Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[e.r.m.]

Policy means rules. They have rules that they must obey to be considered Jehovah's Witnesses. They have rules to starve their loved ones of love so that those who wish to leave will beg their way back. This is what they are being taught to do. It is not considered by them a choice. If they don't obey the rules then they will be treated coldly by most other JWs.

Pegg,
Your thoughts on this?

 

[e.r.m.]

Mr. Raphael Aron is a fraud. Anyone can and should do a bit of research on this guy.

Here is a bit, just the opening paragraph from just one web site:


"Raphael Aron beguiles by deceptively representing himself as a cult expert when he ONLY has at best an unrelated degree in Commerce. In fact, he holds no formal medical or psychological training or degree whatsoever."


Mr. Fish, for reasons unknown to me you seem to have an intense dislike for the

J.W.'s.

Regards.

When people leave any group, it's usually a mix of hurt truth tellers who tell of genuine grievances in the most objective way possible, people who are emotional and tell things very subjectively only from their side when there could be two sides to the tale, and flat out liars who have no conscience about saying whatever they can say to hurt the group, truthful or not. So-called "cult experts" often do not distinguish between these people. They take everything every disgruntled ex says as fact. What could be presented as genuine concerns and a correct assessment about a given group, gets amplified, as a result. In addition to that, once the word cult is used, the masses tend to believe it, they don't make their own assessment. It's a word that sticks, people don't require proof.

 

[averageJOE]

You admire J.W.'s passion............................................???????????????????
Admire???????????? Yet you have been bashing the snot out of them.
J.W. are not, by any means, a denomination that disfellowships members for gross misconduct.
Many denominations do this. Just google some more and learn.
Most notable are the Amish and various sects of Amish but there are many.
I know a J.W. who was disfellowshipped. Why? His continual behavior of cheating on
his wife.
He was happily and joyfully reinstated after demonstrating his willingness to repent and
stop his most un-Christian behavior.
I came here to learn about the Christian and other religions and perhaps to improve
my debating skills.
I learned nothing kind, loving, or beneficial from your attacking tirades.

LINK: There are several.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Rapha...e-Tax-Evader-Clandestine-Cunning-Scamm-636353

Oh please.

You are right about them not disfellowshipping for gross misconduct. In fact, it doesn't even take much at all for JW's to disfellowship someone. One merely need to be accused of apostasy. Joining the Peace Corps can get you disfellowshiped. Associating with one who has been disfellowshipped can get you dissfellowshipped, even if that person is your son or daughter.

At least with other religions it actually takes gross misconduct.

 

[savagewind]

Pegg,
Your thoughts on this?

She might have me on ignore, so your comment would then be floating there alone and she won't know what your "this" is. You might have to copy it for them to see it.

 

[averageJOE]

Those who identify as Jehovah's Witnesses but who wish to break the laws of God unrepentantly, or who wish to slander the ones we are told to obey (Heb 13:7, 17) will not be treated as if they still qualify as spiritual family members.
Those who wish to leave are free to go, but those who want to stay and whine about the elders or who want to engage in unchristian conduct, will be disciplined.....or disfellowshipped. We have rules because God has rules. We don't stop talking to people just because they want to leave. We hope they will come back. We stop talking to trouble makers who wish to take away our peace. One of God's pet peeves is those who stir up contentions amongst the brotherhood.

Proverbs 6:16-19...."There are six things which the Lord hates,Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers."

We keep apostates and wilful sinners out of our congregations because they are poisonous to us. They are not content to just leave and let go...they want to spread their poison because it justifies their defection. They are basically left with nowhere to go, so instead of repenting they just want to get even. Hateful vendettas follow. Then you have the self-righteous crusaders who pick up on the negative feedback and see it as their job to save everyone from the evil clutches of JW's. Perhaps they should spend as much time making trouble for ISIS? I don't think we've beheaded anyone lately.

When we are baptised as Christ's disciples, we make a vow to God that we will become his Witnesses as disciples of his son. We recognise the Christian congregation as God's organisation on earth. God has always had an organised people who were given his laws and who were considered his property. Failure to obey the laws of God incurred a penalty. If repentance was demonstrated, then mercy was shown.
We keep to that standard because it is what was exercised in Israel and in the first century Christian congregations.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13...."When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.” (NLT)

Authority to judge inside the congregations was given to those in possession of that authority...whilst God will judge those outside. We are instructed to remove the sinner, who has failed to mend their ways.

For those who want to teach something different, according to their own ideas, John has this to say....

2 John 1:10-11...."If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. ." (ESV)

These are the reasons for disfellowshipping. Someone who simply stops coming to meetings is not disfellowshipped.
A person who wants to be their own version of a JW and influence others in the congregation in a negative way, is not welcome. We make no apology for that.

Therein lies the problem. The religion will brainwash its members into thinking this way of even their own family members. They are told to cut ties with their own children if they are dissfellowshipped, or risk being dissfellowshiped themselves.

 

[jeager106]

Therein lies the problem. The religion will brainwash its members into thinking this way of even their own family members. They are told to cut ties with their own children if they are dissfellowshipped, or risk being dissfellowshiped themselves.

That is baloney in my personal experience.
My cousin got booted years ago, admits he deserved it, repented and was
taken back.
His father and mother, both J.W.; NEVER cut family ties with him.
Fact is I went to a nice dinner with the ENTIRE family of about 8 in attendance and
NO ONE treated my cousin like anything but family.
It's discussing J.W. religious matters they didn't engage in.
Frankly that was the best family dinner I ever had with the group.
(boy I'll pay for that comment!)

 

[averageJOE]

That is baloney in my personal experience.
My cousin got booted years ago, admits he deserved it, repented and was
taken back.
His father and mother, both J.W.; NEVER cut family ties with him.
Fact is I went to a nice dinner with the ENTIRE family of about 8 in attendance and
NO ONE treated my cousin like anything but family.
It's discussing J.W. religious matters they didn't engage in.
Frankly that was the best family dinner I ever had with the group.
(boy I'll pay for that comment!)

"… a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p.25

The Watchtower 2013 Jan 1 p.16 even denies family communication by email, stating; "Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail." Interestingly, whilst the translation into most languages is the same, the Spanish edition extends this to "email, phone or text messaging."

 

[savagewind]

That is baloney in my personal experience.
My cousin got booted years ago, admits he deserved it, repented and was
taken back.
His father and mother, both J.W.; NEVER cut family ties with him.
Fact is I went to a nice dinner with the ENTIRE family of about 8 in attendance and
NO ONE treated my cousin like anything but family.
It's discussing J.W. religious matters they didn't engage in.
Frankly that was the best family dinner I ever had with the group.
(boy I'll pay for that comment!)

If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. Mark 9:42

Those JWs who you say do not obey the governing body rule about shunning go door to door telling other people they should obey all governing body rules. It is good they were wise about their cousin, but they were disobeying orders when they did that.

I am not disfellowshipped and sometimes I see members of my former congregation around town. They ignore me as if I was nobody they ever knew. Why do they do that?

 

[JayJayDee]

"… a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p.25

The Watchtower 2013 Jan 1 p.16 even denies family communication by email, stating; "Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail." Interestingly, whilst the translation into most languages is the same, the Spanish edition extends this to "email, phone or text messaging."

How twisted you make things. Sounds like you have personal experience in this. Are you an ex JW?

We are not to "fellowship" with those who are rebelliously disregarding God's laws. What does "fellowship" mean?
It means treating that family member as if they did nothing wrong.

If we break the law of the land, we expect a penalty...why do we expect less when someone breaks the laws of God?
If we failed to treat them any differently, what would be the incentive for change? It is God's word that recommends discipline.

Hebrews 12:7-11...."It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." (ESV)

Why be surprised that discipline is something God demands? Even though it can be painful....it trains us to do better and leads to peace.

In the parable of the prodigal son, there was no attempt on the father's part to contact his son whilst he was living a debauched life, squandering his inheritance. He simply let him go to pursue his chosen course. Only when he "came to his senses", did the son change his attitude and humbly come back to his father in repentance. And only then, did the father accept him back. Had the son approached without changing his attitude, the outcome would have been different.

Some family get togethers are nothing to do with spiritual fellowship and would not necessarily exclude a disfellowshipped one. The truth is, most who are rebellious do not want association with faithful family members. They already know that their conduct is unacceptable to them, so why would they seek association if it only makes them uncomfortable? The shoe is mostly on the other foot.

 

[Shak34]

How twisted you make things. Sounds like you have personal experience in this. Are you an ex JW?

We are not to "fellowship" with those who are rebelliously disregarding God's laws. What does "fellowship" mean?
It means treating that family member as if they did nothing wrong.

If we break the law of the land, we expect a penalty...why do we expect less when someone breaks the laws of God?
If we failed to treat them any differently, what would be the incentive for change? It is God's word that recommends discipline.

Hebrews 12:7-11...."It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." (ESV)

Why be surprised that discipline is something God demands? Even though it can be painful....it trains us to do better and leads to peace.

In the parable of the prodigal son, there was no attempt on the father's part to contact his son whilst he was living a debauched life, squandering his inheritance. He simply let him go to pursue his chosen course. Only when he "came to his senses", did the son change his attitude and humbly come back to his father in repentance. And only then, did the father accept him back. Had the son approached without changing his attitude, the outcome would have been different.

Some family get togethers are nothing to do with spiritual fellowship and would not necessarily exclude a disfellowshipped one. The truth is, most who are rebellious do not want association with faithful family members. They already know that their conduct is unacceptable to them, so why would they seek association if it only makes them uncomfortable? The shoe is mostly on the other foot.

The organizations literature instructs differently. JW's are have no contact with anyone disfellowshipped.

Watchtower 4/15/12
REMAIN LOYAL TO JEHOVAH
16 There are members of the congregation who committed serious sins and who were reproved “with severity, that they may be healthy in the faith.” (Titus 1:13) For some, their conduct has required that they be disfellowshipped. For “those who have been trained by it,” the discipline has helped them to become spiritually restored. (Heb. 12:11) What if we have a relative or a close friend who is disfellowshipped? Now our loyalty is on the line, not to that person, but to God. Jehovah is watching us to see whether we will abide by his command not to have contact with anyone who is disfellowshipped.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.
17 Consider just one example of the good that can come when a family loyally upholds Jehovah’s decree not to associate with disfellowshipped relatives. A young man had been disfellowshipped for over ten years, during which time his father, mother, and four brothers “quit mixing in company” with him. At times, he tried to involve himself in their activities, but to their credit, each member of the family was steadfast in not having any contact with him. After he was reinstated, he said that he always missed the association with his family, especially at night when he was alone. But, he admitted, had the family associated with him even a little, that small dose would have satisfied him. However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah. Think of that if you are ever tempted to violate God’s command not to associate with your disfellowshipped relatives.

Watchtower 9/15/11
By acting with courage and decisiveness when situations in the congregation require such, elders become examples of faith and loyalty. Of course, other Christians also need to act courageously, reporting serious wrongdoing that they may become aware of. Likewise, it takes loyalty to discontinue association with a friend or relative who is disfellowshipped.

If fact this articles says that one needs to discontinue association. That does sound like just avoiding them when it has something to do with spiritual fellowship.

Watchtower 11/15/11
Today, no servant of Jehovah uses physical force against opponents of pure worship. “Vengeance is mine,” God says. (Heb. 10:30) But to rid the congregation of potentially corrupting influences, Christian elders may have to act with courage similar to that of Jehu. (1 Cor. 5:9-13) And all members of the congregation need to be determined to avoid the company of disfellowshipped individuals

Again the literature is saying to avoid company of disfellowshipped people. It is not always the disfellowshipped one who doesn't want to associate with their family members, but more often than not the faithful family members following the organizations rules.

 

[savagewind]

Watchtower 4/15/12
REMAIN LOYAL TO JEHOVAH
16 There are members of the congregation who committed serious sins and who were reproved “with severity, that they may be healthy in the faith.” (Titus 1:13) For some, their conduct has required that they be disfellowshipped. For “those who have been trained by it,” the discipline has helped them to become spiritually restored. (Heb. 12:11) What if we have a relative or a close friend who is disfellowshipped? Now our loyalty is on the line, not to that person, but to God. Jehovah is watching us to see whether we will abide by his command not to have contact with anyone who is disfellowshipped.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13

"Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 "

After a person is declared disfellowshipped that person cannot be talked about and no one will ever know why he or she was disfellowshipped except for the elders. They know. It is always assumed that when someone is disfellowshipped it is because of a gross sins such as sexually immoral* or a greedy person+ or an idolater or a reviler* or a drunkard+ or an extortioner,+ not even eating with such a man.12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside?
But sometimes it is for disbelief in the governing body. WHERE is it written that a person must be fed by them or be removed?

 

[JayJayDee]

To a point I understand rules when people are trying pull others away from god. What I disagree with is that you say is if they want to go they are free to do so. That is true to a point. If they can fade without giving any reason for punishment then they won't be shunned. But if they want to openly leave the organization by disassociating themselves then they are treated the same as someone who is disfellowshipped.

Watchtower 4/15/88
By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views

14 The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man.”

Just because on decides to leave the organization does not make them a fornicator, greedy, or guilty of any gross sin.

Watchtower 9/15/ 81
16 Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing.

These quotes were taken from the watchtower articles regarding disassociated and disfellowshiped members.

Sad to say JW's do stop talking to people when they want to leave. It is no wonder why so many get hurt and angry.

Getting hurt and angry is about throwing tantrums because you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you haven't made a vow...you can't break it. If you neglect to make a vow, the outcome is the same as it is for all unbelievers. It isn't rocket science. Those who treat a vow as of little consequence have no part with those of us who understands its importance and responsibilities.

A disassociation is a personal disfellowshipping. These ones have publicly declared that they no long accept the teachings of those whom we believe direct God's earthly organization. According to scripture, there are just two tables at which we all feed (1 Cor 10:20, 21).....one is Jehovah's table which is served by his "faithful and discreet slave" and the other is the table of demons. (Matt 24:45-47) That which is not serve at Jehovah's table must of necessity come from the other table. The food might have an appealing appearance, but it is spiritual poison. Partaking of that table precludes one from partaking at the other. You can't have it both ways.

John's words dictate our actions, regardless of what anyone else says or how horrible they want to make it appear....we will not compromise on this issue. We have made a clear separation from this world and any who want to have a foot in both camps will be made aware of the differentiation. (2 John 8-11) A choice will have to be made.

 

[savagewind]

Getting hurt and angry is about throwing tantrums because you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you haven't made a vow...you can't break it. If you neglect to make a vow, the outcome is the same as it is for all unbelievers. It isn't rocket science. Those who treat a vow as of little consequence have no part those of us who understands its importance and responsibilities.

A disassociation is a personal disfellowshipping. These ones have publicly declared that they no long accept the teachings of those whom we believe direct God's earthly organization. According to scripture, there are just two tables at which we all feed (1 Cor 10:20, 21).....one is Jehovah's table which is served by his "faithful and discreet slave" and the other is the table of demons. (Matt 24:45-47) That which is not serve at Jehovah's table must of necessity come from the other table. The food might have an appealing appearance, but it is spiritual poison. Partaking of that table precludes one from partaking at the other. You can't have it both ways.

John's words dictate our actions, regardless of what anyone else says or how horrible they want to make it appear....we will not compromise on this issue. We have made a clear separation from this world and any who want to have a foot in both camps will be made aware of the differentiation. (2 John 8-11) A choice will have to be made.

I think it is reasonable to believe the possibility that JWs might be wrong about some things and if a person disagrees with something they teach then they are outed. When they are outed it is being said that they go to the devil. So everyone has the choice to choose to believe something wrong or eat with demons. But of course, to believe something wrong is to eat with demons. They are human and have been wrong and will be wrong. So our wonderful choice is to be wrong on the one hand or go with demons on the other hand. Not much of a choice.*

Matthew 24:24

*I think it is being said by them that to keep unity everyone must believe what is being taught at any time even if it is wrong. Which reminds me of
1 Peter 1:16

Isaiah 35:8
And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness; it will be for those who walk on that Way. The unclean will not journey on it; wicked fools will not go about on it.

 

[Shak34]

Getting hurt and angry is about throwing tantrums because you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you haven't made a vow...you can't break it. If you neglect to make a vow, the outcome is the same as it is for all unbelievers. It isn't rocket science. Those who treat a vow as of little consequence have no part those of us who understands its importance and responsibilities.

A disassociation is a personal disfellowshipping. These ones have publicly declared that they no long accept the teachings of those whom we believe direct God's earthly organization. According to scripture, there are just two tables at which we all feed (1 Cor 10:20, 21).....one is Jehovah's table which is served by his "faithful and discreet slave" and the other is the table of demons. (Matt 24:45-47) That which is not serve at Jehovah's table must of necessity come from the other table. The food might have an appealing appearance, but it is spiritual poison. Partaking of that table precludes one from partaking at the other. You can't have it both ways.

John's words dictate our actions, regardless of what anyone else says or how horrible they want to make it appear....we will not compromise on this issue. We have made a clear separation from this world and any who want to have a foot in both camps will be made aware of the differentiation. (2 John 8-11) A choice will have to be made.

My point is that a person who openly leaves the organization is treated the same as a person who is disfellowshipped. Whether a person slowly fades and becomes inactive or disassociated themselves leaving is still leaving. Both ways they are saying that they no longer accept the teachings of the organization. So in the long run if a person leaves they are to be avoided. So in the end JW's do (maybe not always, but most of the time) stop talking to those who leave the organization. You came across as extremely angry and I'm not sure why. I just disagreed with you saying that they don't stop talking to those who leave the organization and used your literature to show why I disagree.

 

[savagewind]

Those who treat a vow as of little consequence have no part with those of us who understands its importance and responsibilities.

This is why JWs are making enemies of people. They say that when a person is baptized their vow is to the organization so if she leaves she has broken her vow. Jesus says let your yes mean yes so saying no is disobeying Jesus Christ. But baptism is to God in Jesus Christ name. If baptism really was to the organization then all those who were baptized before the organization are not really baptized. It is WRONG, wrong, wrong for them to say that if a person leaves the organization it is the same as leaving Jehovah.

 

[Shak34]

This is why JWs are making enemies of people. They say that when a person is baptized their vow is to the organization so if she leaves she has broken her vow. Jesus says let your yes mean yes so saying no is disobeying Jesus Christ. But baptism is to God in Jesus Christ name. If baptism really was to the organization then all those who were baptized before the organization are not really baptized. It is WRONG, wrong, wrong for them to say that if a person leaves the organization it is the same as leaving Jehovah.

Good point!

 

[JayJayDee]

My point is that a person who openly leaves the organization is treated the same as a person who is disfellowshipped. Whether a person slowly fades and becomes inactive or disassociated themselves leaving is still leaving. Both ways they are saying that they no longer accept the teachings of the organization. So in the long run if a person leaves they are to be avoided. So in the end JW's do (maybe not always, but most of the time) stop talking to those who leave the organization. You came across as extremely angry and I'm not sure why. I just disagreed with you saying that they don't stop talking to those who leave the organization and used your literature to show why I disagree.

I am not angry......just used to people airing their dirty laundry as if their sob story must of necessity apply to all of JW's.
As a people we are a global brotherhood. The few who let the side down are not representative of the majority. Jehovah knows who belongs to him. Sometimes humans behave as if he cannot see what they think, let alone how they behave behind closed doors. We are not label wearers, which is why you cannot "join" Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to choose to become one by accepting all the rules that God himself places on Christ's followers. Baptism can only take place on the understanding that you are making a dedication to the Creator of the universe who tolerates no deviation from his laws. It's a bit like a marriage. No one stands over the bride and groom forcing them to make a vow to each other. They do this of their own volition. When they wish to get a divorce for whatever reason, they have to have grounds to dissolve that legally binding arrangement. Why would a vow to God be any different? How many ex's stay friends and still want to hang out with each other? They usually go their separate ways. Why is that so unusual?

I have explained in detail why we disfellowship individuals and how we see those who disassociate. There is a difference between those who "fade away" and those who publicly announce that they are no longer wanting to be associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. Dissassociation is the same as person disfellowshipping. The only difference is that we did not kick the offender out...they left of their own accord. Since we see that as a defection, we no longer desire fellowship with that person, just as they no longer desire fellowship with us. Why is that even surprising?

 

[savagewind]

I am not angry......just used to people airing their dirty laundry as if their sob story must of necessity apply to all of JW's.
As a people we are a global brotherhood. The few who let the side down are not representative of the majority. Jehovah knows who belongs to him.

Here you go again saying that to be Jehovah's people we must side with your governing body. You should stop saying that, I think.

Sometimes humans behave as if he cannot see what they think, let alone how they behave behind closed doors.

What is this suppose to mean?

We are not label wearers, which is why you cannot "join" Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to choose to become one by accepting all the rules that God himself places on Christ's followers. Baptism can only take place on the understanding that you are making a dedication to the Creator of the universe who tolerates no deviation from his laws. It's a bit like a marriage. No one stands over the bride and groom forcing them to make a vow to each other. They do this of their own volition. When they wish to get a divorce for whatever reason, they have to have grounds to dissolve that legally binding arrangement. Why would a vow to God be any different? How many ex's stay friends and still want to hang out with each other? They usually go their separate ways. Why is that so unusual?

I have explained in detail why we disfellowship individuals and how we see those who disassociate. There is a difference between those who "fade away" and those who publicly announce that they are no longer wanting to be associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. Dissassociation is the same as person disfellowshipping. The only difference is that we did not kick the offender out...they left of their own accord. Since we see that as a defection, we no longer desire fellowship with that person, just as they no longer desire fellowship with us.

This is not true. Some people who leave recognize the organization as deviating from the truth that is in Jesus so their conscience demands they leave it. "Step away from the tents of those men", says Jehovah and we do. But it is not true that everyone stepping away does not want to keep the friends they found there. I desire fellowship with the few JWs I made friends with. I wouldn't even mind if sometimes they would come and persuade me they really are the truth! Nobody has done that and it has been years.

Why is that even surprising?

 

[Shak34]

I am not angry......just used to people airing their dirty laundry as if their sob story must of necessity apply to all of JW's.
As a people we are a global brotherhood. The few who let the side down are not representative of the majority. Jehovah knows who belongs to him. Sometimes humans behave as if he cannot see what they think, let alone how they behave behind closed doors. We are not label wearers, which is why you cannot "join" Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to choose to become one by accepting all the rules that God himself places on Christ's followers. Baptism can only take place on the understanding that you are making a dedication to the Creator of the universe who tolerates no deviation from his laws. It's a bit like a marriage. No one stands over the bride and groom forcing them to make a vow to each other. They do this of their own volition. When they wish to get a divorce for whatever reason, they have to have grounds to dissolve that legally binding arrangement. Why would a vow to God be any different? How many ex's stay friends and still want to hang out with each other? They usually go their separate ways. Why is that so unusual?

I have explained in detail why we disfellowship individuals and how we see those who disassociate. There is a difference between those who "fade away" and those who publicly announce that they are no longer wanting to be associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. Dissassociation is the same as person disfellowshipping. The only difference is that we did not kick the offender out...they left of their own accord. Since we see that as a defection, we no longer desire fellowship with that person, just as they no longer desire fellowship with us. Why is that even surprising?

I was not even bringing my so called sob story into this conversation. Savagewind recently post that leaving the organization do not mean you are leaving god. I agree with that. You are baptized to god not an organization. I agree and disagree with you that when a relationship ends that the people go their separate why. When it comes to friendship, marriages, or dating that is usually the case. But where I disagree is when it comes to family. Just because I left of my parents house does not mean I don't want to see them anymore. Just as if a person wishes to leaves the organization does not mean that they don't want to associate with their family. If it was just spiritual fellowship then I would understand that. A family could always get together and not have to bring religion into it, but I am afraid that I will always disagree with avoiding any association with on who disassociates/leaves the organization. Could you please explain you comment "We are not label wearers, which is why you cannot "join" Jehovah's Witnesses.", I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

 

[JayJayDee]

Some people who leave recognize the organization as deviating from the truth that is in Jesus so their conscience demands they leave it.

It is their personal opinion that the organization has deviated from the truth. A perception that something isn't true, doesn't mean it is false. Why do the majority not feel the same way? Rebelliousness is not a trait that Jehovah rewards.

If Jehovah has an organization (as he always has) and he is directing it through his son with the operation of his spirit, (as Jesus said he was) then HE will correct any errors, not us. His ancient nation was under obligation to follow the direction of the duly appointed leader. When they needed correcting God did it himself. You obviously do not trust him to do it now. He does his refining in his own time and way...does he expect us to leave in the meantime? Where would we go?

What if our perception of things is way off, but we are so carried away with our own views that we don't see what is right under our noses?

"Step away from the tents of those men", says Jehovah and we do.

What was the situation in this case. Whose tents were the Israelites told to step away from? Moses' tent? Or the rebels who wanted to usurp Moses authority? Stop using scripture to justify your defection.

But it is not true that everyone stepping away does not want to keep the friends they found there. I desire fellowship with the few JWs I made friends with. I wouldn't even mind if sometimes they would come and persuade me they really are the truth! Nobody has done that and it has been years.

Who do you blame for that? Have you stopped bad mouthing Christ's brothers? Will Jehovah have you back as long as you continue to do this? NO! He will keep his people away from those who have a poisonous tongue. He "hates" those who send contentions among brothers. A divisive spirit is never welcome in the congregation.

Failing to support Christ's brothers is the description of a goat. Do the goats know that they are? Do they expect what Jesus says to them? (Matt 25:31-46)

Who can "persuade" someone who can't be wrong and who sees themselves as above Jehovah's anointed?
If we expect perfection from our brothers, then we would all turn blue holding our breath waiting for it to happen.