Brian2
Veteran Member
Hi @Brian2
My point is that the Jehovahs Witnesses are perfectly correct in their grammatical rendering.
I admit that my own bias is in favor of the earliest historical Christian models described in the earliest Judeo-Christian literature where the Father and the Son are different individuals (3=3 model). I do not see any logical or rational or intuitive or interpretive advantages to the later 3=1 model of the trinity.
I does look as if the JW translation of "a god" is grammatically correct from what I have read. I think that there are famous linguists who would disagree with that however.
This site is a good one to get various views on the subject.
In John 1:1c, should the Greek word θεὸς be translated into English as “a god” or “God”?
I suggest answers 35 and 20 for what I think the John 1:1c means and this also shows what I meant by God in John 1:1c being adjectival.
Answer 14 agrees with the NWT rendering and shows also that the "translators" wanted to show the "qualitative" nature of God in the clause, making it adjectival. Thus the Word had God like qualities making it of a "god class of beings".
Answers 89 and 33 seem to be more concerned with Colwell's Rule which the JWs reject, but which is not really needed to see that their translation is in error.
The JWs imagine that the Word was created before the "beginning" even though this is nowhere stated in the Bible, and they ignore verse 3 which tells us that everything came into being through the Word, meaning the Word was not created.
John 1:1 is showing distinctness of the Word and of "the God" but is also showing that the Word was God in nature.
LOGICAL AND RATIONAL AND PHILOSOPHICAL AND SEMANTICAL EFFECTS OF DIFFERENT MODELS OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FATHER, JESUS AND THE SPIRIT
For example, speaking of “the basis of their relationship” which you referred to. In your description, you describe the “oneness” of Jesus and God the Father as “one of being equal in nature and everything else except authority,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,unless of course the Son decided one day to claim that full equality next to His Father.” (Brian2 in post #651).
It is difficult to justify the logic of claiming Jesus does not have full authority or equality with his Father, yet Jesus can "claim" full authority and equality by simply “claiming it”.
IF he doesn’t have it, and “claims it”, then the full equality must still be given him by another source that has it.
I don’t see the logical advantage of this philosophy or how to make it historically coherent with the earliest literature.
I don't know what "earliest literature" you are referring to. Certainly Jesus is seen as the Son of God and so God by nature in the Bible and there is no stepping away from the Jewish idea of just one God. Jesus is therefore not a separate God but the Father and Son are together, one God. The Apostolic Fathers also called Jesus their God and did not step away from the one God idea in the Old Testament.
That Jesus is the Son of His Father it means that the Son is subject to His Father even if He has God nature and is equal in all other ways.
If He was just "a god" He could not even consider He could become equal to His Father in any way. But since He is actually equal to His Father except in authority, this is how He could even take the authority by Himself by refusing to become a man. This would be pride and usurping authority and would be taking His inheritance before the Father gave it to Him. But He is exactly like His Father and the 2 are one God and so the pre human Jesus did not even consider this.
Phil 2 (and importantly it is about humility between equals) shows us that Jesus was not like this but did as the Father said and was exalted and received that authority anyway afterwards.
He is now ruling and the Father knows He will rule according to His (the Father's wishes) and we bow to Jesus and this gives glory not only to Jesus but also to the Father.