Actually, the prophet Elijah, and Samuel all possessed the power of God. 1 Samuel 3:19 I think Joshua was able to stop the sun and the moon if I remember correctly. Josh 10:13 Yeshua was one among many of those with the anointing, whether anointed in oil or not.
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Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!
- Thread starter Oeste
- Start date
Actually, the prophet Elijah, and Samuel all possessed the power of God. 1 Samuel 3:19 I think Joshua was able to stop the sun and the moon if I remember correctly. Josh 10:13 Yeshua was one among many of those with the anointing, whether anointed in oil or not.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The proper name of who? Jesus? Did Mary know English, you think?
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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JerryMyers You asked... SHOW me wherein your whole Bible did Jesus tell you, as you put it, word for word. ."Worship is ONLY for God"????
Scriptures are God' words... Worship is ONLY FOR GOD!
Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
ONLY WORSHIP GOD! Jesus never ever stop people from worshipping him because he is GOD!
ONLY WORSHIP GOD! Jesus never ever corrects people from worshipping him because he is GOD!
You NEVER read Jesus saying "Don't worship me; For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
Satan want man to worship him not Jesus! Satan want man to worship him so he starts churches that teach "Don't worship Jesus!" Satan want man to worship him so he starts churches that teach Jesus is NOT God! Satan is Anti-Christ he is against Jesus he is against Christians because Jesus is God; Christians worship Jesus they always have!
JerryMyers To reject Jesus is to reject God!
Massage and massage the words of God.. Twist the words of God until you have God saying what you want God to say!
They WORSHIP Jesus; Jesus lets them worship him! They clasp his feet and worship Jesus!
Thomas is a Christian he tells YOU; Jesus is God! Jesus tells Thomas; blessed are they who believe as you and have NOT seen me!
JerryMyers Jesus tells you.. "You are NOT blessed!"
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
We bow down sometimes in front of kings. The king bowed down to the prophet Daniel and the King James Version says he WORSHIPPED Daniel. Did Daniel object, saying, "No, don't do that"?. (Daniel 2:46) Please explain what you think it means, ok? Thanks.
"Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him."
Did Daniel say no, don't do that? Furthermoire, why do you think the King James Bible rendered it that way, any idea?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Why do you think Thomas exclaimed that when he saw Jesus? Do you remember what Thomas said earlier?
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Elijah and Joshua were not filled with the power of God. During their time in God’s service they could call on the Holy Spirit which AIDED them.
That AID is not the same as being WITH POWER as Jesus and the apostles were. The simple reason is this: ‘Jesus was PRE-EMINENT in all things pertaining to God’. Being pre-eminent means ‘no one before him’. So while Elijah AND Elisha both raised the dead, you should note that these events were directed BY GOD
Joshua ‘stopping the sun’???!! Read that again in the Bible…. It was only metaphorical … the day appeared to be longer because the sun shone longer … this has been documented so if you research it you will read for yourself. It must be remembered that people if those times did not understand solar phenomenons and so attributed these events as spiritually created. A person in a coma was considered !DEAD’. The person may even be buried and later wake out of the coma to shock witnesses. Disease and sickness was mainly put down to demon spirits. This is the reason Jesus was often exasperated by the lack of faith in even those whom were following him as disciples… We call these healings ‘Miracles’ because those of the time did not know how for instance a man could be made to walk or sight restored or a leper healed. They didn’t understand dementia or other mental disorders - and yes! - demonic possession was a fact but only because of pagan beliefs delved in and had infiltrated their beliefs (the Sadducees and Pharisees had very strange beliefs even though they were regarded as leading Jews in their society)
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Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Jumping in…
King James was a Trinitarians and so ordered that trinitarian twists be put in wherever possible when he ordered his version of the Bible!
Bowing before someone of eminence is not worship. It is a perfectly natural act.
The question to set things right is:
- What is WORSHIP?
Then, when the Samaritans came to be (read about them and why they came to be so!) they REMAINED worshipping on the mountain when the true Jews were worshipping in the temple in JERUSALEM…. The Samaritans displeased God and they’d worship on the mountain was not acceptable to God. Hence Jesus normally avoided travelling through Samaria but, on that one occasion, he met the woman at the well and showed her that the Samaritans were displeasing God!
Jesus ALSO showed her (and consequently us) that from that time on, WORSHIP OF GOD was no longer a gathering in a temple nor on a mountain but rather, individually in TRUTH AND IN SPIRIT.
However, there is nothing wrong with CORPORATE WORSHIP in a church or any other gathering place if if us carried out in holiness and reverence.
So, a short background… But still: WHAT IS WORSHIP???
So, again, SIMPLY SHOWING RESPECT FOR A SUPERIOR IS NOT WORSHIP… it is OBEISANCE!!!
Ok, hardly anyone uses ‘OBEISANCE’ and that is one major problem… we are so used to just IGNORANTLY saying ‘worship’ that it has made a claim on our thinking and therefore trinity makes use of this saying that every act of OBEISANCE shown to JESUS is Worshii… but the same act done to anyone else IS NOT….??!!!
Ask yourself: since the Jews were seeking ways to have Jesus killed, what did they say when they saw people ‘WORSHIPPING’ him… did they arrest Jesus and charge those who did it with blasphemy?
No??!!! Oh, why was that?
Perhaps because NO ONE SAW THE ACT AS WORSHIP…. Only the Trinitarians 300 years later!!!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I love the stupidity of the argument over Thomas.
Think about this: The disciples were in mourning that their leader was DEAD!!!
They gathered to pray about it in the upper room … and look and behold ALMIGHTY GOD appears in the room and says ‘Do not be frightened… I AM NOT A SPIRIT…!’
See that…. Almighty God is NOT A SPIRIT.
In fact, almighty God (one person!!!!!!!) says, ‘I have flesh and bone…. A spirit does not have flesh and bone as I have!!’
Thomas then touches him and says:
“Yow!!! You really are MY Lord and MY God!!’
Yes, Thomas saw and touched HIS HUMAN GOD despite everyone knowing that almighty God is SPIRIT and cannot be seen by human eyes!!!
And, in fact, this same ‘Thomas GOD’ says that ‘NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD nor heard his voice at any time….!’
And here is the biggest joke. After seeing ‘GOD’, the disciples WENT BACK TO THEIR DAY JOBS… fishing etc…
Someone uttering a PERSONAL ASPIRATION does not make a truth for everyone else!
‘My God’ does not mean ‘THE GOD’!
JerryMyers
Active Member
LOL!!! You said the scripture said, WORD for WORD, ‘Worship is ONLY for God’ and then, you quote
Jesus’ words to Satan - ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only’.
‘Worship is ONLY for God’ is YOUR own statement, NOT WORD for WORD of what Jesus told Satan.
In Matt 4:10 Jesus was NOT speaking to all mankind, he was speaking to Satan, one on one, and telling Satan to worship God and serve Him ONLY !!! As I said before, you SHOULD STOP posting and talk NONSENSE if you are NOT able to understand your own scripture, let alone, understand Jesus’ words!!!
Why are you repeating your NONSENSE when I have already told you Jesus DID NOT stop the people from ‘worshipping’ him because Jesus knew their ‘worship’ of him is that of obeisance. The word ‘worshiped’ in Matthew 28:9 and Matthew 14:33 was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’. Here, go and read the definition of ‘worship’ as given by the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon – Proskuneo Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version
So, STOP repeating your old NONSENSE again and again. If you disagree with the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon definition, then, take it up with the people behind the biblestudytools.com website, after all, they are Christians too!!
That’s a rather stupid statement to make, isn’t it?? If Jesus told Satan to worship God and serve God ONLY, does Jesus need to tell Satan not to worship him too??? Likewise, if I told you the color of my car is ONLY black, do I also need to tell you the color of my car is NOT red, NOT green, NOT blue….??? Is your thinking logic SO basic and THAT limited???
You got that COMPLETELY WRONG!!! Satan’s main objective is to make sure man DO NOT worship God Almighty. Period. Jesus worships and pray ONLY to God and this offended Satan. So, what did Satan do?? He tries to tempt Jesus with all the wealth of the world if, and only if, Jesus abandon his worship of God Almighty and worship him (Satan) instead and that’s when Jesus told Satan to worship God and serve ONLY God.
While Satan failed with Jesus in making Jesus abandon his worship of the true God, Satan SUCCEEDED with Trinitarian Christians like you. How?? By making you believe Jesus is God, Satan succeeded in taking your worship AWAY from the true God Almighty and placed that worship to Jesus!! Isn’t that ironic?? The man who told Satan to worship and serve ONLY the true God ended up by him himself being worshipped as God!! Satan must be very pleased with the Trinitarian Christians!!
Again, you got that COMPLETELY WRONG!! To accept Jesus as God is to reject God’s claim of Himself as the only true God and besides Him, there’s no other God – that is what God said in your own scripture and you REJECT IT!!!!!
You ARE TALKING NONSENSE…YET AGAIN!!!
There are NO Christians in Jesus’ lifetime!!! Jesus himself nor any of his disciples (including Thomas) had EVER HEARD of the term ‘Christian’!! So, stop making a FOOL of yourself by talking NONSENSE!!
You can try to brainwash yourself by repeating to yourself ‘Jesus is God!’ day in and day out like a lunatic cult-follower, but the fact remains that Jesus CANNOT be God because God DID SAY “beside Me, there’s NO OTHER GOD” and Jesus DID pray to God, “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST, whom YOU HAVE SENT” !! So you can massage and massage the words of God and Jesus, twist the words of God and Jesus until you have God and Jesus saying what you want God to say, BUT the conclusion is still the same – you ARE TALKING NONSENSE!!
By the way, have you run out of NONSENSE to tell me as you keep repeating the same old NONSENSE in your ‘new’ postings???
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
YoursTrue Matthew has Jesus telling Satan "Worship is only for God"! It is also in Matthew that they "Worship Jesus"! We must assume the author knows the meaning of the word Worship used in both circumstance!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
In Matthew...Jesus does NOT tell Satan obeisance is only for God! Jesus used the word WORSIP .. "WORSIP is only for God!"
The Author of Matthew does not use the word obeisance when the people WORSHIP Jesus! The author does NOT switch out Worship with the word Obeisance! Matthew does NOT have written "The people offered obeisance to Jesus!" The word WORSIP must mean the same in both circumstances!
JerryMyers THUS you are forced to believe Jesus told Satan "OBEISANCE is only for God!
JerryMyers
Active Member
Why are you still repeating NONSENSE??! Not only are you talking NONSENSE, but you are also exposing yourself as someone who will lie and say anything to tailor-fit your FALSE belief of ‘Jesus is God’ into the scripture!!
Where and when did I ever say in Matthew 4:10, Jesus used the word ‘obeisance’ or meant it as ‘obeisance’??
I said (and I DID NOT mention Matthew 4:10) the word ‘worshiped’ in Matthew 28:9 and Matthew 14:33 was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’ which the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon ALSO defined ‘worship’ as, and I quote, ‘in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or MAKE OBEISANCE, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication’.
You are trying to change the context and twist Jesus’ words in Matthew 4:10 by giving the impression that Jesus was addressing all mankind and saying “Worship is ONLY for God!” when what the scripture REALLY said in Matthew 4:10, and in context, Jesus was addressing Satan, NOT to all mankind and he told Satan in person, “Worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only”.
So, stop lying through your teeth!!!
You can massage and massage the words of God and Jesus, twist the words of God and Jesus until you have God and Jesus saying what you want God to say, BUT the conclusion is still the same – you ARE TALKING NONSENSE and JUST FOOLING yourself and your fellow Trinitarian Christians!! Poor old chap!!
Anymore LIES and NONSENSE you want to tell me???
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Since it is written that Nebuchadnezzar "worshipped" Daniel and Daniel did not tell the king that he should not worship him, and he was protected by divine intervention while in the lion's den, there is an extension of the word worship. Daniel 2:46 relates: (King James Bible)
"Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him." Why do you think they used the word 'worship' there?
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
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Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Some Doubted ..What...
JerryMyers what are they doubting!?
FACT: Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus because Jesus is God! The CHURCH is guided into all truth.. The CHURCH tells you "Jesus is God"!
The CHURCH is guided into all truth NOT you!
The CHURCH has the AUTHORITY of heaven to teach "Jesus is God"!
Satan tells you "Jesus is NOT God!"! Satan wants Jesus to worship him.. Clearly Satan (just like You) does NOT believe Jesus is God! Satan is NOT Christian, you are NOT Christian!
Scriptures tell you "Jesus is God"!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Jesus is 100% God
Jesus is 100% Man
Jesus the God/Man!
Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus because Jesus is God! Christians believe the words of God.. Non Christians reject the scriptures forced to twist the words of God until God says what they want God to say!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
YoursTrue This is Old Testament.. Back then no one knew about Jesus! They more then likely worshiped Daniel. AND again back then; people did worship others.. The King was worshiped Fire was worshipped! Frogs, Bulls were worshiped etc!
Does any of this change the fact Jesus told Satan "Worship is ONLY for God"! NO! Not one iota...
Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God" he has NO excuse for not correcting the people; stopping the worship of himself! UNLESS....
YoursTrue unless Jesus really is God! God cannot lie! Does the Greek in Daniel 2:46 use a different word for "Worship" then in the verse Jesus telling Satan "Worship is only for God"???
Christians have ALWAYS believed Jesus is God! The Church Jesus established on ROCK (It will never fail) is guided into all truth by God the Holy Spirit; she with all the AUTHORITY of Heaven teaches "Jesus is God"! Listen to the Church she has the AUTHORITY to teach all nations!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Dogknox, can I ask you this:
If someone said to you (in a plausible situation as a human being):
“If you kneel down and eat the food out of that bowl on the floor I will give you my car…!”.
And you replied,
- ‘It is written on the can: ‘This food is for cats alone’
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You kind of answered your own question. Did Jesus tell Satan, "hey, worship me, I'm God?" No, he did not. He told Satan finally to get away from him. also told him that worship belongs ONLY to God. He didn't say "I am God." He never said that at all, so I think you're mixing the words upWhat does the word worship mean? Before you answer that, consider that Jesus deserves honor and reverence because of his position and love for God, his FATHER, and his love for others as well. He also has power. Remember that? Remember --- the power was GIVEN to him. I know you won't believe it, but then -- that's how it goes...And because of that, Jesus IS a "deity," or a god. And he rightly deserves reverence and honor. NO ONE can go to the Father unless they honor, revere Jesus, worshipping God in spirit and truth. The word 'worship' in terms of Jesus can be misleading -- but you must understand that no one, absolutely no one, is acceptable to God the Father unless they honor and revere Jesus, the Son of God, and accept his sacrifice and position. "No one comes to the Father except -- through me," said Jesus. (John 14:6) Thus one cannot be acceptable to the Father except through Jesus.
Perhaps we can discuss other things another time.
JerryMyers
Active Member
Your ‘facts’ are NONSENSE because YOU ARE REPEATING NONSENSE!!!
Tell me, is that what your FALSE preachers told you to do – that you must brainwash yourself by chanting to yourself ‘Jesus is God….Jesus is God….Jesus is God...’ day in and day out until your mind is totally convinced Jesus is God despite what God has claimed of Himself and Jesus himself clearly denied he’s God in your own scripture???
Let me remind you that God made it very CLEAR that besides Him, there’s NO OTHER God and Jesus himself made it very CLEAR that he is NOT God when he rebuked the man who called him ‘good’ and told the man that no one is good EXCEPT GOD ALONE! In other words, Jesus is denying he’s God because ONLY God can be good and he’s NOT God to be called ‘good’. If Jesus is God, then Jesus would NOT have said ‘only God alone is good’ and rebuked the man for calling him ‘good’!! So try to think logically even though your thinking logic is SO basic and THAT limited!
You can brainwash yourself day in and day out like a lunatic cult-follower BUT you CANNOT change the fact Jesus IS NOT GOD! You are forced to deny God’s claim of Himself that beside Him, there’s NO OTHER GOD and you are forced to ignore that Jesus denied he’s God when he rebuked the man for calling him ‘good’ as ONLY God is good!
Satan KNEW Jesus is NOT God but he WANTS YOU to believe Jesus is God because by believing so, Satan SUCCEEDED in diverting your worship AWAY from the true God!! So, YOU, whether you realize it or not, in worshipping Jesus as God is actually fulfilling Satan’s ultimate goal and that is, to make sure mankind does NOT worship the One and Only True God!!
In John 1, the ‘Word’ is NOT Jesus!! Have Jesus ever referred to himself as the ‘Word’??? NOT even once!!
In John 1, the ‘Word’ is the spoken Word from God to initiate His Command (to create), and His Command or His Word is Him(God) just as your NONSENSE is you.
You are trying to deny that God creates by just saying it or commanding it into existence – “For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm” – Psalm 33:9.
You can deny what Jesus had said of those who worship him but that does not change the
FACT:
Your belief is what Satan wants you to believe!!
FACT:
Your worship of Jesus is in vain as what Jesus himself said – “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” – Matthew 15:9
FACT:
Dogknox20 is 100% NONSENSE
Dogknox20 is 100% man
Dognox20 the NONSENSE man!
Anymore NONSENSE you want to tell me??? Please keep me amused but try NOT to keep repeating like a broken record the same old NONSENSE!!!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
If you properly define the meaning of the word, ‘God’ or ‘A God’, then you would understand fully the difference and able to explain to others.
‘God’ is a TITLE…. It is like ‘King’, ‘Majesty’, ‘Supreme One’…
It is also an ADJECTIVE and a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE at that. Therefore it is like: ‘Greatest’, ‘Most high’, ‘All powerful’, ‘Heroic’, ‘Noblest’…
But all these must be taken IN CONTEXT of the position in which it is used.
Therefore Jesus is THE MOST HIGH …OF HUMANITY (there is the CONTEXT)
But YHWH is “MOST HIGH’ of ‘ALL WHOM ARE CALLED ‘superlative adjective’.”
Jesus told the Jews that he DID NOT CALL HIMSELF ‘God’…!
He DIDNT call himself even ‘A GOD’!!
He told them that he ‘ONLY CALLED GOD HIS FATHER’!!!
And, in fact, he continued saying that THE GOD, his Father, the one whom the Jews believed in, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, himself called those ‘HEROES OF HUMANITY who received the word of this same God, “GODS”’.
Analyse the claim.l:
- ‘Heroes’ : ‘Gods’
- Context: ‘Of humanity’
- ‘Gods’: ‘Heroes of humanity’
- Some Pagans BELIEVED themselves to be ‘Gods’
- Some Pagans believed they were Gods because they claimed they were sins of Gods
- Some pagan claimed that their Gods were in the wood and stone idols that they made to show material vision of their ethereal Gods!
The tragic trinitarian twist tries to tempt the truth:
- How can it be that there could be a claim that Jesus was calling himself ‘God’ when he said ‘I DID NOT SAY I WAS GOD’?
Better definition descriptions use the word ‘Deity’ to describe the entities that are called ‘Gods’.
This shows that the deities (the actual Being, whether spirit or flesh, wood or stone) is granted the TITLE of ‘God’… ‘GOD’ and ‘Gods’ are not the BEING itself but rather it is the TITLE of the Being.
And, in describing their Deity, they (as we as Christians also do) the highest superlative adjectives are given to them (Him).
So, as long as the CONTEXT is adhered to and fully understood by all (and that is the problem!!) then attributing a title of ‘God’ to someone of something is perfectly useful:
- ‘A judge is GOD in his courtroom’ for he is the RULER, the LAW (Maker/upholder), he is the FIRST AND LAST AUTHORITY (context:->) IN HIS COURTROOM
- ‘A Father in a well established household is GOD of his household’
- ‘A Principal is GOD of his School… because he upholds and provides the laws and directions in which his school moves’
So CONTEXT MATTERS.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Sad to say, whether you realize it or not, you are worshipping three persons. (Sad.)