WE (I) BELIEVE IN THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY.

[Iymus]

Father, creator
Son, savior
Spirit, love, grace, etc

You can call them people for convinence but their natures are creator, human, spirit just the same.

I do not believe the following questions was asked so will ask again.

Correct English translation Bible of Matthew 28:19 ?

How many individuals are mentioned? I counted three but perhaps mistaken.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not believe the following questions was asked so will ask again.

My answer is the same. One entity. One person. One spirit.

Calling them people is fine. Their natures are not all people

 

[Iymus]

My answer is the same. One entity. One person. One spirit.

Calling them people is fine. Their natures are not all people

I never said person; I asked; how many individuals?

Also; is only one spirit when it comes to the three that bear witness in heaven?

If so can you identify the only spirit out of the three please? "If indeed three because you have not informed me of how many or perhaps not clear. Are you saying three total but one is not alive?"
----

Not sure my questions have been answered ; I would like to ask a third time; not to annoy but tor edification.

Correct English translation Bible of Matthew 28:19 ?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm very simple. Persons. Individuals. Nouns.

There are three individuals (if you like) creator, human, spirit. But I'm not sure what you're getting at with this word over the others.

I never said person; I asked; how many individuals?

What's the difference. Creator, Spirit, Human (three?)

Also; is only one spirit when it comes to the three that bear witness in heaven?

If so can you identify the only spirit out of the three please? "If indeed three because you have not informed me of how many or perhaps not clear. Are you saying three total but one is not alive?"

No. Just three. Father. Son. Spirit. The tri-nity.

I'm not sure how that relates to one not being alive, though.

Not sure my questions have been answered ; I would like to ask a third time; not to annoy but tor edification.

I'm trying to figure where you're getting at. There's three people (persons, individuals, personal, so have you) in the trinity (hence the name)....

What do you mean?

 

[Iymus]

I'm very simple. Persons. Individuals. Nouns.

There are three individuals (if you like) creator, human, spirit. But I'm not sure what you're getting at with this word over the others.



What's the difference. Creator, Spirit, Human (three?)



No. Just three. Father. Son. Spirit. The tri-nity.

I'm not sure how that relates to one not being alive, though.



I'm trying to figure where you're getting at. There's three people (persons, individuals, personal, so have you) in the trinity (hence the name)....

What do you mean?

Essentially to get clarification on your comment on why Holy Spirit isn't an entity.

Holy spirit isn't an entity.

I view an entity as an existence which Holy Spirit seems to be.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Essentially to get clarification on your comment on why Holy Spirit isn't an entity.



I view an entity as an existence which Holy Spirit seems to be.

Entity more like a being not, how to say, a person or something like that. I'm honestly not sure if some Christians view god as a separate being (like a ghost?) Or are they using complex words for a simple relationship with creator, Christ, and spirit.

Maybe more creator sent Christ. Christ died. His spirit (himself) joined believers and creator as one body.

But I'm honestly not sure why there is so much debate over this so much as accusing people of not being christian because of it.

 

[Iymus]

But I'm honestly not sure why there is so much debate over this so much as accusing people of not being christian because of it.

I'm not qualified to say; especially when Gospel of Christ is accepted.

 

[firedragon]

My brother if you have pray before that you have read, then you will know who the Holy Spirit is. I'm gonna explain a little more in the topic. Bless.

I asked a specific question expecting an objective answer mate. But that's fine. Cheers.

 

[eik]

WHO IS THE SON? -

According to the Bible, the Son is Jesus Christ, the literal begotten Son of God the Father; begotten as a true Son in eternity past before anything was created. Let us take a look:

Romans 8:3 John 3:16-17

Just take a step back and think about these two vverses.For God the Father to SEND His own Son to save us, what does He need to have in the first place to send? A Son right? Both Paul and John tell us that Jesus is God's own Son. Now if Jesus isn't the LITERAL Son of God the Father, and they are just 'role playing', then the above two verses, and many more Bible verses are NOT truth! And if they are not truth, then we may aswell throw away the whole Bible! Just take that in for a moment.

You're not interpreting this right. Jesus was not "begotten as a true Son in eternity past before anything was created." That is the pagan conception, of gods begetting gods, which was wrongly adopted by High Trinitarians in their endeavour to reconcile Jewish theology and Greek philosophy.

John 1:1 tells us that the Word was with God and the Word was God. So the Word was not "begotten" by definition.

You need to develop a better theory, I think.

God is best conceived of as a spiritual unity of three revealed spiritual personalities, but where one personality, the Father, predominates and lives and acts in the other two, and alone has the right to be denoted as "true God" (1 John 5:20).

 

[Brian2]

We Believe in the FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT - But We Reject THE MAINSTREAM 3 in 1 TRINITY TEACHING - AN EXPLANATION

I wanted to set something straight on this matter, due to a lot of confusion and twisting the facts regarding our belief about God. Trinitarians accuse us of denying the Holy Spirit, and believing that Christ was created, which is completely false. I have also had people asking me how I can believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and yet reject the Trinity, when "Father, Son and Holy Spirit IS the Trinity". So I wanted to lay out the clear Bible truth of why we reject and STRONGLY REJECT the mainstream Trinity teaching, while at the same time fully believing in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There are two mainstream thoughts regarding trinitarianism. One says that there are 3 divine beings united as 'one god' the other says there is only 1 being, with 3 'persons' or 'personalities' that is 'one god' consists of, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the SAME BEING. We reject BOTH of these teachings.

SO WHAT DO WE BELIEVE?

Let me share with you what we believe and then I will share with you WHY we reject those two beliefs regarding the Trinity above. While we fully believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, instead of using man's definitions, we turn to the Word of God for understanding of this very important subject. Afterall, the God we worship is THE most important part of our faith. So let me share with you, from the Bible, what we believe regarding the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

WHO IS THE FATHER? -

According to the Bible, God the Father is that 'one God' whom Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets and apostles worshiped. He is the source of all life, the sovereign of the universe. Let us look at what the Bible says:

John 4:21-24 John 20:17 John 17:1-3

According to Jesus own words, who is the Father? Is He merely a 'third part' of the Trinity god? No! Jesus said Himself that His Father is the 'ONLY ONE GOD'. Jesus said the Father is not only our God, but HIS GOD also. How can this be if the 3 in 1 Trinity is true? For the Trinity states that all three are co-equal in EVERY way. But the Father is even quoted Himself in Hebrews 1:9 as saying He is the God of Jesus. So we have two witnesses to this fact. How can this be? Let us see what the apostle Paul says:

1Corinthians 8:5-6

Do you see? Paul confirmed what Jesus said, in that the Father is the 'one God'. But Paul also states why; it is because the Father is the SOURCE OF ALL LIFE, including the life of His own Son Jesus Christ, which we will explain next in 'WHO IS THE SON?'. God the Father is the very source of all life, and Jesus is the BY WHOM all life is created. This makes the Father the 'only true God'. He is the 'one God' the Bible speaks of, look:

1Timothy 2:4-5

Trinitarians believe that the 'one God' is the 3 in 1 Trinity god. And yet this is impossible according to the scriptures, because as the apostle Paul said, 'there us on God ...AND ... one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.' So if Jesus is the mediator between the ONE GOD and men, then how can the one God be the Trinity?That would make FOUR! Do you see the problem? But when you see the TRUTH as we have shown above, that the Father is that, 'one God', then it makes complete sense! Jesus is the one mediator between THE FATHER and mankind.

Acts 3:13

So who is the Father? He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is the 'only true God' - the source of all life and sovereign of the universe. He is our Father and God.

WHO IS THE SON? -

According to the Bible, the Son is Jesus Christ, the literal begotten Son of God the Father; begotten as a true Son in eternity past before anything was created. Let us take a look:

Romans 8:3 John 3:16-17

Just take a step back and think about these two vverses.For God the Father to SEND His own Son to save us, what does He need to have in the first place to send? A Son right? Both Paul and John tell us that Jesus is God's own Son. Now if Jesus isn't the LITERAL Son of God the Father, and they are just 'role playing', then the above two verses, and many more Bible verses are NOT truth! And if they are not truth, then we may aswell throw away the whole Bible! Just take that in for a moment.

Matthew 3:17 Matthew 17:5

Only two times did God the Father speak in the New Testament that people actually heard and understood. And what did God the Father used both those occasions to confirm? That Jesus Christ is His beloved Son! Was God trying to get an important message across do you think?

Galatians 4:4 Mark 12:6

The Bible even tells us that Jesus was begotten of the Father way back in eternity past before anything was created. And no, this does NOT mean that Jesus Himself was created. This is a blatant lie aimed at us by Trinitarians. The Father did not take some material and create Jesus like He did with us and the rest of creation. Jesus was begotten [born] of the Father's own divine being - taken from the very bosom of the Father:

Proverbs 8:23-25 Proverbs 30:4 Micah 5:2 Hebrews 1:5-6

These verses clearly tell us of Jesus is begotten (brought forth) of the Father in eternity past. How? We do not know because God has not told us. This is what FAITH is all about - taking God at His Word - "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON". The Bible tells us that Jesus was 'brought forth' from the Father before creation, so we must believe it by faith. Now some people will say, 'Oh, Proverbs 8 is speaking of wisdom not Jesus.'

1Corinthians 1:24 Luke 11:49 Matthew 23:1,34 1Corinthians 1:30

So the Son is Jesus Christ, the LITERAL begotten Son of God the Father; begotten as a true Son in eternity past before anything was created. Jesus Christ is a distinct personal being, apart from the Father and yet 'one' with the Father in Spirit, mind, action and purpose. Jesus is truly the SON OF GOD.

WHO/WHAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT? -

According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, which He gives to us through His Son Jesus Christ. Let us take a look:

Luke 12:11-12 Matthew 10:19-20

Can you see what the Word of God is telling us here regarding the Holy Spirit? Luke and Matthew tell us that the Holy Spirit that speaks in us is the Spirit of God the Father. Now when you look at the word 'Spirit' in both the Hebrew and Greek, it means 'breath, mind, life.' So if the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, then it means the Holy Spirit is the very divine life and mind of God the Father. Look at the two following verses:

Isaiah 40:13 Romans 11:34

Do you see how Paul understood Isaiah 40:13? He knew the Spirit of the Lord is the MIND of God. It is His very life, power and character that He gives to us. But how does the Spirit of the Father come to us? THROUGH Jesus Christ His Son. Look:

Revelation 5:1,6,7 Acts 2:32-33

Peter, speaking to the crowd on the day of Pentecost, explains what has just happened, and what does he say? That Jesus had received the Holy Spirit FROM the Father, and Jesus HIMSELF gives that Spirit - that life and power of the Father - to the disciples. Do you see?
John 20:19-22 Titus 3:4-6

Do you see? The Holy Spirit, which is the life, mind and power of God the Father comes to us through His beloved Son Jesus Christ. It is that 'one Spirit' which they both share, which is why Jesus said in John 14:23 that both He and the Father would dwell in us.

So the Holy Spirit is the divine life of the Father which comes to us through Jesus our Lord. The Holy spirit is not a separate divine being from the Father. We do not know the nature of the Spirit, but we know from the Bible that it is NOT a separate being who sits on the throne of heaven like the Father and His Son, as Revelation tells us that only TWO beings - God and the Lamb sit on the throne for all eternity (Revelation 22:1)

WHY WE REJECT THE TRINITY

As you can see, the Bible clearly teaches that there is 'one God' the Father - A personal divine being. There is also the Son of God the Father, Jesus Christ our Lord - another personal divine being - the divine Son of God, begotten of the Father, as a true Son in eternity past before anything was created. And the Holy Spirit is the divine life, mind and power of God the Father, which He gives to us through His Son Jesus who is the 'one mediator' between God and man (1Timothy 2:5). But what does the trinity doctrine teach? Well, we saw at the beginning that there are two beliefs regarding the trinity. One is that God is one being consisting of '3 persons' in that one divine being. And the other teaching says that God consists of 3 beings, all co-equal and co-eternal.

Now there are many problems with BOTH of these teachings. The first problem is that the Bible NEVER says 'God is 3 in 1', or that 'God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.' The Bible ONLY ever says that the 'only true God is the Father '(John 17:3 1Corinthians 8:6). Yes, John 1 says that Jesus is God (divine). But that is because He is the SON OF God which makes Jesus 'God' (divine) like His Father. I am human and I have a son, which makes my son human also. But my son is NOT me and I have authority over my son, just as the Father has authority over His Son Jesus.
John 14:28 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Do you see? Jesus said Himself that His Father is greater than He. Does that mean Jesus is some 'lesser god'? No. Jesus is as divine as the Father. But the Father has authority over His Son, being the first, just as Adam had authority over Eve, being the first. And when all things are done, Jesus will be subject unto the Father, as 1Corinthians 15 confirms above. This proves the 'co-equal' Trinity God to be false.
The next problem with BOTH Trinity teachings is that obscure the distinct personalities of God the Father and His Son. According to both Trinity teachings, the Father and Son are just 'role playing'. This destroys the unique and REAL Father and Son relationship between God and His Son. And this takes us unto the next couple of problems. If the Father and His Son are NOT really a Father and Son, then what is God doing? Not speaking the truth! Do you realize the consequences of this? Role playing is acting and acting is NOT truth - it is pretend! So do we serve a PRETEND God? This is serious friends! How can we trust anything in the Bible if God is NOT speaking plain truth?

Is this the teaching of the original Seventh Day Adventist church before it changed it's teachings, or is it maybe the teachings of Herbert Armstrong or a branch of one of these?

 

[metis]

Where is the word essence found in Scripture?

It's not as it is a theological concept mean to try and possibly explain the relationship between God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dogknox20]

No, he isn't. He's the leader of the earthly Church in terms of a point of unity but he isn't the voice of God. That's going too far.

Saint Frankenstein it is good to meet you... In the Old Testament the Prophets were the voice of God, the Priests were the Hands of God! In the new Testament the Bishops take the roll to a degree of the prophet and the Priests are the hands! Jesus gave the KEYS to Peter and only to Peter. Jesus made Peter the Shepherd of God' flock!

John 21:16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Saint Frankenstein notice verse 17 (above) God from heaven kept Peter from error!

No, he isn't. He's the leader of the earthly Church in terms of a point of unity but he isn't the voice of God. That's going too far.

When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he is speaking for God! Jesus established One Church before he ascended.... It was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church with the Key holder as head! All others were formed by men! Men such as Luther, Zwindel, Russell, Calvin, King Kenry etc.. All church that are NOT Catholic all who reject the authority of the Pope are protestant they are IN PROTEST against God!

 

[Pipiripi]

Is this the teaching of the original Seventh Day Adventist church before it changed it's teachings, or is it maybe the teachings of Herbert Armstrong or a branch of one of these?

This teaching is from this person in the Bible. Revelation 12:17 and 14:12. A FEW in the SDA Church.

 

[Pipiripi]

Saint Frankenstein it is good to meet you... In the Old Testament the Prophets were the voice of God, the Priests were the Hands of God! In the new Testament the Bishops take the roll to a degree of the prophet and the Priests are the hands! Jesus gave the KEYS to Peter and only to Peter. Jesus made Peter the Shepherd of God' flock!

John 21:16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Saint Frankenstein notice verse 17 (above) God from heaven kept Peter from error!


When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he is speaking for God! Jesus established One Church before he ascended.... It was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church with the Key holder as head! All others were formed by men! Men such as Luther, Zwindel, Russell, Calvin, King Kenry etc.. All church that are NOT Catholic all who reject the authority of the Pope are protestant they are IN PROTEST against God!

God first church is from the New Testament. Not the Catholic Church of Rome.

 

[Pipiripi]

You're not interpreting this right. Jesus was not "begotten as a true Son in eternity past before anything was created." That is the pagan conception, of gods begetting gods, which was wrongly adopted by High Trinitarians in their endeavour to reconcile Jewish theology and Greek philosophy.

John 1:1 tells us that the Word was with God and the Word was God. So the Word was not "begotten" by definition.

You need to develop a better theory, I think.

God is best conceived of as a spiritual unity of three revealed spiritual personalities, but where one personality, the Father, predominates and lives and acts in the other two, and alone has the right to be denoted as "true God" (1 John 5:20).

If the WORD is Jesus, why God called Him my BELOVED SON? Why John 3:16? Why Hebrews 1:1-12? Why Jesus speak with John in Revelation 1:1-8, specially verse 8?

 

[LightofTruth]

Saint Frankenstein it is good to meet you... In the Old Testament the Prophets were the voice of God, the Priests were the Hands of God! In the new Testament the Bishops take the roll to a degree of the prophet and the Priests are the hands! Jesus gave the KEYS to Peter and only to Peter. Jesus made Peter the Shepherd of God' flock!

John 21:16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Saint Frankenstein notice verse 17 (above) God from heaven kept Peter from error!


When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he is speaking for God! Jesus established One Church before he ascended.... It was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church with the Key holder as head! All others were formed by men! Men such as Luther, Zwindel, Russell, Calvin, King Kenry etc.. All church that are NOT Catholic all who reject the authority of the Pope are protestant they are IN PROTEST against God!

Peter was not a Trinitarian. And neither was/is Jesus

 

[eik]

If the WORD is Jesus, why God called Him my BELOVED SON? Why John 3:16? Why Hebrews 1:1-12? Why Jesus speak with John in Revelation 1:1-8, specially verse 8?

Verse 8 & 17 associates the "first and the last" with The Lord God and with Jesus Christ.

The son denotes the man, always. Only be extension is what is in heaven denoted by "son."

In Heb "son" is introduced by "in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son." That is the man Jesus. So every reference to son is primarily a reference to the man Jesus. The son is then assumed to be eternal, but it doesn't infer that God begat a "son" in heaven.

 

[Dogknox20]

Peter was not a Trinitarian. And neither was/is Jesus

LightofTruth I hope all is well... I reply; 2 Peter 2:1 tells you "From Among Christians will come false teachers"! Christians are not among false teachers the False teachers are AMONG Christians!
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
The verse is very clear.. They are false teachers, Heretics! Arius was a Christian until he was removed as a False Teacher a Heretic! Arius the False Teacher taught Jesus is NOT God! Christians removed him, all who believe as Arius are NOT Christian!
LightofTruth You cannot be inside and outside at the same time... Arius was placed outside because he rejected the teaching of scriptures and of Christians the teaching is: "Jesus is God!"

2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
LightofTruth The following verse #2 tells you; Arius rejected "The Way of Truth"! Proving; "Jesus is God" is the Truth! To say differently you must reject the words of God you must reject what Christians believe!

 

[Dogknox20]

God first church is from the New Testament. Not the Catholic Church of Rome.

Pipiripi I must say.. "You are WRONG"!
Ignatius of Antioch 110 A.D.
“Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Pipiripi did you see it? Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!?
I point out "Eucharist" is the Body of Jesus in the form of bread! Also the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established has BISHOPS! 110 A.D.
Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John! Clearly the One Church Jesus established was named "CATHOLIC"! 110 A.D.

 

[metis]

Peter was not a Trinitarian.

What's your evidence for that?

Frankly, most theologians I have read from various faiths believe that it is likely that views of Jesus vis-a-vis God were not likely uniform, at least in the first century Church. Indeed, the Ebionites seemed to have a different take on this relationship but even that's not clear in terms of what it might have been.

OTOH, there was the prevailing belief that Jesus was doing God's bidding and that he was truly of God in some way(s) at the least. The Trinitarian concept is an attempt by the 4th century Church to try and explain what they believed it likely was, but the use of "the Mystery of the Trinity" has long been used by the Church to show that our finite minds cannot well comprehend God's infinite "mind".