Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[james2ko]

Can you see him? Are you not gathered for his name? He promised to be with us. Is he not with you? I can not see him but I know he is with me. Can he be with me and also come? I do not think so.

Why does it have to be either or. Why can't it be both? Imagine how much more we would appreciate, love, and adore Him when He dwells with us physically..

 

[savagewind]

Rev 1:7 (ESVST) 7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

If it is saying, "every eye will see "it" (STRONG) g0846. αὐτός autos; it's the same word in all 3 instances.

Rev 1:7 (ESVST) 7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see "IT", even those who pierced "IT", and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of "IT". Even so. Amen.

Matthew 5:29

I should probably explain this. αὐτὸν is the word for pluck "it" out. Not pluck him out.

Matthew 13:46 same thing.

 

[savagewind]

Why does it have to be either or. Why can't it be both? Imagine how much more we would appreciate, love, and adore Him when He dwells with us physically..

Are you kidding? He never actually said love me. Did he? He said IF you love me you will keep my commandments. He said love The Father and love each other.
Would the love of each other grow if he dwelled with us physically? I want to know.

 

[savagewind]

I am hearing that God is a Spirit. You must love The Lord your God will all your heart. That is a commandment of Jesus. If he came to rule as king in the flesh he would be sabotaging his own commandment.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Matthew 5:29

I should probably explain this. αὐτὸν is the word for pluck "it" out. Not pluck him out.

Matthew 13:46 same thing.

Do you think this verse is talking about your physical body, or the body of the church? Is He saying to literally pluck your eye out? Or literally cut your hand off?

Mat 5:28-29 (ESVST) . 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

1Co 12:14-20 (ESVST) For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, " Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, " Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

JW's, do these verses show that not every Christian has the same role in the body of Christ? That not everyone has the same purpose? That not everyone has the same calling? That not everyone has the same responsibility? Just to prevent any doubt or argument to whom the letter was written, verse 2 says,

1Co 1:2 (ESVST) 2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

1Co 12:18-20 (ESVST) 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

1Co 12:28-30 (ESVST) . 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

 

[Wharton]

It's quite obvious that the GB is more than God. They even trump their own NWT. In their GB approved literature you see one nail. What does John 20: 24-29 state, even in the NWT?

 

[savagewind]

Do you think this verse is talking about your physical body, or the body of the church? Is He saying to literally pluck your eye out? Or literally cut your hand off?

Mat 5:28-29 (ESVST) . 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

1Co 12:14-20 (ESVST) For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, " Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, " Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

You are changing the subject. You are free to do so. And I am free to ignore it.

 

[james2ko]

Are you kidding? He never actually said love me. Did he? He said love The Father and love each other.

So you are implying we are not to love Christ simply because He did not make an explicit statement. When did you become an apostate?

He said IF you love me you will keep my commandments. Would the love of each other grow if he dwelled with us physically? I want to know.

2Th 1:3 Dear brothers and sisters, we can't help but thank God for you, because your faith is flourishing and your love for one another is growing.
​

I think so. If our love for each other is to grow when He's not physically here, I would imagine it would grow that much more when He is.

 

[james2ko]

I am hearing that God is a Spirit. You must love The Lord your God will all your heart. That is a commandment of Jesus. If he came to rule as king in the flesh he would be sabotaging his own commandment.

How so?

 

[savagewind]

How so?

Loving God The Spirit and loving God the flesh are not the same. I think we are to love The Lord God with ALL, repeat ALL, the heart mind souls and strength.

Christ the man has returned. There are many souls who want to see him. You have an appointment at a certain time. If you miss it you will not have another opportunity for a million years. On the way there is a poor Samaritan (someone not as important as you are) who needs help. If you help him you will miss your chance. What will you do? Are you sure?

 

[james2ko]

Loving God The Spirit and loving God the flesh are not the same. I think we are to love The Lord God with ALL, repeat ALL, the heart mind souls and strength.

If Christ can currently transform Himself into either one, as scripture states He can, then we can inherently love both regardless of which form He decides to take, right?

Christ the man has returned. There are many souls who want to see him. You have an appointment at a certain time. If you miss it you will not have another opportunity for a million years. On the way there is a poor Samaritan (someone not as important as you are) who needs help. If you help him you will miss your chance. What will you do? Are you sure?

I'm sorry but I don't speak illogical.

 

[savagewind]

If Christ can currently transform Himself into either one, as scripture states He can, then we can inherently love both regardless of which form He decides to take, right?



I'm sorry but I don't speak illogical.

OK. So when he returns he won't live some WHERE. Is this correct? Will he walk around like a homeless guy or will he live in a grand place with servants? Will he be magic and pop up places? Please explain the physical Jesus for us.

Does the physical Jesus have to occupy a space? Where will that space be? How many people can fit in that space with him? How will the people feel who can't be with the physical Jesus because of a lack of space?

 

[james2ko]

OK. So when he returns he won't live some WHERE. Is this correct? Will he walk around like a homeless guy or will he live in a grand place with servants? Will he be magic and pop up places? Please explain the physical Jesus for us.

Before we get too far off track. All you have done so far is provide philosophical views why you think He cannot rule and dwell on earth. The scriptures you provided earlier have no connection to His return. I'll pose the same question that has gone unanswered by the JW's to you (an ex-JW). Utilizing the law of non-contradiction, find me a scripture that contradicts the idea He could never physically dwell and rule from earth?

 

[savagewind]

Before we get too far off track. All you have done so far is provide philosophical views why you think He cannot rule and dwell on earth. The scriptures you provided earlier have no connection to His return. I'll pose the same question that has gone unanswered by the JW's to you (an ex-JW). Utilizing the law of non-contradiction, find me a scripture that contradicts the idea He could never physically dwell and rule from earth?

I didn't say he cannot rule on earth. I also do not believe that he could never dwell on earth. I believe he already did. The conversation started by your belief that there will be a show at his returning. I posted scripture which I think proves he has returned many, many times. Every time after his resurrection it was an invisible return. Can he be "with" you but not have returned? I do not think so.

 

[james2ko]

I didn't say he cannot rule on earth. I also do not believe that he could never dwell on earth. I believe he already did. The conversation started by your belief that there will be a show at his returning. I posted scripture which I think proves he has returned many, many times. Every time after his resurrection it was an invisible return. Can he be "with" you but not have returned? I do not think so.

Nowhere in those scriptures does it state He will return many times. That is what you are reading into them. Here is one that contradicts your "theory":

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
​

I cannot fathom why anyone would want to spiritualize away the gospel of the Kingdom of God on earth.

 

[savagewind]

Nowhere in those scriptures does it state He will return many times. That is what you are reading into them. Here is one that contradicts your "theory":

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
​

I cannot fathom why anyone would want to spiritualize away the gospel of the Kingdom of God on earth.

The second time is when he appears to each person.

He has appeared to many people as they were gathered together for his name. The mind's eye is aware of his presence. At the same time he tells them to be quiet about his appearing to them. Many times.

 

[katiemygirl]

Before we get too far off track. All you have done so far is provide philosophical views why you think He cannot rule and dwell on earth. The scriptures you provided earlier have no connection to His return. I'll pose the same question that has gone unanswered by the JW's to you (an ex-JW). Utilizing the law of non-contradiction, find me a scripture that contradicts the idea He could never physically dwell and rule from earth?

Hi James,

I started a thread on this topic. "Revelation 20 - Earthly Reign"

I would very much like to discuss it with you or anyone else, for that matter.

I would much prefer to debate this topic in the appropriate thread so as not to detract from this one. So if you'd like, you can answer my question there, rather than here.

Can you show a Scripture that says Jesus will set one foot on the earth when He comes again.

According to apostle Paul,

"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus shall we always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words." (I Thessalonians 4:13-18).

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You are changing the subject. You are free to do so. And I am free to ignore it.

How did I change the subject?

 

[JFish123]