IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
You are wrong. True Christians believe that the Bible is meant to be taken literally. Plain and simple.
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What about the 7-day creation story?
- Thread starter look3467
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You are wrong. True Christians believe that the Bible is meant to be taken literally. Plain and simple.
Then how do you explain Jesus parables or illustrations? [Matt 13v34]
Isn't a parable or illustration a story used to teach and not a literal happening?
Protester
My conservative friend and fellow Baptist.
I was raised a Southern Baptist so you might get an idea of my beliefs.
My foundation is as solid as a rock in Jesus Christ, thus nothing can move me from it and or affect me in any way.
By that I mean is that I have studied various religious beliefs and have prayed and asked boldly for answers to my questions. And I believe God has granted me understanding of which none of the main stream denominations can answer.
So with that brief introduction I will now respond to your post.
If a baby remained a baby all its life than that baby would not have ever experienced life by growing up.
But because the baby must grow and gain knowledge, the age, knowledge gained and experience will bring that child to a point where that child will become independent in thought, or rather as its own god.
At that point, the child becomes as like Adam.
The curse is because of ones becoming a god: a separate entity from God will not co-exist apart from God unless that entity is in God. Now......... As we are now in Jesus.
The bible clearly states: 1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
Meaning each one of us is responsible for our own sins and not those of Adam and or our fathers.
What was imputed was not the supposed Adams sins but rather the consequence of becoming our own god as like the manner of Adam. (Lower case g)
You see, babes were Adam and Eve until their eyes were opened. When they gained knowledge to become their own person, thats the point, were the consequences of being a god kicked in.
To that issue is what Christ addressed by His death.
Just as the first Adam we all die, so by the second Adam we shall all live.
What part of that do we have in it? Absolutely nothing, for it is all Gods doings.
So, the little darlings no matter how cute they are, are not innocent. >>>Protester
So you think that a baby born, knows no sin is lost as like one of us who do know sin?
You believe God would condemn a baby for not having a choice in being born?
If what you believe is true, would it not have been better if that baby were never born if that baby died say at the age one?
Destiny Baby ) . This is a thoughtful look at what happens to infants who die -- no limbo, by the way.>>>Protester
Grappling for and answer to that question the writer seems to have.
The only requirement for becoming lost is understood in the following verse: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
A baby has no way of knowing anything about what is good or what is evil, therefore, not in a lost condition. The conclusion is that that baby is innocent and has not become as one of us .
I go with the 6 day 24 hours to the day creation belief, What is the biblical Creation story? But yes, some people seem to have a problem with the 24 hour day, though that might be somewhat explained by, There are of course just like when Bill Clinton ask what "is," is. People don't seem to know how many hours there are in a day, here's on explanation of it. How 6 days looks like 16 billion years, was looked by Dr. Gerald Schroeder on Zola Levitt program some years back. unfortunately the Levitt site use to have Internet video of various programs, but apparently not any more, but there are problems with that as well, CreationEvolutionDesign: Re: Schroeder Science The best thing is to take the Bible in a literal/historical way, i.e., Proper Biblical Interpretation where these words aren't pointed out but certainly mentioned, What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
What is the picture message of the story of Jonah and the Whale?
By the same token what is the picture message of the seven day creation story?
The sacrifice of Jesus, was it for an hour or for all time?
If you say for all time, then the hour Jesus died is not an hour in time but all time.
So we have to look at the message as mature spiritual adults as to Gods works.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Blessings, AJ
My conservative friend and fellow Baptist.
I was raised a Southern Baptist so you might get an idea of my beliefs.
My foundation is as solid as a rock in Jesus Christ, thus nothing can move me from it and or affect me in any way.
By that I mean is that I have studied various religious beliefs and have prayed and asked boldly for answers to my questions. And I believe God has granted me understanding of which none of the main stream denominations can answer.
So with that brief introduction I will now respond to your post.
Not so! You see the question as to disobedience by Adam and Eve is not what it seems to be.
If a baby remained a baby all its life than that baby would not have ever experienced life by growing up.
But because the baby must grow and gain knowledge, the age, knowledge gained and experience will bring that child to a point where that child will become independent in thought, or rather as its own god.
At that point, the child becomes as like Adam.
The curse is because of ones becoming a god: a separate entity from God will not co-exist apart from God unless that entity is in God. Now......... As we are now in Jesus.
The bible clearly states: 1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
Meaning each one of us is responsible for our own sins and not those of Adam and or our fathers.
What was imputed was not the supposed Adams sins but rather the consequence of becoming our own god as like the manner of Adam. (Lower case g)
You see, babes were Adam and Eve until their eyes were opened. When they gained knowledge to become their own person, thats the point, were the consequences of being a god kicked in.
To that issue is what Christ addressed by His death.
Just as the first Adam we all die, so by the second Adam we shall all live.
What part of that do we have in it? Absolutely nothing, for it is all Gods doings.
So, the little darlings no matter how cute they are, are not innocent. >>>Protester
So you think that a baby born, knows no sin is lost as like one of us who do know sin?
You believe God would condemn a baby for not having a choice in being born?
If what you believe is true, would it not have been better if that baby were never born if that baby died say at the age one?
Destiny Baby ) . This is a thoughtful look at what happens to infants who die -- no limbo, by the way.>>>Protester
Grappling for and answer to that question the writer seems to have.
The only requirement for becoming lost is understood in the following verse: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
A baby has no way of knowing anything about what is good or what is evil, therefore, not in a lost condition. The conclusion is that that baby is innocent and has not become as one of us .
I go with the 6 day 24 hours to the day creation belief, What is the biblical Creation story? But yes, some people seem to have a problem with the 24 hour day, though that might be somewhat explained by, There are of course just like when Bill Clinton ask what "is," is. People don't seem to know how many hours there are in a day, here's on explanation of it. How 6 days looks like 16 billion years, was looked by Dr. Gerald Schroeder on Zola Levitt program some years back. unfortunately the Levitt site use to have Internet video of various programs, but apparently not any more, but there are problems with that as well, CreationEvolutionDesign: Re: Schroeder Science The best thing is to take the Bible in a literal/historical way, i.e., Proper Biblical Interpretation where these words aren't pointed out but certainly mentioned, What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
What is the picture message of the story of Jonah and the Whale?
By the same token what is the picture message of the seven day creation story?
The sacrifice of Jesus, was it for an hour or for all time?
If you say for all time, then the hour Jesus died is not an hour in time but all time.
So we have to look at the message as mature spiritual adults as to Gods works.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Blessings, AJ
You need to define "true Christians".
Not to make light of your words, but there are no medium, luke warm, cold or hot Christians.
You are one or you are not period.
When Jesus died on the cross, did He die for only those who thought themselves to be righteous, or did He die for all mankind?
The word states: Eze 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
Question is....what was it that was lost that God had to save?
The whole creation story was lost and Got worked to save it from that condition in Jesus Christ.
Thus you have the whole creation story re-created in just one day.
Blessings, AJ
In Revelation there are seven Christian congregations mentioned that Jesus was Lord over them. Laodica was one of the Christian congregations mentioned.-Rev. [3vs14,15]. All seven congregations were 'true Christians' but needed reproving at times. The Laodicean congregation was considered by Jesus as being neither cold nor hot but lukewarm.
As far as Jesus dying for all mankind:
Jesus shed blood cleanses from all sin according to 1st John [1v7].
But, if one commits the 'unforgivable sin' he is not covered.
-Matt 12v32; Mark 3v29; Heb 6vs4-6; 10vs26,27
So, the ransom is for all [1st Tim 2v6] but some commit the unforgivable sin.
That is why Matthew [20v28 B] says Jesus' ransom covers 'many' not all.
-Mark 10v45
Adam lost for us healthy human perfection of sound heart, mind and body.
Jesus came to reverse what Adam lost for us starting at the time of Jesus messianic [1000-year] reign over earth. -Romans 5 vs12-21; 6 vs7,23
The whole Jesus effort was to save the soul of mankind. The soul of mankind consists of every soul, not one should be lost.
The letters to the seven churches I understood as the condition of each state of the human soul prior to the payment in full by the sacrifice of Jesus.
Understanding that Jesus had to be all that was described in each those seven church in order to fulfill them in complete obedience.
Just as when Jesus stated " Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
God was pleased in Jesus for He did all that is said in that verse above.
But when it came to mankind the following verse applied: Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
You see, Jesus had to be all that was not Jesus in order to take all that was humanities and nail it to the cross n order to rescue humanity from its lost condition.
The book of Revelation is just about that task that Jesus had to go through in order to accomplish His mission.
If Jesus could not be all that we are, we could not be all that He is.
So in Him we are all that we can be in spite of our short comings as miserable human beings.
Paul stated it correctly : "Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
Simple.....Jesus!
Jesus' blood does cleanse us from all our sins at our repentance, but than again, repentance is only temporary action affecting our relationship with God towards or blessings or cursing, but nothing to do with the work of our salvation, for that alone belongs to God.
Jesus was accused of blasphemy which by all account and unpardonable sin.
You did notice that I said "accused of"?
Jesus could not be pardoned as the one who had the sins of the world on His shoulders. That is the reason why Jesus did not get an answer from God when He cried out to God "Why has thou forsaken me".
Jesus had to go to hell because it is there that His new creation begun.
He visited those in prison and liberated all of them on the third day, thus begun His new kingdom.
By such work, God in Jesus covered all His bases and rescued that which was lost.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Only God could save us all!
Blessings, AJ
Our behavior is accounted only while in the flesh, for they are good works or not.
Our salvation is accounted unto God while we were in a dead state spiritually, thus all of humanity could not by means of righteous works account anything towards salvation of the soul.
Mankind became lost because of the creation work of God, and not because we ourselves
were disobedient.
There is nothing mankind can do to save itself, save God.
Blessings, AJ
Our salvation is accounted unto God while we were in a dead state spiritually, thus all of humanity could not by means of righteous works account anything towards salvation of the soul.
Mankind became lost because of the creation work of God, and not because we ourselves
were disobedient.
There is nothing mankind can do to save itself, save God.
Blessings, AJ
Agree there is nothing mankind can do to save itself.
According to James [1vs14,15] each one is drawn out by one's own desire.
All are created as free moral agents with the ability to choose without interference from anyone else.
That is why at Deuteronomy [30v19] the people were given a free-will choice.
The people of Deuteronomy [32v5] were disobedient all by themselves.
I agree with you totally there just as long as we limit it to the time spent on this earth.
That exercise is either going to bless us or condemn us.
But we will not lose our souls because God is the soul Savior.
When God worked to save "That which was lost" means God saves that which was lost without no help from us.
He did incorporated mankind's deficiency's , weaknesses, greed in order to render their power useless when it came to the salvation of the soul.
That is why we can overcome them in Jesus.
James speaks well to the power that is within us that produces good works by faith, but not the other way around.
James also is speaking, in my opinion, to the our works as being an indication of that power within manifesting itself.
The whole premise of my view is that God created us with a fault, and that fault was not intentional but a by product of the ability of our becoming as gods.
By no fault of our own he saves us-period.
Our ability as gods to choose is not taken away but left to us as a free gift and without penalty of death.
But we are accountable for our behavior and due and payable while on earth only.
Blessings, AJ
REV 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
The second death is "the lake of fire": revelation 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
That is the second death.
The lake of fire is being immersed into god's word, or baptized with fire. Over comers of the second church are not hurt by being immersed into god's word, because the second step towards god is "believe".
*Those not found written in the lamb's book of life are cast in: are the unborn yet.
Yet unborn are covered by God's word or immersed into God's grace.
*Death and hell are cast in: Fulfilled the day of the cross, the devil and the beast, and the false prophet all cast in
*Fulfilling the day of the cross: as we all become one, as grapes in a winepress being trodden on.
The wrath of God fell on Jesus for us, vengeance is mine saith the lord=all vengeance falls on Christ for all mankind. I will repay=make payment for. Wine of the wrath of god is the blood of Christ.
*Jesus is about to die the second time.(first time: 2- Samuel 12:18 and it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.)
With in this second death; death and hell will be consumed.
REV 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Death and hell have just been immersed of fulfilled by Jesus dying and descending into hell.
Let me speak about the ******* child for a moment.
The picture of that unwanted ******* child, left to die on its own, dying on the seventh day. The number 7 is significant here.
EZEKIEL 16:4. And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor
swaddled at all.
Note the contrast on the following verse as to swaddling.
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Jesus' birth was the day of the cross, they did not have time to wash him, swaddling cloths were burial rags, they had not wrapped him except in a linen cloth.
EZEKIEL 16:5. None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
THE TOMB WAS IN A GARDEN (FIELD)
EZEKIEL 16:6. And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
Jesus was still covered with his own blood, there in the tomb.
EZEKIEL 16:7. I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
SOLOMON 7:7. This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
EZEKIEL 16:8. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.
EZEKIEL 16:9. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
EZEKIEL 16:10. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
EZEKIEL 16:11. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
EZEKIEL 16:12. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
A crown? Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
A crown of glory after a crown of thorns.
Blessings, AJ
The second death is "the lake of fire": revelation 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
That is the second death.
The lake of fire is being immersed into god's word, or baptized with fire. Over comers of the second church are not hurt by being immersed into god's word, because the second step towards god is "believe".
*Those not found written in the lamb's book of life are cast in: are the unborn yet.
Yet unborn are covered by God's word or immersed into God's grace.
*Death and hell are cast in: Fulfilled the day of the cross, the devil and the beast, and the false prophet all cast in
*Fulfilling the day of the cross: as we all become one, as grapes in a winepress being trodden on.
The wrath of God fell on Jesus for us, vengeance is mine saith the lord=all vengeance falls on Christ for all mankind. I will repay=make payment for. Wine of the wrath of god is the blood of Christ.
*Jesus is about to die the second time.(first time: 2- Samuel 12:18 and it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.)
With in this second death; death and hell will be consumed.
REV 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Death and hell have just been immersed of fulfilled by Jesus dying and descending into hell.
Let me speak about the ******* child for a moment.
The picture of that unwanted ******* child, left to die on its own, dying on the seventh day. The number 7 is significant here.
EZEKIEL 16:4. And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor
swaddled at all.
Note the contrast on the following verse as to swaddling.
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Jesus' birth was the day of the cross, they did not have time to wash him, swaddling cloths were burial rags, they had not wrapped him except in a linen cloth.
EZEKIEL 16:5. None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
THE TOMB WAS IN A GARDEN (FIELD)
EZEKIEL 16:6. And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
Jesus was still covered with his own blood, there in the tomb.
EZEKIEL 16:7. I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
SOLOMON 7:7. This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
EZEKIEL 16:8. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.
EZEKIEL 16:9. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
EZEKIEL 16:10. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
EZEKIEL 16:11. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
EZEKIEL 16:12. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
A crown? Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
A crown of glory after a crown of thorns.
Blessings, AJ