Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[djhwoodwerks]

*** w11 7/15 p. 16 par. 8 Will You Heed Jehovah’s Clear Warnings? ***
8 No matter what false teachers may say, we will not follow them! Why go to such dried-up wells only to be deceived and disappointed?

I wonder how many JW's have been deceived and disappointed over the years. Especially pre 1975!

 

[katiemygirl]

*** w11 7/15 p. 16 par. 8 Will You Heed Jehovah’s Clear Warnings? ***
8 No matter what false teachers may say, we will not follow them! Why go to such dried-up wells only to be deceived and disappointed?

I wonder how many JW's have been deceived and disappointed over the years. Especially pre 1975!

How many JW's have been deceived? ALL OF THEM!

 

[Wharton]

You can tell Him that on judgement day.

But..but..I'm a Christian and I'm going straight to heaven. I got my non-stop ticket (faith in Jesus) LOL

 

[katiemygirl]

But..but..I'm a Christian and I'm going straight to heaven. I got my non-stop ticket (faith in Jesus) LOL

I guess I missed the humor.

By grace you are saved through faith. (Eph. 2:8)

That faith must be active. (James 2) Faith without works is dead.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The burning lake of fire is literal. I gave you a large list of Scriptures where JESUS describes (His words, not mine) what it will be like there: gnashing of teeth, torment, everlasting destruction. This teaching is persistent throughout the Bible. It's repeated too often to make the claim that it is simply an unconscious sleep.

Symbolic Scriptures don't have real people with real names like Abraham and Lazarus in Luke 16.

Jesus persistently taught that hell is a burning lake of fire. If hell is just annihalation as you claim, wouldn't that make Christ a liar (symbolic or not)? Exaggeration is a lie after all!

You say there is no literal burning hell. Ask yourself, before you deceive more people,
what if you are wrong?

If I am wrong, I can stand in front of God's judgment seat and tell God that I am teaching what Jesus Christ persistently taught.

However, if you are wrong, you will be deceiving people to believe that there are no consequences of sinning, falling right into Satan's trap.

The Holy Spirit uses the consciousness of our sin, the righteousness of Christ and the knowledge of judgment to convict people to believe in God (John 16:8-10). If you take away the judgment of hell, you are giving people a license to sin, and the consequence of that is obvious. And you will be responsible for deceiving others.

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I mentioned that to the gentleman I study with. I asked him, if we cease to exist when we die, or get another chance "during" judgment day, what does it matter how we live now? I mean, if I don't care about living on paradise earth, and I will cease to exist with no threat of punishment when I die, what does it matter how I live? I can be as evil as I want and have all the fun I want with no fear of any punishment, and then "POOF" I'm gone. So what? That makes no sense to me at all.

 

[katiemygirl]

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I mentioned that to the gentleman I study with. I asked him, if we cease to exist when we die, or get another chance "during" judgment day, what does it matter how we live now? I mean, if I don't care about living on paradise earth, and I will cease to exist with no threat of punishment when I die, what does it matter how I live? I can be as evil as I want and have all the fun I want with no fear of any punishment, and then "POOF" I'm gone. So what? That makes no sense to me at all.

What was his reaction?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

That's the way the JW's should be thinking tho. According to the gentleman I talk to, Jesus has the final say if he get's to stay on earth. What if all JW's get to judgment and Jesus say's, I'm sorry but you missed paradise earth by 3 doors. You should have walked faster.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

What was his reaction?

He wanted to talk about the cross subject instead!

 

[Pegg]

I will and do worship, pray to and serve the ONE TRUE GOD. GOD is a title, which is representative of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That's who my GOD is now and always will be.

Who took great power and began to reign in Rev. 11:15?

Rev. 11:15
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign.

If "mighty God " means lesser god, as you suggest, then why is Jehovah called mighty God in the OT?

That verse is speaking of Jehovah. It was only because of Jehovah that Jesus gave his life and only because of Jehovah that Jesus was given authority. So by Jehovah taking such steps, it can be said that he 'began to reign' by installing a new ruling authority for mankind.

 

[Pegg]

What cracks me up is that an Orthodox Jewish rabbi will accept a blood transfusion and I think he would know what the Law implies regarding blood. Where the JW's are coming from, got me. But they allow blood fractions?? So somehow, they think that the life force can be extracted from blood and not transfused.

Its seen as a matter for individual conscience. Some JWs do not accept fractions and others do. The GB do not decide for us... we decide what is acceptable to our conscience.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You all do realize everyone get's a second chance at going to heaven, right?

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7)

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak.

 

[Pegg]

Let's help you out. The Father is the only stand alone person in the Trinity. His title as first person is Almighty. It is a position marker only. He begets a son and as God, the son is of the same substance. The son is God. You want to call him a mighty God, fine. It only marks his position as the second person in the Trinity. Yes, Jesus can say he has a God just as you can say you had a Human in the begetting process.

Subjecting oneself to another does not diminish the nature of a being. When a wife subjects herself to her husband, as Paul states, does that make her less than human? When a child subjects himself to his parents, is he less than human? When Jesus subjects himself to the Father, it doesn't make him less than God. He can't lose that nature by any action.

Your right... a wife is still human even though she is subject to her husbands authority. But the wife is not her husband which is what you are trying to claim Jesus is.
They are still two separate beings no matter how much you would like to believe otherwise.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
To live forever, both Armageddon survivors and resurrected ones will have to obey God’s commandments, including whatever new requirements Jehovah might reveal during the thousand years. Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day.

I asked the gentleman this also.
Say someone murders a child. He gets arrested and goes to court. "During" his judgment day (trial) he does everything the court expects of people in the court room. He follows all the laws to the letter. At the end of the day the judge turns to him and says, "since you have obeyed all my laws in the court room, I find you not guilty, go in peace and don't do it again." What kind of logic is that??

 

[Pegg]

The burning lake of fire is literal. I gave you a large list of Scriptures where JESUS describes (His words, not mine) what it will be like there: gnashing of teeth, torment, everlasting destruction. This teaching is persistent throughout the Bible. It's repeated too often to make the claim that it is simply annihalation.

Symbolic Scriptures don't have real people with real names like Abraham and Lazarus in Luke 16.

Jesus persistently taught that hell is a burning lake of fire. If hell is just annihalation as you claim, wouldn't that make Christ a liar (symbolic or not)? Exaggeration is a lie after all!

You say there is no literal burning hell. Ask yourself, before you deceive more people,
what if you are wrong?

If I am wrong, I can stand in front of God's judgment seat and tell God that I am teaching what Jesus Christ persistently taught.

However, if you are wrong, you will be deceiving people to believe that there are no consequences of sinning, falling right into Satan's trap.

The Holy Spirit uses the consciousness of our sin, the righteousness of Christ and the knowledge of judgment to convict people to believe in God (John 16:8-10). If you take away the judgment of hell, you are giving people a license to sin, and the consequence of that is obvious. And you will be responsible for deceiving others.

We are not taking away the judgement of hell. We tell people very clearly that death will be the result if they dont submit to Christ.
Death is the punishment....not torture.

How can you arttribute such a horendous wicked act to a loving kind and merciful God???
The holy spirit is 'love, joy, peace, mildness, kindness, goodness, patience,faith'... Jehovah is described as a merciful loving father.... how can you believe that any loving merciful father would torture his children forever?
Did the 'holy' spirit reveal that to you or some other spirit??? The spirit of our God does not behave in such ways.

 

[JFish123]

Its seen as a matter for individual conscience. Some JWs do not accept fractions and others do. The GB do not decide for us... we decide what is acceptable to our conscience.

Which is determined by the watchtowers teaching. I mean if you believe the watchtower is gods only channel for truth. And they say something's bad. Your conscience has been programmed to feel distressed if you choose something the watchtower disagrees with.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

How can you arttribute such a horendous wicked act to a loving kind and merciful God???
The holy spirit is 'love, joy, peace, mildness, kindness, goodness, patience,faith'... Jehovah is described as a merciful loving father.... how can you believe that any loving merciful father would torture his children forever?
Did the 'holy' spirit reveal that to you or some other spirit??? The spirit of our God does not behave in such ways.

He is also a "JUST" God. How could a loving and merciful God instruct His prophets of old to kill whole cities, men, women and "CHILDREN"?

 

[JFish123]

We are not taking away the judgement of hell. We tell people very clearly that death will be the result if they dont submit to Christ.
Death is the punishment....not torture.

How can you arttribute such a horendous wicked act to a loving kind and merciful God???
The holy spirit is 'love, joy, peace, mildness, kindness, goodness, patience,faith'... Jehovah is described as a merciful loving father.... how can you believe that any loving merciful father would torture his children forever?
Did the 'holy' spirit reveal that to you or some other spirit??? The spirit of our God does not behave in such ways.

Your god doesn't behave in such ways and your god wouldn't create a hell. That's because your god doesn't exist. You created a god that makes sense to you and may make you feel more comfortable but that's putting your own views in scripture and on god which is Idolatry.
1. Hell is a place of eternal regret in separation from God. A place of no hope, no joy, and no love as God will not be there. God doesn't send anyone to hell. We choose ourselves to walk passed all the signs God gives us to help us be saved in our lives and end up there.
2. Annihilation is not punishment as punishment requires suffering and suffering requires conscienceness. One can exist and not be punished; but no one can be punished and not exist. Annihilation avoids punishment, rather than encountering it.
So, how do we know that the punishment say in Matthew 25:46 does not entail an extinction of conscience and annihilation? There are many evidences. For example, consider the Fact that there are no DEGREES of annihilation. After all, one is either annihilated or one is not. In contrast, Scripture teaches that there will be degrees of punishment on the day of judgment (Matthew 10:15, 11:21-24, 16:27; Luke 12:47-48; John 15:22; Hebrews 10:29; revelation 20:11-15, 22:12, etc...)
The very Fact that people will suffer varying degrees of punishment in hell shows that annihilation or the extinction of conscience is not taught in Matthew 25:46 or anywhere else in Scripture. These are incompatible concepts

 

[Wharton]

Your right... a wife is still human even though she is subject to her husbands authority. But the wife is not her husband which is what you are trying to claim Jesus is.
They are still two separate beings no matter how much you would like to believe otherwise.

The wife is of the same substance, human. Jesus is of the same substance as his Father, God. He is not the Father, just as the wife is not the husband. They're all separate persons of the same nature/substance.

 

[Wharton]

He is also a "JUST" God. How could a loving and merciful God instruct His prophets of old to kill whole cities, men, women and "CHILDREN"?

Yeah, I always wondered about all the killing in Joshua 10,11 and 12 and Deuteronomy. I wonder when the Muslims will make a movie about the Jewish First Solution? What goes around, comes around.

 

[Pegg]

The wife is of the same substance, human. Jesus is of the same substance as his Father, God. He is not the Father, just as the wife is not the husband. They're all separate persons of the same nature/substance.

Sure, thats why Jesus is called a mighty god. He is a divine being just as other spirits are divine in nature....but they are not all God Almighty.