Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[JFish123]

In every bible through the ages until the last 50 years or so--the name Jehovah was present at Psalm 83:18--every scholar on earth knows it is fact. The name has been removed from the ot in nearly 6800 spots--every place-GOD-LORD is found,( all capitols) Gods personal name belongs--removed by wicked men who had 0 right, making every translation without the name present in those spots an altered version.

The practice of substituting YHWH for “LORD” was begun by the Jews hundreds of years before Christ. The Jews did not want to pronounce or mispronounce the name of YHWH out of reverence and also lest they violated the commandment that says, "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain," (Exodus 20:7).
So, the Jews began substituting God's name (in Hebrew, "Lord") which is now Adonai. This practice is followed today in English translations of the Bible to show REVERANCE for the Holy Name. Finally, since the early Hebrew text did not contain vowels but only consonants, it is not known exactly how to pronounce God's name. So, LORD is substituted for YHWH.
In the Hebrew Old Testament, the word for “God” is Elohim. God is also called “Lord,” which is a translation of the Hebrew Adonai. However, the special name of God that is given in Exodus 3:14 is YHWH, which is "I AM."
Exodus 3:14, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
The four letters YHWH are called the tetragrammaton and is sometimes written/pronounced Yahweh--a better pronunciation than Jehovah since there is no “j” in Hebrew. But, we cannot be sure what the proper pronunciation really is.
Want to know more? Visit carm.org

 

[Pegg]

Question 2: If this prophecy had a literal initial fulfillment in ancient times, when did Jehovah literally return to dwell there and call it a Faithful City and Holy Mountain?

​

Wasnt it when he restored the Jews to their homeland and reestablished worship at the temple? Yes it was. And the dispersed jews would return year after year to worship for the passover celebration.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Maybe you missed these--Luke 10:16, Hebrews 13:17---

Nope, but I have this.

John 14:25-26 (ESVST) 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Because if you believe the bible--someone else made Jesus' name the name above the rest--the one Jesus said--The Father is greater than I--hallowed be thy( Father) name( Jehovah)

Jesus said that while on earth as a human, not as a resurrected Spirit man. Your Bible says the same thing.

Eph 1: 21 (NWT) 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named,+ not only in this system of things* but also in that to come.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

They are not self appointed--Jesus appointed his real teachers.

Where you there? Did you see it happen? Check your HERITAGE, your HISTORY the foundation of your religion. It started off with C.T. Russell as the slave. You say the GB's old teachings are meaningless because of Proverbs 4:18. Is that really true? I think not!. The JW's teach and preach John 17:3, if that verse is correct, what happens to all the JW's that died believing all the garbage the GB was teaching in previous decades that is no longer true now because of Proverbs 4:18? What happens to them, they didn't have accurate knowledge? What happens to Russell? The GB has completely changed his teachings and said they were false.


*** jv chap. 10 p. 143 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth *** Proclaimers Book 1993
Over a decade later, however, Brother Russell’s wife publicly expressed the idea that Russell himself was the faithful and wise servant. The view that she voiced concerning the identity of the ‘faithful servant’ came to be generally held by the Bible Students for some 30 years. Brother Russell did not reject their view, but he personally avoided making such an application of the text, emphasizing his opposition to the idea of a clergy class commissioned to teach God’s Word in contrast to a lay class that was not thus commissioned. ¬ Did the Spirit fail to direct the Spirit directed organization for 30 years in that it was directed wrongly when it was directed by Russell’s wife?


*** jv chap. 28 p. 626 Testing and Sifting From Within *** Proclaimers Book1993
Many who were sifted out at that time clung to the view that a single individual, Charles Taze Russell, was the “faithful and wise servant” foretold by Jesus at Matthew 24:45-47 (KJ), which servant would distribute spiritual food to the household of faith. Particularly following his death, The Watch Tower itself set forth this view for a number of years. ¬ Was this the truth?

Then it was ALL the anointed on earth.


*** ka chap. 17 p. 346 par. 32 The “Slave” Who Lived to See the “Sign” ***
Since the “slave” of Jesus’ illustration is not just one Christian man but is the anointed congregation of Christ’s disciples, the “faithful and discreet slave” class continued to serve on after the death of C. T. Russell. ¬ 1973 God’s Kingdom Has Approached


*** jv chap. 15 p. 218 Development of the Organization Structure *** Proclaimers Book1993
The Watchtower analysis of theocratic organization showed from the Scriptures that Jehovah appointed Jesus Christ “head of the. . . congregation”; that when Christ as the Master returned, he would entrust his “faithful and discreet slave” with responsibility “over all his belongings”; that this faithful and discreet slave was made up of all those on earth who had been anointed with holy spirit to be joint heirs with Christ and who were unitedly serving under his direction; ¬ Was this the truth?

 

[katiemygirl]

QUESTIONS FOR JW'S

Where in Scripture does it say that Jesus' mediatorship is extended outward from the 144,000 anointed to the great crowd.

Where in Scripture does it say the New Covenant is between God and the 144,000 anointed ONLY?

Where in Scripture does it say that only the 144,000 are in heaven?

BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE --- PLEASE!

 

[katiemygirl]

Wasnt it when he restored the Jews to their homeland and reestablished worship at the temple? Yes it was. And the dispersed jews would return year after year to worship for the passover celebration.

Pegg, You never answered my questions. Here they are again.

Where is the Scripture that says Jesus' mediatorship extends outward from the little flock to the great crowd?

What Scripture says the New Covenant, signed in Jesus' blood, is an agreement between God and the Governing Body ONLY?

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, You never answered my questions. Here they are again.

Where is the Scripture that says Jesus' mediatorship extends outward from the little flock to the great crowd?

Luke 12:32
John 10:16

What Scripture says the New Covenant, signed in Jesus' blood, is an agreement between God and the Governing Body ONLY?

It is an agreement between Jesus and the 144,000 anointed ones. The Governing Body number only 8.... so it involves a lot more then only the Governing body.

Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant,+ in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom+ from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.​

It is these 'called ones' or others verses say those who have the 'heavenly calling' who are in the new covenant:

Romans 8:17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs+ with Christ—provided we suffer together+ so that we may also be glorified together.
Hebrews 3:1 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling...'
Phill 3:14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize+ of the upward call+ of God by means of Christ Jesus.
1Thess 2:12 so that you would go on walking worthily of God,+ who is calling you to his Kingdom+ and glory​

Those who have this 'calling' are numbered in Revelation 14:1

Then I saw, and look! the Lamb+ standing on Mount Zion,+ and with him 144,000+ who have his name and the name of his Father+ written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song+ before the throne and before the four living creatures+ and the elders,+ and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000,+ who have been bought from the earth.

​

Please take the time to really read these scriptures before you discard them.

​

 

[djhwoodwerks]

correct.... but it also means that you are willing to carry his name through public praise as his representative. This is why we call ourselves by his Name. Show me where you can go to find another christian religion who are baptising in the name of Jehovah?

With that statement, you have just proved that Jesus is God! Because the Bible says to baptize in the name of Jesus, not Jehovah! In the "NAME" of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, but what is the "NAME" we are to be baptized with? Jesus said, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but Peter said in the name of Jesus! And I'm pretty sure Peter was there when Jesus told them how to baptize. So, did Peter not understand what Jesus was saying and in turn deceiving the men he was talking to?

Mat 28:18-19 (ESVST) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Act 2:37-38 (ESVST) 38 And Peter said to them, " Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,

 

[james2ko]

Wasnt it when he restored the Jews to their homeland and reestablished worship at the temple? Yes it was. And the dispersed jews would return year after year to worship for the passover celebration.

No. Jerusalem was never called or known as "The City of Truth" (Zec 8:3) at any time during their history. Additionally, the prophecy of Zec 8 contains parallels to Zec 2:

Zec 2:11 "Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me [Jesus] to you. 12 And the LORD will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem.

Zec 8:3 "Thus says the LORD: 'I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem.
Zec 8:21 The inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, "Let us continue to go and pray before the LORD, And seek the LORD of hosts. I myself will go also."
Zec 8:22 Yes, many peoples and strong nations Shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, And to pray before the LORD.'
Zec 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." ' "​

When did Jesus ever take possession and inherit Judah? Never! This is obviously referring to His second coming when He literally returns to the earth and His feet touch the Mount of Olives (Zec 14:4); become the possessor and inheritor of all the earth (Zec 14:9; Rev 11:15) and dwell amongst His people (Zec 2:11;8:3)!!.

His law will go forth from Jerusalem (Isa 2:3: Mic 4:2) and cover the entire earth (Isa 11:9) and nations' representatives will have to come up to Jerusalem to worship Him and keep the Feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain (Zec 14:16-17).

It's all perfectly logical and no symbolism required. According to scripture, the WT does not have the proper understanding of the kingdom of God, hence they cannot be God's exclusive body! Although I do not doubt He is using your organization in some way to lead the lost to Him. So the question still goes unanswered. You didn't even attempt to address the second question. That's ok. I'll give you time to ask your MS or elder.

 

[Pegg]

No. Jerusalem was never called or known as "The City of Truth" (Zec 8:3) at any time during their history. Additionally, the prophecy of Zec 8 contains parallels to Zec 2:

Jesus was not named Emmanuel even though the prophet Isiah said that his name would be ... Isaiah 7:14 Therefore Jehovah* himself will give YOU men a sign: Look! The maiden*+ herself will actually become pregnant,+and she is giving birth to a son,+ and she will certainly call his name Im·manʹu·el
does that mean Jesus is not the Messiah?

Just showing here that these expressions found in the prophesies do not have to literally be used for them to be true. Jerusalem was the only place where the worship of the true God was carried out in all the earth. In that sense, we can certainly say it was the city of truth.

But im not getting into controversy with you, you believe in a literal fulfillment and we dont. So obviously we will have different interpretations.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Luke 12:32
John 10:16



It is an agreement between Jesus and the 144,000 anointed ones. The Governing Body number only 8.... so it involves a lot more then only the Governing body.

Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant,+ in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom+ from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.​

It is these 'called ones' or others verses say those who have the 'heavenly calling' who are in the new covenant:

Romans 8:17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs+ with Christ—provided we suffer together+ so that we may also be glorified together.
Hebrews 3:1 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling...'
Phill 3:14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize+ of the upward call+ of God by means of Christ Jesus.
1Thess 2:12 so that you would go on walking worthily of God,+ who is calling you to his Kingdom+ and glory​

Those who have this 'calling' are numbered in Revelation 14:1

Then I saw, and look! the Lamb+ standing on Mount Zion,+ and with him 144,000+ who have his name and the name of his Father+ written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song+ before the throne and before the four living creatures+ and the elders,+ and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000,+ who have been bought from the earth.

​

Please take the time to really read these scriptures before you discard them.

​

I don't understand how JW's reason. It seems as though you believe that all the letters the apostles wrote were to only a select few people. That is not the case.

Heb 10:9-10 (ESVST) 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. {Not just a few anointed ones but for "ALL"}

1Co 1:2 (ESVST) 2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

2Co 1:1-2 (ESVST) To the church of God that is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Achaia: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:2-5 (ESVST) To the churches of Galatia: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Phi 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

1Th 1:1 (ESVST) 1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.

And on and on. What they wrote is to every member of God's church, not just a few men.

 

[katiemygirl]

"Pegg, post: 4367457, member: 23994"]Luke 12:32
John 10:16

Luke 12:32 “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.

John 10:16 "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."

Where in these two verses you quoted does it say Jesus'mediatorship extends outward from the 144,000 anointed JW's to the rank and file JW's by association.

It is an agreement between Jesus and the 144,000 anointed ones. The Governing Body number only 8.... so it involves a lot more then only the Governing body.

The agreement is not between Jesus and the anointed. Jesus' role is mediator. HE is the go between. The agreement is between God and ALL people whether Jew or Gentile. ALL are commanded to be a part of the New Covenant (Titus 2:11-14). Jesus set the terms of the New Covenant by telling ALL men to be “born again” of “water and the spirit” (John 3:3-5; Mark 16:15-16)

Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant,+ in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom+ from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.​

It is these 'called ones' or others verses say those who have the 'heavenly calling' who are in the new covenant:

Romans 8:17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs+ with Christ—provided we suffer together+ so that we may also be glorified together.
Hebrews 3:1 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling...'
Phill 3:14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize+ of the upward call+ of God by means of Christ Jesus.
1Thess 2:12 so that you would go on walking worthily of God,+ who is calling you to his Kingdom+ and glory​

What these verses say is absolutely true. The problem YOU are having is PROVING who the "called" are. Can you prove with Scripture that the 144,000 is a literal number? Unless you can prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt, then it is really just your opinion.

Those who have this 'calling' are numbered in Revelation 14:1

Then I saw, and look! the Lamb+ standing on Mount Zion,+ and with him 144,000+ who have his name and the name of his Father+ written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song+ before the throne and before the four living creatures+ and the elders,+ and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000,+ who have been bought from the earth.​

Please prove the 144,000 to be the literal number of those called out.

​

Please take the time to really read these scriptures before you discard them.

​

I promise you I did take the time to read each passage slowly and carefully.

I did not see in any of the verses you posted where it says the New Covenant is between God and the 144,000 ONLY. So I'll ask again.

What Scripture says the New Covenant, signed in Jesus' blood, is an agreement between God and the 144,000 ONLY?

 

[averageJOE]

Luke 10:16--- one had better accept Jesus' anointed teachers. If they reject them, its like rejecting Jesus and God as well. A JW doesn't feel the GB are Jesus' appointed teachers-we know 100% for sure they are.

Prove it.

That is simple--there is but a single test--by learning and applying every teaching Jesus gave--I did that--and its 100% for sure the JW teachers are correct.

LOL
Do you need a list of dates that the GB were wrong about. (Let's just say that they are wrong 100% of the time)

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Prove it.

LOL
Do you need a list of dates that the GB were wrong about. (Let's just say that they are wrong 100% of the time)

And JW's, saying that the old teachings of the GB are obsolete because of "NEW LIGHT", we could say the same of the old Testament. Jesus brought "NEW LIGHT" into the world, but did not discard the older teachings of the prophets. The decades of the GB's teachings are your heritage, your history, your foundation, it is part of who the JW's are. The GB only wants to discard them because they were wrong. Do you actually believe that if they had taught something right it would have been discarded? I guarantee you, there is going to be "NEW LIGHT" about 1914 pretty soon because the GB is running out of time with that generation!

Sorry Joe, didn't mean to highjack your post, lol!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jesus was not named Emmanuel even though the prophet Isiah said that his name would be ... Isaiah 7:14 Therefore Jehovah* himself will give YOU men a sign: Look! The maiden*+ herself will actually become pregnant,+and she is giving birth to a son,+ and she will certainly call his name Im·manʹu·el
does that mean Jesus is not the Messiah?

Just showing here that these expressions found in the prophesies do not have to literally be used for them to be true. Jerusalem was the only place where the worship of the true God was carried out in all the earth. In that sense, we can certainly say it was the city of truth.

But im not getting into controversy with you, you believe in a literal fulfillment and we dont. So obviously we will have different interpretations.

It's true that Jesus being called Immanuel is symbolic and not literal. It was actually being prophesied that Jesus is God!

 

[katiemygirl]

I don't understand how JW's reason. It seems as though you believe that all the letters the apostles wrote were to only a select few people. That is not the case.

Heb 10:9-10 (ESVST) 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. {Not just a few anointed ones but for "ALL"}

1Co 1:2 (ESVST) 2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

2Co 1:1-2 (ESVST) To the church of God that is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Achaia: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:2-5 (ESVST) To the churches of Galatia: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Phi 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

1Th 1:1 (ESVST) 1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.

And on and on. What they wrote is to every member of God's church, not just a few men.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

 

[kjw47]

Why should I look them up? Are you not His witness?



Right. She said there was an OT literal fulfillment. Then I punched a huge hole in her answer with several questions she refused to answer. Are you going to answer them or are we going to chalk up yet another embarrassing refutation of the "one and only" GB?

I am in like 8 of these sights--I don't have time to look up information like that--you seek the answer--you can look it up. I type withj 1 finger as well. it takes me hours everyday to complete all I need to do already.
JW.org is very simple top use.

 

[kjw47]

It's true that Jesus being called Immanuel is symbolic and not literal. It was actually being prophesied that Jesus is God!

God cannot die--Jesus died. you are in error.

 

[katiemygirl]

I am in like 8 of these sights--I don't have time to look up information like that--you seek the answer--you can look it up. I type withj 1 finger as well. it takes me hours everyday to complete all I need to do already.
JW.org is very simple top use.

That is a problem, and very unfair to other posters! It seems you drop by here every now and again and never really answer questions. I have responded to many of your posts, and put great effort into doing so, only to have you never respond. That may be because you are on eight different forums. It seems very unfair that you just pop in when the mood hits, drop your little bombs (false teachings) and simply disappear when someone refutes your doctrine. Why not give up some of your forums and start being a little more sincere with those of us who respond to your posts?