If Jesus is indeed The Word but you ignore his words, then Jesus is dead to you. I am not Jesus. But like that, if you ignore my words, then I am dead to you. You have killed me.
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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
Oops forgot lol
You mean The Bible is not a Religion? I made a thread about that.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Would you mind addressing your comment to a particular person so we know who you are responding to?
Precious! Your timing is impeccable.
First, The Holy Spirit is a person. It is recognized that the three primary attributes of personality are mind, emotions, and will. A "force" does not have these attributes. However the Holy Soirit does.
The Holy Spirit has a Mind:
This is made clear in a number of passages. For example, the Holy Spirits intellect is seen in 1 Corinthians 2:10, where we are told that "the Spirit searches everything" (compare with Isaiah 11:2, Ephesians 1:17). The Greek word for "searches" means to thoroughly investigate a matter. The Holy Spirit investigates the things of God and makes these matters known to believers. Note that Jesus once told a group of Jews, "you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life." (John 5:39) The Lord used the same Greek word there that is used in 1 Corinthians 2:10. We are also told in 1 Corinthians 2:11 that the Holy Spirit KNOWS the thoughts of God. How can the Spirit know the things of God if it doesn't have a mind? A Force does not know things. Thought processes require the presence of a mind.
The Holy Spirit has Emotions:
Like before, it is clear in a number of verses but for example, in Ephesians 4:30 we are admonished, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of a God." Grief is an emotion, and emotions cannot be experienced by a force. Grief is something one feels. To illustrate my point, it is noteworthy that the Corinthian believers experienced SORROW after the Apostle Paul wrote them a stern letter (2 Corinthians 2:2,5). There we see the same Greek word that is used in Ephesians 4:30 (translated as grieve). Just as the Corinthian believers experienced sorrow and grief, so the person of the Holy Spirit can experience sorrow and grief.
The Holy Spirit has a Will:
We are told in 1 Corinthians 12:11 that the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts "to each one individually AS HE WILLS. The phrase "He Wills" translates from the Greek word bouletai, which refers to "decisions of the will after previous deliberation." The Holy Spirit makes a Sovereign choice regarding what spiritual gifts each respective Christian receives. It is also noteworthy that the same Greek word used to describe the Holy Spirits will is used to describe Jehovah Gods will in James 1:18. The last key example is found in Acts 16:6 where the Holy Spirit forbids Paul to preach in Asia and them redirects him to minister in Europe.
Also, if that's not enough, the Holy Spirit confirms His personality as He:
Teaching believers (John 14:26)
Testifies about Christ (John 15:26)
Guides believers (Romans 8:14)
Commissions people (Acts 13:4)
Issues commands (Acts 8:29)
He restrains sin (Genesis 6:3)
Intercedes or prays (Romans 8:26)
He speaks to people (John 15:26, and 2 Peter 1:21)
So how do you reconcile what the Watchtower says that the Holy Spirit is just a force when the Word of God says the Spirit can do things that only a person can do such as pray for believers, speak to people, issue commands, bear witness, and teach people?
And (won't go into detail as long enough post already) the Holy Spirit is treated as a person as He can...
Be grieved (Ephesians 4:30)
Can be blasphemed (Matthew 12:32)
-quick study shows that the Father and Son can Also be blasphemed just like the Holy Spirit.
Can be lied to (Acts 5:3)
Can be obeyed (Acts 13;2)
Is sent (John 14:26)
Finally here's a brief conversation with a JW:
Christian: Do you believe Satan is a spiritual person?
JW: Yes.
Christian: Do you believe satan is a person because he has the qualifying attributes of a person?
JW: I suppose do but what do you mean?
Christian: would you agree that in order to qualify as a person, one must be able to think, act, communicate and have a will?
JW: Yes, satan can do all those things.
Christian: then why don't you believe the Holy Spirit is a person as the Bible teaches He has all the attributes of a person?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
They taught a fasle prophecy for 100 years! How can you compare that to wheat? You can't say anything to justify that.
I do not know why he calls lying weeds wheat.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
if thats the case, why does he have some believing in a hellfire, others believing in a rapture, others purgatory, trinity, eternal souls....why all these different beliefs if God is directing them all?
That simply cannot be true. The house is too divided for it to be of God.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Post 2712 was not a floating comment.
The post cited in it was obviously the subject of the comment.
I merely feel that you guys (and ladies) are going to the other extreme in your criticisms.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
would you have sacrificed anything for the 12 apostles if you were living then?
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
You have a point there, for that is what Paul pointed to at 1 Corinthians 11:19
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
WT 2004 May 1st Page 11 pg 14 -15
14 How does Jehovah speak to us? Consider Jeremiah again. Since Jeremiah was a prophet, Jehovah communicated directly with him. Jeremiah describes the effect of God’s words on his heart: “Your words were found, and I proceeded to eat them; and your word becomes to me the exultation and the rejoicing of my heart; for your name has been called upon me, O Jehovah God of armies.” (Jeremiah 15:16) Yes, Jeremiah delighted in the fact that God’s name had been called upon him, and His words were precious to the prophet. Hence, like the apostle Paul, Jeremiah was eager to declare the message entrusted to him.—Romans 1:15, 16.
15 Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today. However, we do have God’s words in the pages of the Bible. Hence, if we have a serious approach to our study of the Bible and meditate deeply on what we learn, God’s words will become “the exultation and the rejoicing” of our heart too.
15 Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today. However, we do have God’s words in the pages of the Bible. Hence, if we have a serious approach to our study of the Bible and meditate deeply on what we learn, God’s words will become “the exultation and the rejoicing” of our heart too.
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She can not see my post. I am dead to her.
Interesting that they know that even though Revelations says HEAR.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
It also is contrary to what Jesus said his followers should be at John 17:20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one,+ just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you,+ that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.
why are there over 30 thousand different denominations? Because christians are not in union with God or Christ. There has been a deviation from the bible and the teachings it contains.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
You go to great length to put another face on these things which all are true because God himself is in the holy spirit, he being it's mind, he being it's emotions, and he being it's will.
So then you say,"Also, if that's not enough, the Holy Spirit confirms His personality as He"
Why wouldn't it? It is after-all the One True God working through it and none of those qualities originate with the holy spirit of it's own self. It has not got an independent will from God as it is his will. How else do you think it holds the fruits of God's character in it as are mentioned at Galatians 5:22-23?
Now something that has not a will of it's own nor a mind of it's own nor emotions of it's own, is not a person.
It is something being used by a person.
Added: If you will note it closely, the holy spirit is able to be vexed because it is God's spirit being vexed when we resist his helping us. That is not such a foreign idea to us.
When I truly wish to help anyone I put my spirit into it. In other words I roll the fruits of love and joy and patience and all that might be encouraging to them into my efforts to help them.
It is important that we focus on that spirit because in imitating that spirit in our own spirit we gradually are transformed to the image of God.
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djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
So now you're comparing the GB to the Apostles?