We are all guilty for our governments crimes against God and mankind.

[arthra]

The opening post has:

"Our governments get their power from us, we the people give them our power. How can we ask or expect forgiveness from God, when we do so little to stop these crimes?"

I really doubt it works that way... You are responsible for your individual actions... I knew a lot of people who refused combative service when they were drafted...some left the country and some refused to pay their taxes during wartime...Some joined large demonstrations against war. Some went to jail. I counseled people to apply for non-combative service. There are a lot of groups that have a peace testimony such as the Quakers and Brethren that don't support wars.

 

[jeager106]

What does the OP suggest we DO?
The OP is great at paranoid speculation but suggest nothing that "we who are
guilty" should actually do. As in what action does the OP consider is
doing something?
That is the direct challenge from me to the OP.
Please outline your plan for "doing something".

 

[rusra02]

So, we should leave our home if we don't support a war being fought by our government?

At times, becoming a refugee is the course of wisdom. In any case, we should not share in the bloodletting. (Matthew 26:52)

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope, not in this life anyway.

What I try to keep in mind is that even though (as far as I can determine) by the time most of my ancestors got to America the deed was done, the Native Americans had already had their land stolen and their way of life pretty much destroyed, the fact remains that I'm still benefiting from all of that having happened.

The natives who suffered are now dead, as are those who caused the suffering. But modern descendants of those natives benefit also. You & they now both live in the same country, & have the same opportunities.

Alternative histories are difficult things to predict. But it could be that the aforementioned native descendants could be in a worse spot. Had different conquerors arrived, they might now be speaking hochdeutsch.

 

[McBell]

The only one who can change it is God.

Ah, so it is Gods fault...

Post #3....

 

[McBell]

Those in the world believe: Sickness, war, murder, and death make for a better world, and those who try to follow Gods laws are the problem. Soon those in the world will destroy all religion, and the concept of God, take the mark of the beast, and turn on Gods people. Those in the world blame all that is bad, and ugly on Gods people, and yes, the also blame God.

In post #24 you said it is Gods fault...
Make up your mind already.

 

[Domenic]

Ah, so it is Gods fault...

Post #3....

No. Typo: the word should have been THEY, not THE.

 

[McBell]

No. Typo: the word should have been THEY, not THE.

"They only one who can change it is God"?
​

how does that help you?

 

[Conceivia]

God says, "Be in the world, but not a part of it." Man can't make this world a better place. The only one who can change it is God.

See, this is a perfect example. This kind of thinking is purely a justification for doing nothing. Pass the responsibility on to someone else. In this case, make God responsible for man's actions.

Others are saying the politicians are to blame, yet when people try to promote an alternative system, very few are willing to consider it. We all know the politicians are bad. So why are so extremely few willing to try something different? There are many methods of change. Creating a new system of society, for example, takes as little as ten people. Finding ten people, however, is near impossible.

Politicians are what they are. You should know. So why do you blame them for being what they are? We need to find something better.

When I bought my car, not only was I lied to, but a father was basically teaching his son to lie, cheat, and steal. Not an isolated incident, this is the norm now days. This is what we are, a nation that teaches our children to lie, cheat, and steal.

See, you have to consider that we are one. When one of us falters, we all falter. I'm not saying that we need to execute that guy, 'cause that would make us into a nation that kills people.

What I'm saying, is we need to accept that what we have is not working, and in accepting that, we start to seek a solution.

Tony

 

[Conceivia]

God can not accomplish any action, except through the people. For God to do anything, the people must do it. God can only advise us on what to do. God has done this, given us a plan for World Peace. A plan that will solve all of our problems, but guess what. We the people have to be willing to do the work.

So when you say, only God can make changes... That makes change impossible. When you say, only politicians can make changes... That makes change for good impossible. When we say only the rich can make changes... That makes change for the good impossible.

We the people need to make the change, whether it is following God's advice, or just acting in the people's best interest, we are the only ones who can make change.

Tony

 

[Domenic]

Conceivia,
You are putting man in Gods place. You are saying God can't do it, only people can. Keep following that thinking, and you will find yourself on the short end of the stick.

 

[Domenic]

"They only one who can change it is God"?
​

how does that help you?

No. #27
Those in the world believe: Sickness, war, murder, and death make for a better world, and those who try to follow Gods laws are the problem. Soon those in the world will destroy all religion, and the concept of God, take the mark of the beast, and turn on Gods people. Those in the world blame all that is bad, and ugly on Gods people, and yes, they also blame God.

We need to get on the same page. It was not you, it was me.

 

[Father Heathen]

What's with the notion that god is so easily angered, offended, and wounded? Why would god be such a fragile and tempermental 'lil guy? Wouldn't such a being possess infinite patence and understanding? Our make believe constructs of nations and governments, political hyjinks, and other such simian shenanigans mean nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.

 

[Conceivia]

What's with the notion that god is so easily angered, offended, and wounded? Why would god be such a fragile and tempermental 'lil guy? Wouldn't such a being possess infinite patence and understanding? Our make believe constructs of nations and governments, political hyjinks, and other such simian shenanigans mean nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.

That kind of stuff is put there to hide the message from people, and allow only the wise to understand it. The wise know that God is not fragile and temperamental. The wise know that God does not seek our praise, nor does God want to hear our praise.

The wise know that God's laws are mostly not made by God. They are mostly just natural laws, that God is telling us what they are, to help keep us from hurting ourselves.

Let me give you an example.... Jesus said, when they shall say peace and safety, than sudden destruction shall come upon them. This is how we are supposed to know that Judgment Day is near.

They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this North Atlantic Treaty:

Security is another name for safety, so they are saying "peace and safety". The same peace and safety statement is in the first chapter of the UN charter.

NATO is a war machine, and the UN is not much better. When a politician thinks of peace and safety, the only methods that they can think of to acquire it is by war. They have no idea what peace is. They only know war. The foundation of their existence is forcing people to follow their whims, and the only method to force people is by war.

So when Jesus said that we will know the end is coming by when they say peace and safety, he was really just pointing out what really should be obvious.

Tony

 

[McBell]

That kind of stuff is put there to hide the message from people, and allow only the wise to understand it. The wise know that God is not fragile and temperamental. The wise know that God does not seek our praise, nor does God want to hear our praise.

The wise know that God's laws are mostly not made by God. They are mostly just natural laws, that God is telling us what they are, to help keep us from hurting ourselves.

Let me give you an example.... Jesus said, when they shall say peace and safety, than sudden destruction shall come upon them. This is how we are supposed to know that Judgment Day is near.



Security is another name for safety, so they are saying "peace and safety". The same peace and safety statement is in the first chapter of the UN charter.

NATO is a war machine, and the UN is not much better. When a politician thinks of peace and safety, the only methods that they can think of to acquire it is by war. They have no idea what peace is. They only know war. The foundation of their existence is forcing people to follow their whims, and the only method to force people is by war.

So when Jesus said that we will know the end is coming by when they say peace and safety, he was really just pointing out what really should be obvious.

Tony

That is an awful lot of mental gymnastics...
How do you keep up with it?

 

[McBell]

No. #27
Those in the world believe: Sickness, war, murder, and death make for a better world, and those who try to follow Gods laws are the problem. Soon those in the world will destroy all religion, and the concept of God, take the mark of the beast, and turn on Gods people. Those in the world blame all that is bad, and ugly on Gods people, and yes, they also blame God.

We need to get on the same page. It was not you, it was me.

If the above line of strawman bovine feces is the page you claim we both need to be on...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why should I feel guilt over the things the United States government has done? I'm sure there is a lot of stuff that was went on that the regular people are not even allowed to know about that would make our blood boil if we even have a clue. But I am guilty how? The most I can really ever do is try to convince people of the hypocrisies of the state and the dems and reps are both crap, but I cannot accept responsibility over actions that I had no decision in, no action in, and was not even factored into these decisions and actions.

 

[Conceivia]

When you try to get an alcoholic or drug addict off of drugs, the first thing you need to do is get them to admit that they have a problem. They are to blame. They are the only ones who can fix their problem.

The same is true here.

Tony

 

[Quagmire]

The natives who suffered are now dead, as are those who caused the suffering. But modern descendants of those natives benefit also. You & they now both live in the same country, & have the same opportunities.

Alternative histories are difficult things to predict. But it could be that the aforementioned native descendants could be in a worse spot. Had different conquerors arrived, they might now be speaking hochdeutsch.

I have a personal policy about not dealing with heavy topics on the weekends, but I'll get back to you on this on Monday.

Edit: make that Tuesday. This is a 3 day weekend in the U.S.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have a personal policy about not dealing with heavy topics on the weekends, but I'll get back to you on this on Monday.

Edit: make that Tuesday. This is a 3 day weekend in the U.S.

Alls ya gotta do to make it easy is....
1) Post "Ditto!".
2) Give me a frubie.