p. 3 par. 3 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


3 For a number of years, we thought



*** w13 7/15 p. 4 par. 4 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***

4 Upon further examination of Jesus’ prophecy, however, we perceived




*** w13 7/15 p. 4 par. 5 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


5 We also discerned that the first part of the great tribulation did not begin in 1914



*** w13 7/15 p. 6 par. 10 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


Previously, we thought that the judging of people as sheep or goats would take place during the entire period of the last days from 1914 onward

 

[katiemygirl]

I can!



*** w13 7/15 p. 3 par. 2 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


2 Through the years, Jehovah’s servants have prayerfully studied Jesus’ prophecy about the last days. They have sought to get a clearer understanding of the timing of the fulfillment of Jesus’ words. To illustrate how our understanding has been clarified, let us consider three “when” questions. When does the “great tribulation” begin? When does Jesus judge “the sheep” and “the goats”? When does Jesus ‘arrive,’ or come?—Matt. 24:21; 25:31-33.



*** w13 7/15 p. 3 par. 3 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


3 For a number of years, we thought



*** w13 7/15 p. 4 par. 4 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***

4 Upon further examination of Jesus’ prophecy, however, we perceived




*** w13 7/15 p. 4 par. 5 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


5 We also discerned that the first part of the great tribulation did not begin in 1914



*** w13 7/15 p. 6 par. 10 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***


Previously, we thought that the judging of people as sheep or goats would take place during the entire period of the last days from 1914 onward

So because they say they prayerfully studied, thought and discerned makes them the sole channel?

Oh say it isn't so brother!

Surely a JW would be better able to answer? How does God communicate with His sole channel, the GB?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Job 34:21 (ESVST) 21 "For his eyes are on the ways of a man, and he sees all his steps.

Psa 33:13-15 (ESVST) 13 The Lord looks down from heaven; he sees all the children of man; 14 from where he sits enthroned he looks out on all the inhabitants of the earth, 15 he who fashions the hearts of them all and observes all their deeds.


Psa 139:1-4 (ESVST) 1 O Lord, you have searched me and known me! 2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. 3 You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways. 4 Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

Luk 12:5-7 (ESVST) ! 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God. 7 Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows.

With just a few verses, it's safe to say that God knows everything that goes on in His creation, even before it happens, He knows. So why then, did it take God and Jesus 5 years to inspect and cleanse the temple?



*** w13 7/15 p. 11 par. 6 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***


6 What is the larger fulfillment of Malachi’s prophecy? During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times. Still, there were numerous religious groups who claimed to be Christ’s followers. So a crucial question needed to be answered: Who among those groups were the wheat? To settle that question, Jesus began to inspect the spiritual temple in 1914. That inspection and cleansing work involved a period of time—from 1914 to the early part of 1919.