What Americans Think about Evolution

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Theologians have also always argued that the Universe began to exist a ridiculous short amount of time ago. If you're going to cherry pick, at least pick cherries from stories and myths that don't contain so many easily disprovable mistakes.

Not every Christian theologian is a young earth creationists, ruff.

And yes, many astronomers believed that the Universe was static and eternal pre-Edwin-Hubble in the 1920's. But guess what - they changed their mind when nev evidence was presented!!

Yeah, and while that new evidence was new to scientists, it was old news to theologians, and by old news I mean over 3,000 years old to be exact.

What would it take for you to change your mind about your beliefs?

A lot.

 

[metis]

Christianity borrowed what from Judaism?...

Jesus is actually a historical figure, metis. And if what the bible records about this man is correct, then Judaism becomes quite irrelevant and so does the "borrow" theory.

You have never studied the roots of Christianity at all? Really? You don't understand that Jesus and the apostles were Jews operating from a Jewish paradigm set by Torah and Tanakh? Really? You're not aware that somethings like the "Sermon on the Mount" and Jesus' use of parables is very Jewish? Really? You're not aware that the whole issue of "the Messiah" and whom that might be is established in Torah and Tanakh? Really? You're not aware that Jesus' comments were a larger part of a commentary system that we've been using for roughly 2500 years? Really? You're not aware that the concept of "church" was actually from the Jewish concept of "synagogue"? Really?

I think I see where your problem lies.

 

[metis]

It contradicts evolution...but it doesn't have to contradict the big bang because it is in agreement with the big bang, which is nothing more or less than a "finite" universe implication.

Depends on how you define "evolution" in context. The evolution of life is not dependent on the BB. Long before we know anything about the BB, scientists the world over were well aware of the evolution of life.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

You have never studied the roots of Christianity at all? Really? You don't understand that Jesus and the apostles were Jews operating from a Jewish paradigm set by Torah and Tanakh? Really? You're not aware that somethings like the "Sermon on the Mount" and Jesus' use of parables is very Jewish? Really? You're not aware that the whole issue of "the Messiah" and whom that might be is established in Torah and Tanakh? Really? You're not aware that Jesus' comments were a larger part of a commentary system that we've been using for roughly 2500 years? Really? You're not aware that the concept of "church" was actually from the Jewish concept of "synagogue"? Really?

I think I see where your problem lies.

Then why aren't Jews considered Christian and vice versa? Did you ever think about that? Christians get atonement of sins based on Jesus Christ, which is quite Un-Jewish. That is the most fundemental difference...i just don't like the term "borrowed"...but whatever.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yeah, and while that new evidence was new to scientists, it was old news to theologians, and by old news I mean over 3,000 years old to be exact.

Evidence? Quotes?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Anyways, as I said before, theologians have always argued that the universe began to exist, while these scientists that you adore so much have always said that the universe is static and eternal...so if anything, the scientific method that you worship has confirmed what theologians have been saying for over 3,000 years.

No, not really. Looks like someone is reading pop science (mis)representations of contemporary cosmology again.

 

[Simurgh]

Anyways, as I said before, theologians have always argued that the universe began to exist, while these scientists that you adore so much have always said that the universe is static and eternal...so if anything, the scientific method that you worship has confirmed what theologians have been saying for over 3,000 years.

You do realize of course that the field of theology is not 3000 years old, right? As a formal field of inquiry it is maybe 1800 years old at the most, if we are generous. Only with the advent of universities do we have theology as a systematic discipline of religious thought and specialized training.

According to the accepted definition, theology is
a) the study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions.
b) a system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions.
c) a course of specialized religious study usually at a college or seminary.

So who exactly are your theologians of 3000 year ago? And why would they speak to the science of cosmogony? 3000years ago astrology was the science that dealt with the stars and their value as portents of future events. The study of stars was used to divine the future of men. A bit far off the beaten path when you deal with the origins of the universe , multiverses, string theory and the big bang.

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Yeah..so let me see if I get this straight...abiogenesis, on your view, is a mindless and blind process. Yet, this mindless and blind process was able to do something that intelligent humans with eyes hasn't been able to do, and that is produce life from nonliving materials? So a mindless and blind process is more smart than intelligent humans? Wow.

So, a process performs its function...and that somehow makes it smarter than us?

If I place a 3 ton boulder over your head, and say "human! Make the boulder go up.. Gravity, make the boulder go down!" And you get crushed, are you dumber than gravity?

Do you spontaneously create heat better than something that's on fire? Or is fire "more smart" than you?

"Mindless blind processes" perform functions. We use science to learn how. Some things we can artificially replicate, some we can improve upon, some we can't.

A process is not "more smart" than we are, based on if we understand or can replicate it. A process isn't intelligent.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Not every Christian theologian is a young earth creationists, ruff.

I have yet to meet someone who wasn't a YEC who didn't accept evolution in some form or another. Theistic evolution at least means they acknowledge the fact that the evidence that it happened is insurmountable. They continue to put in the folly axiom that their god must have had something to do with it but I suppose its some form of progress.

Yeah, and while that new evidence was new to scientists, it was old news to theologians, and by old news I mean over 3,000 years old to be exact.

This is false. Several different sects of ancient religion, one of which was ancient Judaism, held the concept that there was a genesis of some kind to all creation. However the thought process that begat such concepts were actually rather childish and misunderstood. It was formed from the thought that you and I had a beginning and that it must have had a beginning. And yet we also cannot imagine things not "being". We cannot (and still cannot) imagine a beginning of time and existence. So we then introduce the concept of "god" as something that then makes sense in comparison. He made it and he stands outside it. This sort of childish thinking and pseudo logic is not even close to the scientific understand we have today. It does not originate from the same through process and fundamentally is distinct all together.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Evidence? Quotes?

Gen 1:1

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Gen 1:1

The Amazing Spiderman:Vol 1 Issue 1 Page 8.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Evidence? Quotes?

It was written in the Scrolls of Skelos...during the Hyborean Age of Conan the Barbarian. I thought everyone knew that already. It's practically scientific fact.

 

[idav]

Gen 1:1

With that verse you feel the hubble telescope didnt show anything new?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It was written in the Scrolls of Skelos...during the Hyborean Age of Conan the Barbarian. I thought everyone knew that already. It's practically scientific fact.

Lol!

 

[outhouse]

I was speaking of the scientists of the past, you know, like Einstein and anyone during that time frame. That was the leading view in science, that the universe was static and eternal. All you have to do is google it and you will find dozens of links on the "big blunder" of Einstein.

That is the difference between science and theology.


Science grows and gains knowledge.


Religion has never been history or science, it is why it is outlawed from public schools in science classes.



Would you be more happy if we reverted to barbaric times and terrorism reigned when religion ran the governments, and used poor translations to torture people?

 

[metis]

Then why aren't Jews considered Christian and vice versa? Did you ever think about that? Christians get atonement of sins based on Jesus Christ, which is quite Un-Jewish. That is the most fundemental difference...i just don't like the term "borrowed"...but whatever.

Why should Jews be considered "Christian" since we pre-date Christianity? Secondly, if you have a concordance, look up "forgive" and it's variations, and what you will rather clearly read is that God can and will forgive us, even without the Temple sacrifices.

 

[Avi1001]

Why should Jews be considered "Christian" since we pre-date Christianity? Secondly, if you have a concordance, look up "forgive" and it's variations, and what you will rather clearly read is that God can and will forgive us, even without the Temple sacrifices.

G-d forgiving man is more anthropomorphic than I think makes sense. Besides, we rarely see man forgiving fellow man. And based on what we do to our environment .... pollution, neglect, etc., it may not be possible for our environment to forgive us either.

 

[metis]

G-d forgiving man is more anthropomorphic than I think makes sense. Besides, we rarely see man forgiving fellow man. And based on what we do to our environment .... pollution, neglect, etc., it may not be possible for our environment to forgive us either.

Shhhhhh! I'm pushing the party line. [just between you and I, ya]

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Why should Jews be considered "Christian" since we pre-date Christianity? Secondly, if you have a concordance, look up "forgive" and it's variations, and what you will rather clearly read is that God can and will forgive us, even without the Temple sacrifices.

And God will forgive us based on the sacrifice of Jesus. However, there is a heaven, and lets just hope that both of us get there.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

The Amazing Spiderman:Vol 1 Issue 1 Page 8.

Did Peter Parker state that the universe had a beginning in that source?