Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Pegg]

After explaining how I've silenced your past arguments on the kingdom of God, you tell me you did so because you do not cast pearls before swine. Pearls are symbolic for nuggets of truth. You've been casting your self-imposed truth to unreceptive eyes (whom you would deem pigs) throughout the whole thread. Therefore you are not practicing what you preach, hence rendering you a hypocrite--just like the Pharisees.

Your arguments come down to interpretation. Thats why im not going to continually debate them with you. From what i remember of our past discussions, you have the idea that the restoration is going to a phyiscal kingdom located in Jerusalem (correct me if i'm wrong)
Whereas our interpretation is that it is going to be a heavenly kingdom ruling from the throne of God in heaven.

If its hypocritical of me to refrain from debate due to these differences, then thats your view. Im not going to call you a hypocrite for doing the same thing though.

 

[james2ko]

From what i remember of our past discussions, you have the idea that the restoration is going to a phyiscal kingdom located in Jerusalem (correct me if i'm wrong)
Whereas our interpretation is that it is going to be a heavenly kingdom ruling from the throne of God in heaven.

If its hypocritical of me to refrain from debate due to these differences, then thats your view. Im not going to call you a hypocrite for doing the same thing though.

I'm not referring to our conversations about the kingdom. You said in this thread you don't cast your pearls before pigs. Yet you are doing exactly that.. I'm not claiming to have the absolute truth. You are. Yet you've been proven wrong on your teaching of the kingdom of God straight from the literal scriptures. They are so crystal clear. For the record, here are our conversations about the kingdom.

Is the Kingdom of God earthly or heavenly? | ReligiousForums.com

Return of Christ | Page 9 | ReligiousForums.com

Gods Kingdom is now ruling. Are you one of its citizens? | Page 5 | ReligiousForums.com​

I especially found amusing when you asked on post #11 in the first link above:

"and how can this verse be literal? [His feet standing on the Mount of Olives-Zec 14:4] A person cannot stand on a mountain with one foot on one side of the valley and the other foot on the other side. They will have to be some mighty long legs he's standing on. "​

I could see you scratching your head when I replied to that one. Unfortunately, it's indicative of the twisted logic employed in some of your doctrines. Anyone who has the desire and time to read through our discussions will clearly see that. It's quite sad you won't see it.

 

[JFish123]

Made these memes for a forum but discovered they disabled pictures so I'll post them here in hopes they can help

 

[Pegg]

I'm not referring to our conversations about the kingdom. You said in this thread you don't cast your pearls before pigs.

actually you said you had silenced me many times....

What makes you think you silenced me and I didnt just decide not to debate with you? Thats why I said I dont throw my pearls before 'piggypoos'

Yet you are doing exactly that.. I'm not claiming to have the absolute truth. You are. Yet you've been proven wrong on your teaching of the kingdom of God straight from the literal scriptures. They are so crystal clear. For the record, here are our conversations about the kingdom.

Is the Kingdom of God earthly or heavenly? | ReligiousForums.com

Return of Christ | Page 9 | ReligiousForums.com

Gods Kingdom is now ruling. Are you one of its citizens? | Page 5 | ReligiousForums.com​

I especially found amusing when you asked on post #11 in the first link above:

"and how can this verse be literal? [His feet standing on the Mount of Olives-Zec 14:4] A person cannot stand on a mountain with one foot on one side of the valley and the other foot on the other side. They will have to be some mighty long legs he's standing on. "​

I could see you scratching your head when I replied to that one. Unfortunately, it's indicative of the twisted logic employed in some of your doctrines. Anyone who has the desire and time to read through our discussions will clearly see that. It's quite sad you won't see it. I still love you though. Twisted logic and all.

Its a matter of interpretation. You see the scriptures as being completely literal, we dont.

For example, lets take the discussion we had back in 2011 about the kingdom on page one, You said:

Scripture indicates he will return to establish His throne and kingdom on earth not up in heaven. (Zec 14:4,9; Isa 2:3; Joel 3:16-18; Zec 8:20; Mic 4:1-2; Jer 3:17; Psa 2:8, 22:27-28; Psa 72:11, 86:9, 89:27; Rev 11:15)​

Its very well to use these scriptures, but the problem is that they had a real literal fulfillment on the real nation of Israel back in ancient times, and they will have a further spiritual fulfillment under Christ. You dont see the 2nd fulfillment as spiritual, while we do. You are expecting a 2nd literal fulfillment similar to what happened to the ancient nation of Israel.

So whats the point of debating. Unless we can establish whether the fulfillment will happen literally or spiritually, there is no point.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

You don't like Burger King? Please enlighten me to the "a lot wrong" I have. You say you have been "trained" well, but as the JW's Bible translators, you elect to keep your trainer a secret. If you are the only one who has the actual truth, isn't it your responsibility to spread that truth? You shouldn't be on here, you should be as Jesus was, moving from town to town and city to city, preaching and teaching.

I do speak of it everywhere I go on a regular basis. And it keeps me busy.

However, I do not claim to know "all truth". My approach is to share what I believe and and ask for the input of others about the matter.

I don't think it nearly as important to be able to say what tomorrow holds as is the question, 'How do we deal with it today.'

My approach is to point out the things which show the scriptures are unfolding before us. In that way I hope to inspire confidence in the Word of God and hopefully to move more to consider how we should deal with what we face day to day according to the scripture in a manner that assures we have been a source for the betterment of others rather than a contributor to life's problems.

Matter not how much a man might think he knows, it is but a drop of water in the hand compared to what we do net yet know and have yet to learn. Why should anyone be an authority? I think that is best left to God.

 

[Pegg]

Why should anyone be an authority? I think that is best left to God.

Moses was in authority. The Apostles were in authority. The high priest of Isreal was in authority.

I guess the reason why God puts some in authority is because he does not deal with every human one on one. He has always appointed someone to be in authority, and allows them to do the talking.

Isnt that why Jesus is called 'the Word'?

 

[JFish123]

Moses was in authority. The Apostles were in authority. The high priest of Isreal was in authority.

I guess the reason why God puts some in authority is because he does not deal with every human one on one. He has always appointed someone to be in authority, and allows them to do the talking.

Isnt that why Jesus is called 'the Word'?

He does deal with us one on one. He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit and through His word. The only difference is that the Jehovahs Witnesses can only believe what the Watchtower says about the bible as the Watchtower teaching is no one but them can interpret the bible which is a lie straight from satan himself.

 

[JayJayDee]

@JFish123. Is mocking all you can do? Is this some childish game you play to detract from the fact that you cannot debate scripture on an adult level?

2 Peter 3:3, 5...."First of all you must realise that in the last days mockers will undoubtedly come—men whose only guide in life is what they want for themselves—and they will say, “What has happened to his promised coming? Since the first Christians fell asleep, everything remains exactly as it was since the beginning of creation!” They are deliberately shutting their eyes to a fact that they know very well, that there were, by God’s command, heavens in the old days and an earth formed out of the water and surrounded by water. It was by water that the world of those days was deluged and destroyed, but the present heavens and earth are, also by God’s command, being kept and maintained for the fire of the day of judgment and the destruction of wicked men." (Phillips)

Be careful how hard you laugh. OK?

 

[JFish123]

@JFish123. Is mocking all you can do? Is this some childish game you play to detract from the fact that you cannot debate scripture on an adult level?

2 Peter 3:3, 5...."First of all you must realise that in the last days mockers will undoubtedly come—men whose only guide in life is what they want for themselves—and they will say, “What has happened to his promised coming? Since the first Christians fell asleep, everything remains exactly as it was since the beginning of creation!” They are deliberately shutting their eyes to a fact that they know very well, that there were, by God’s command, heavens in the old days and an earth formed out of the water and surrounded by water. It was by water that the world of those days was deluged and destroyed, but the present heavens and earth are, also by God’s command, being kept and maintained for the fire of the day of judgment and the destruction of wicked men." (Phillips)

Be careful how hard you laugh. OK?

Is what I say untrue? Maybe I can over indulge in that truth, but saying the truth is not mocking much like when you say we believe in "paganism" of a trinity among other things is not you mocking either I presume. Still if You believe I mocked then I sincerely apologize. I have said in the past numerous times that the Jehovahs Witnesses I hold in respect for there love of Jesus. Only that there basis on Jesus and God comes from a perversion and twisting of scripture of the Watchtower and the NWT.
Though I Still haven't heard any good arguments for Michael being Jesus. Here's some adult level stuff: how can Jesus be an angel when an angel can't be called Gods Son or rule the world? How can Jesus and Michael be the same when one could rebuke satan with his own authority and the other could not? How could you believe what the Watchtower says is the truth when they change it with their "new light" so often? How can you trust someone who makes dozens of false prophecies and yet takes no responsibility for them because they don't call themselves prophets so they can get off the hook? How can you trust that or anyone who claims to be gods only channel and yet gets prophecies like the 1975 one wrong? A million Jehovahs Witnesses left the Watchtower because of it. That does not sound like Gods channel does it?

 

[psychoslice]

Agreed!
I can't believe that 2,000 years have passed and people are still trying to defend the false trinity doctrine.

That's only because your organised religion doesn't believe or understand the trinity, if you were not a JW, you probably would have a grasp of the trinity, but just because you don't doesn't mean its false. This is what belief systems do to us, it conditions us to believe what it wants us to believe, and all along we have no idea of what we believe lol.

 

[JFish123]

The Trinity Pegg is clearly seen throughout all of Scripture. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all called God and all have the attributes of God and do the works of God. Can anyone but God have the attributes of God? I think not. The Watchtower (started by one man) much like Mormonism and other sects outside of Christianity, believes in the false doctrine of that man. And even Charles Russell the Founder of the Watchtower believed Jesus should be worshipped among other things that would get THE FOUNDER. Of the Jehovahs Witnesses Disfellowshipped if he tried to join today. Does Gods truth change in His "Only Channel" like that? No, it wouldn't. Again this is not to mock but to show truth:

 

[Pegg]

That's only because your organised religion doesn't believe or understand the trinity, if you were not a JW, you probably would have a grasp of the trinity, but just because you don't doesn't mean its false. This is what belief systems do to us, it conditions us to believe what it wants us to believe, and all along we have no idea of what we believe lol.

the trinity doctrine may be correct from the point of view as a theological doctrine. But its certainly not a doctrine based in scripture. Thats why I call it a false christian doctrine. If it has no basis in scripture, then its not christian.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

The Trinity Pegg is clearly seen throughout all of Scripture. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all called God and all have the attributes of God and do the works of God. Can anyone but God have the attributes of God? I think not. The Watchtower (started by one man) much like Mormonism and other sects outside of Christianity, believes in the false doctrine of that man. And even Charles Russell the Founder of the Watchtower believed Jesus should be worshipped among other things that would get THE FOUNDER. Of the Jehovahs Witnesses Disfellowshipped if he tried to join today. Does Gods truth change in His "Only Channel" like that? No, it wouldn't. Again this is not to mock but to show truth:
View attachment 10083

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 

[psychoslice]

the trinity doctrine may be correct from the point of view as a theological doctrine. But its certainly not a doctrine based in scripture. Thats why I call it a false christian doctrine. If it has no basis in scripture, then its not christian.

The father the holy spirit and the son is all one, just as there are levels of the ocean, but its all one........we also are one in God, so in truth nothing is separate from God, the only thing that makes it seem separate is the mind, don't get caught up in words, see past the words, see past the belief that you treasure.

 

[JFish123]

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Moses was in authority. The Apostles were in authority. The high priest of Isreal was in authority.

I guess the reason why God puts some in authority is because he does not deal with every human one on one. He has always appointed someone to be in authority, and allows them to do the talking.

Isnt that why Jesus is called 'the Word'?

Your sensitivity is showing there Pegg.

If you will look back on that post you will see I said, "Why should anyone be an authority?

In the case of Mose, for example, who was the authority, Pegg? What happened to Moses for talking credit to himself unduly when he split the rock to get water for the people? You are familiar with that account.

Moses spoke nothing to the people but that God had surely spoken it to him. And that is why not one word of what Moses spoke was ever found to be untrue.

 

[JFish123]

the trinity doctrine may be correct from the point of view as a theological doctrine. But its certainly not a doctrine based in scripture. Thats why I call it a false christian doctrine. If it has no basis in scripture, then its not christian.

But it does have basis in scripture Pegg. When shown the true evidence your trained mind by the Watchtower refuses to see it

 

[psychoslice]

View attachment 10084

Yes they are or seem separate, but in truth their all One, just like everything in this world is One.

 

[psychoslice]

But it does have basis in scripture Pegg. When shown the true evidence your trained mind by the Watchtower refuses to see it

Yes they do have a very trained mind, that's for sure.

 

[JFish123]

Why I left the Jehovahs Witnesses youtube video (only 4 mins): This man started JWtruth.org

I've seen elders for 30 years of Jehovahs Witnesses leave as they put there trust in Jesus Christ and not in an organization.
Hallelujah!!