Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Pegg]

It doesn't matter what the history of something is but what the individual does with it. I'll just imagine that there were people who celebrated their birthdays a thousand years ago with worshipping a false God, getting drunk, having sex, and killing people. Does that make it evil?

it makes it something inspired by the devil.

He has introduced mankind to numerous things which oppose the righteous standards of God. If we can't see them for what they are and from who they were inspired by, then we have a serious spiritual problem.

I

No, it makes what they did evil. If someone living today or even a thousand tears ago celebrates their birthday with family and having a cake by being on earth another year doesn't make it bad like he's worshipping the devil.
No guilt by association. Just like Christmas or Easter. Say my grandfather worshipped Zues on a day of the year. I'm like no that's wrong so I'm going to on that day turn it to worshipping the one true God. Am I evil or celebrating an evil day? Of course not. I'm taking a day used for evil and turning it to good for Gods glory in remembrance of Him. And yes, everyday should be that, but taking a day to honor God even more by remembering his sacrifice etc... Is not evil but quite the opposite.

Ok, i understand what you are saying. But lets think of it this way....

If Satan introduces mankind to a particular custom with the intention of deliberately offending God, do you think God would be happy to see his people use that same custom to praise him (birthdays do nothing to praise God btw, im just using it as an example) ?

If you looked in to the history of the birthday custom, what did you find out about it?

 

[JayJayDee]

When is a birthday a religious celebration? A birthday is not identifying, or edifying someone as God or above God. It's merely a celebratory instance of being here on Gods earth another year.

Pagans who practised astrology used birth dates to cast horoscopes. This is why no birth dates are recorded in the scriptures for any worshipper of the true God. Only pagans practiced such things. When Israel fell away to false religious practices, God punished them. Will he accept them now?

Did you never wonder about the birthday "wishes" and the candles on the birthday cake? All have to do with spiritism.
God's people were forbidden to practice any of the ways of the nations. No spiritistic practice was allowed in Israel.

The ancients used the phrase "son of..." To indicate likeness or sameness of nature and equality of being. Hence, when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, His Jewish contemporaries fully understood that He was making a claim to be God in an unqualified sense.

Since that phrase was used of angels and also of Adam, I don't think you have that quite right....unless of course angels and Adam were claiming to be God?

From the earliest days of Christianity, the phrase "Son of God" was understood to be fully equivalent to God. This is why, when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, the Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God." (John 17:9).
Recognizing that Jesus was identifying Himself as God, the Jews wanted to put Him to death for committing blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16).

Just because the Jews accused him of blasphemy, doesn't mean he was guilty. Claiming to be God whilst at the same time directing all worship to the Father "alone" would have been a bit confusing don't you think? He never once claimed equality with his God and Father. Please show me one direct statement where he did.

And Jesus was the Son before his life on earth in many ways including speaking as the Son of God (John 8:54-56), and asserting His eternal preexistence before Abraham (verse 58).

Yes, Jesus was the son of God before he came to earth. Kindly show me where Jesus ever claimed to be God Almighty or to have existed for eternity. In John 8:58, Jesus is stating how long he has been alive. He existed before Abraham was even born. Yet Rev calls him "the beginning of the creation by God". (Rev 3:14)
"Monogenes" means an only child in every sense of the word. He is "begotten" by his Father. Can God be begotten?

I have often heard it said that Jesus claimed to be "I Am", as proof that he was claiming deity.
God's name does not mean "I Am". Yahweh (Jehovah) is the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wahʹ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”.

Do you know how many times Jesus said "I am" without once claiming to be God?
Matt10:16; 11:10, 29; 18:20; 20:22; 23:34; 26:38; 28:20. (That is just in Matthew)

Finally, it is interesting to observe that the early Christians who had a solidly Jewish background, did not hesitate to refer to Jesus as Lord and God (Romans 10:13, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 1 Peter 2:3, 3:15). Indeed, despite their commitment to Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4, they had no scruple about applying to Jesus many Old Testament texts that were originally written in reference to YHWY. For example:
In Revelation 1:7 Jesus is seen to be the pierced Yahweh who is described in Zechariah 12:10.
The reference to Yahweh and Elohim in Isaiah 40:3 is seen to be fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ in Mark 1:2-4.
Calling upon Yahweh in Joel 2:32 is seen as identical and parellel to calling upon Jesus in Romans 10:13.
The glory of Yahweh in Isaiah 6:1-5 is said to be the glory of Jesus in John 12:41.
Yahweh's voice "like the roar of rushing waters" (Ezekiel 43:2) is identical to Jesus' voice "like the sound of rushing waters" (Revelation 1:15).
The description of Yahweh as an everlasting light in Isaiah 60:19-20 is seen as identical to the statement about Jesus as an everlasting light in Revelation 21:23.
There are dozens of these but I wanted to make this post not too big.

None of those reference state that Jesus is Yahweh. It is read into the text to support the trinity.

Jesus is "the son of God"....a created, begotten god-like being whose divine nature is not in dispute. But placing the son on equal footing with the Father is a breaking of the first commandment.

Referring to God by the title "LORD" instead of using the divine name as it was in the OT, has led Christendom into a grave error. They do not discern the difference between the Sovereign Lord Jehovah (Most High over all the earth". Psalm 83:18) and the Lord Jesus, who was sent forth by him.

In John 17:3, Jesus himself refers to his Father as "the only true God", without including himself. There is more scripture that shows Jesus is inferior and subservient to his God than there is to support any equality.

Even after his return to heaven, Jesus still referrred to his Father as "my God" (Rev 3:12) How can God, have a God?

 

[JayJayDee]

1. We are to have no part in the world, true, but that by no means says we shouldn't try to make it better, including in politics.

According to John, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19) This is his world, so we have nothing to do with its politics or its aims and aspirations. Did Jesus ever attempt to right the wrongs of the political situation in his day? The Roman Empire was oppressing his own people, yet he did nothing to stop them. He allowed that government to be used by the Jews to put Jesus to death. Christians were told to obey the governments in all things, except when they tried to make them disobey God.

2. In war, if you see someone being hurt or slaughtered and gave the ability to help and don't, that's also sin. Wouldn't you fight to help stop Hitler? If not, Say goodbye to the Jewish people.

No, I would not take up arms to fight anyone. How can you "love your enemy" with a gun or a bomb or a missile?
Where is the sanction to kill innocents, which is so common with the indiscriminate use of today's weapons?
Would God have sanctioned the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Seriously?
Helping someone in the event of a personal attack is a whole lot different to supporting the governments in their slaughter of thousands, including innocent women and children. We cannot have blood on our hands. (Isa1:15; 2 Pet 3:13, 14)

3. What does Christendom have that's unbiblical? The prosperity gospel is unbiblical but that's not Christian, so what is it?

The whole core of their beliefs is unscriptural. From their foundation doctrine of the trinity (a Catholic adoption from the fourth century) to belief in a hell of eternal flames for the wicked....to the belief that there is an invisible part of man that departs the body at death....to adoption of the cross as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice. None of these are Bible teachings, yet they are universally accepted by the whole of Christendom to a greater or lesser extent. Their festivals and celebrations are not found in the scriptures either. Everything is based on falsehood.

4. We should all be united but most of the Christian churches are united in their foundation of biblical doctrine that Jesus set forth.

Their "unity" is based on a false set of beliefs. None of those doctrines were taught by Jesus. And the churches will never unite...their difference are too numerous.

What do you believe the command in Revelation 18:4, 5 means?

 

[james2ko]

i dont know how many astrologers there were tbh, im just repeating popular opinion.

Repeating popular opinion is not a wise thing to do, when your every word is being scrutinized

 

[JFish123]

According to John, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19) This is his world, so we have nothing to do with its politics or its aims and aspirations. Did Jesus ever attempt to right the wrongs of the political situation in his day? The Roman Empire was oppressing his own people, yet he did nothing to stop them. He allowed that government to be used by the Jews to put Jesus to death. Christians were told to obey the governments in all things, except when they tried to make them disobey God.



No, I would not take up arms to fight anyone. How can you "love your enemy" with a gun or a bomb or a missile?
Where is the sanction to kill innocents, which is so common with the indiscriminate use of today's weapons?
Would God have sanctioned the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Seriously?
Helping someone in the event of a personal attack is a whole lot different to supporting the governments in their slaughter of thousands, including innocent women and children. We cannot have blood on our hands. (Isa1:15; 2 Pet 3:13, 14)



The whole core of their beliefs is unscriptural. From their foundation doctrine of the trinity (a Catholic adoption from the fourth century) to belief in a hell of eternal flames for the wicked....to the belief that there is an invisible part of man that departs the body at death....to adoption of the cross as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice. None of these are Bible teachings, yet they are universally accepted by the whole of Christendom to a greater or lesser extent. Their festivals and celebrations are not found in the scriptures either. Everything is based on falsehood.



Their "unity" is based on a false set of beliefs. None of those doctrines were taught by Jesus. And the churches will never unite...their difference are too numerous.

What do you believe the command in Revelation 18:4, 5 means?

First, the words "only begotten" do not mean that Christ was created (as the heretic Arius taught). Rather they mean that He was "unique," "specially blessed," or "favored." Theologian John F. Walvoord in his classic book "Jesus Christ our Lord" rightly points out:
"The thought is clearly that Christ is the begotten of God in the sense that no other is."
Scholar Benjamin Warfield likewise comments: "the adjective 'only begotten' conveys the idea, not of derivation and subordination, but of uniqueness and consubstantiality: Jesus is all that God is, and He alone is this."
Now the Trinity. Some JW think the trinity is unbiblical as the word is not found in the bible. But that doesn't make it unbiblical as the name Jehovah is not found in any legitimate Hebrew or Greek manuscript. The word was formed by superstitious Jewish scribes who joined the consonants YHWY with the vowels do Adonai. The result was Yahowah, or Jehovah.
So what about it being a pagan concept? By no means! The pagans taught the concept of a flood that killed most of humankind and the concept of a messiah like figure named Tammuz who was allegedly resurrected. Are those concepts false just because pagans taught remotely similar accounts?
The Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods in a pantheon of other gods. But these triads constituted three separate gods (polytheism) which is utterly different from the doctrine of the trinity-which maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one godhead.
Think of a triangle...

There are three points but it is still one triangle. One God. The Trinity permeates throughout the Bible as here are a few examples....
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded be addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes if deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Hy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All there have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each us called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can annoy one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
The there were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.

 

[kjw47]

Yes. It is believed by them that the Holy Spirit directs them. Does the HS direct them silently?
I don't mean do they hear voices. Rev says to listen. I know they do not listen. They unravel the meaning of scripture by reasoning on it. If they were listening to the spirit they could not make a mistake about what it says. Yes?

wrong---- they give spiritual food at the proper time= when God wills a truth known-progressive. until God wills it known, not even they know it. especially these that were hidden-Daniel 12:4

 

[kjw47]

Lol, you will die in your sins. Read the whole chapter of Romans not just 2 verses

Gods word has promised--the ones( anointed) taken to heaven during the tribulation and the ones brought through Har-mageddon--will never taste death.

 

[Desert Snake]

Who was the writer of the book of Job?

Job.

 

[kjw47]

A question is not prophecy.

ALL mankind are imperfect. Not one writer of the Bible got it wrong! Only false teachers, teaching their on opinions do.

Some truths were hidden until these last days--thatmeans every teacher got them wrong because they were hidden( until God willed them revealed) so its 100% obvious--Gods real teachers have made corrections here in these last days to make this trutrh-Daniel 12:4-- and this John 4:22-24 could not be accomplished without corrections being made to those hidden truths.

 

[kjw47]

KJW47
So you don't believe Adam and Eve died spiritually the day they disobeyed God?

You never answered my question. In Eph. 2, Paul says, "He made us alive." He's speaking past tense. Doesn't one have to be dead first in order to be made alive?

And you believe that when God said, "In the day you eat....you will surely die," God is using the word DAY figuratively?

Everytime the word DAY is used in the Bible, is it used figuratively? Does it always mean 1000 years? How do you know when to apply literal or figurative?

What in Genesis has told you that God meant DAY in this passage to mean 1000 years?

Adam lived to over 900 years old--that is the proof--he did not die on the day he ate of that tree.

No one was made alive, until Jesus sacrifice was accomplished. That is what made one alive--but there are many requirements on the humans part to actually be made alive.

 

[katiemygirl]

Adam lived to over 900 years old--that is the proof--he did not die on the day he ate of that tree.7v

No one was made alive, until Jesus sacrifice was accomplished. That is what made one alive--but there are many requirements on the humans part to actually be made alive.

Yes, the shed blood of Jesus makes one alive.

If Jesus makes one alive, what were they prior to being made alive? Are they not dead in their sins, as the Scripture says? What kind of dead were they?

Please reread my post and then address the questions. If you cannot, I understand.

Here it is again. The questions I asked are in red.

So you don't believe Adam and Eve died spiritually the day they disobeyed God?

You never answered my question. In Eph. 2, Paul says, "He made us alive." He's speaking past tense. Doesn't one have to be dead first in order to be made alive?

And you believe that when God said, "In the day you eat....you will surely die," God is using the word DAY figuratively?

Everytime the word DAY is used in the Bible, is it used figuratively? Does it always mean 1000 years? How do you know when to apply literal or figurative?

What in Genesis has told you that God meant DAY in this passage to mean 1000 years?

 

[savagewind]

wrong---- they give spiritual food at the proper time= when God wills a truth known-progressive. until God wills it known, not even they know it. especially these that were hidden-Daniel 12:4

Interesting. It seems to me God wills knowledge to demons before people. WHY??????????

 

[katiemygirl]

ARE BIRTHDAY CELEBRATIONS PAGAN?

Hmmmm, I did a little research about whether birthday parties are pagan in origin.

If celebrating birthdays is pagan, then Abraham didn't get the memo because he threw a big ole birthday party for Isaac the day he turned three.

It was customary to do this when a child was weaned at age 3.

Genesis 21:8 reads, “Now the child kept growing and came to be weaned; and Abraham then prepared a big feast on the day of Isaac’s being weaned.”

When you look at the cross reference for Gen.21:8, you are brought to 1 Samuel 1:22.

This verse speaks about when Samuel was weaned. Then after the word “weaned” in this verse there is a reference that refers you to 2 Chronicles 31:16.

This verse reads,
“Apart from their genealogical enrollment of the males from three years of age upward, of all those coming to the house of Jehovah as a daily matter of course, for their service by their obligations according to their divisions.”

By referring to these verses we learn that a child was weaned at the age of three. Thus Abraham had a large birthday party for Isaac on the very day he was three years old, which proves that birthday parties are not “pagan” or forbidden by Yahweh like the Watchtower teaches.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jesus received gifts from pagan astrologers (magi) as it was their custom to give gifts to royal children. They saw "his star" and followed it. They were from Babylon (the East) and astrology was forbidden in Israel under penalty of death. (Deut 18:9-12) You think God sent the star? Why would he? He had already announced the birth of Jesus to Jewish shepherds by a chorus of angels.....why do so to pagan astrologers by a means he condemned?

Jesus was not a newborn when they arrived at the "house" where they found him. They were dupes used by the devil in an attempt to destroy the Christ child. Why would God guide these pagans to an enemy he knew would try to kill his son? Or was God completely unaware of Herod's intentions? The death of the infants at Herod's command fulfilled a prophesy concerning a woman grieving for her children. (Matt 2:16-18)



No...have you?
Even Jesus did not know what God had placed in his own jurisdiction at that time.
Funny how "God" can withhold information from himself.....pray to himself.....and worship himself, even after his return to heaven?

Since Jesus told his disciples to "keep on the watch" (Matt 24:42-44) because we do not know the "day or hour" when the judgment would come, there is a good reason why he would tell us the season, by certain signs, but not the actual time. (Matt 24:32, 33) He wants people to be prepared, in peace and obedient, in spite what the world Is doing. (2 Pet 3:14-16)

Unless we are prepared, like Noah was for the end time...it will overtake us too. We have kept on the watch, just as Jesus told us too. Christendom, I believe, is asleep.

So, why has the GB of the JW's have a 100 years of false prophecy if no one will know the day or hour? Why do they even try to figure it out? They are and have just taught their opinion as a truth that all JW's are commanded to accept as truth, or be shunned.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

According to John, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19) This is his world, so we have nothing to do with its politics or its aims and aspirations. Did Jesus ever attempt to right the wrongs of the political situation in his day? The Roman Empire was oppressing his own people, yet he did nothing to stop them. He allowed that government to be used by the Jews to put Jesus to death. Christians were told to obey the governments in all things, except when they tried to make them disobey God.

You are correct, Jesus did nothing to right the wrongs of the political situation in His day. What did He say was His "PURPOSE" of coming was? He came for one purpose, and one purpose only. He came to give His life a ransom to bring the world back to God, that was His only reason for being here. Jesus said, they are "IN" the world, but they are "NOT OF THE" world. There is no way to be "IN" the world and be no "PART" of the world. With every dollar you spend you are supplying the greed of the world. Satan isn't just in politics, he is in every institution that is greedy. You buy gas for your car, in my opinion there is no one else as greedy as the oil companies. To be "NO PART" of the world you would have to leave the world. What do you think the world would be like if every office, every business, every institution was controlled by a JW? If God had His people active in every part of satans domain, what would the world be like? Jesus said that "ALL" authority and power was given to Him. If He is the Head and the church is His body, where is that power and authority directed? God gave mankind authority and dominion over the earth, why do some religions believe we are to sit back and let satan rule this world? Didn't Jesus say He defeated satan? Don't you think God wants His people to take the world back?

 

[katiemygirl]

You are correct, Jesus did nothing to right the wrongs of the political situation in His day. What did He say was His "PURPOSE" of coming was? He came for one purpose, and one purpose only. He came to give His life a ransom to bring the world back to God, that was His only reason for being here. Jesus said, they are "IN" the world, but they are "NOT OF THE" world. There is no way to be "IN" the world and be no "PART" of the world. With every dollar you spend you are supplying the greed of the world. Satan isn't just in politics, he is in every institution that is greedy. You buy gas for your car, in my opinion there is no one else as greedy as the oil companies. To be "NO PART" of the world you would have to leave the world. What do you think the world would be like if every office, every business, every institution was controlled by a JW? If God had His people active in every part of satans domain, what would the world be like? Jesus said that "ALL" authority and power was given to Him. If He is the Head and the church is His body, where is that power and authority directed? God gave mankind authority and dominion over the earth, why do some religions believe we are to sit back and let satan rule this world? Didn't Jesus say He defeated satan? Don't you think God wants His people to take the world back?

God wants us to take the world back by letting our light shine. He doesn't want us to do it with politics, wars or force.

Edit - I would add scaring people to that list.

We are to be the salt of the earth!

 

[savagewind]

So, why has the GB of the JW's have a 100 years of false prophecy if no one will know the day or hour? Why do they even try to figure it out? They are and have just taught their opinion as a truth that all JW's are commanded to accept as truth, or be shunned.

Many people have said, it is because "the end is near" is a scare tactic to get people believing the Jehovah's Witness way, even though it is written "he who would save his soul (by whatever means - like becoming a JW) will lose it". And that "cowards will not inherit God's Kingdom".

If you examine the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses when the claim was made each time you might find that their recruiting was slowing down.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Adam lived to over 900 years old--that is the proof--he did not die on the day he ate of that tree.

No one was made alive, until Jesus sacrifice was accomplished. That is what made one alive--but there are many requirements on the humans part to actually be made alive.

You're correct, no one was made alive, physically, because there was not a resurrection. So what did Paul mean when he said we "WERE DEAD" in our trespasses? They were still alive or they couldn't be talking, right?

Eph 2:3-6 (ESVST) 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,


Having been "BURIED" with Him in baptism. No one dies and is buried physically, but spiritually. And raised, spiritually through faith to live as a new creature. Old things have passed away, behold all things have become new.

Col 2:11-14 (ESVST) , 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands.

What is the record of debt that stood against us with it's legal demands? "SIN"

2Co 7:2 (ESVST) 2 Make room in your hearts for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one.

How could Paul say that? Didn't he persecute the church? Didn't he murder Christians? Didn't he throw Christians in prison? How could he say he wronged no one?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Many people have said, it is because "the end is near" is a scare tactic to get people believing the Jehovah's Witness way, even though it is written "he who would save his soul (by whatever means - like becoming a JW) will lose it". And that "cowards will not inherit God's Kingdom".

If you examine the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses when the claim was made each time you might find that their recruiting was slowing down.

Exactly SW! That's why all they preach on the street is "THE END IS NEAR" to scare people into listening to them and then they promise them peace and safety on paradise earth. They know if they preach Jesus and Him crucified like the Apostles did, no one would listen to them. So they prey on the fears of people.

 

[katiemygirl]

You're correct, no one was made alive, physically, because there was not a resurrection. So what did Paul mean when he said we "WERE DEAD" in our trespasses? They were still alive or they couldn't be talking, right?

Eph 2:3-6 (ESVST) 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,


Having been "BURIED" with Him in baptism. No one dies and is buried physically, but spiritually. And raised, spiritually through faith to live as a new creature. Old things have passed away, behold all things have become new.

Col 2:11-14 (ESVST) , 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands.

What is the record of debt that stood against us with it's legal demands? "SIN"

2Co 7:2 (ESVST) 2 Make room in your hearts for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one.

How could Paul say that? Didn't he persecute the church? Didn't he murder Christians? Didn't he throw Christians in prison? How could he say he wronged no one?

I guarantee my questions in red will not be answered. Neither will yours. They will be glossed/glazed over, but will never be truly seen.