What And, More Importantly, Why?

[nonbeliever_92]

Agreed, but for the sake of argument, there could still not be. You have no proof after all. Neither do we have any proof they exist.


Well, what if you believe they may be? If you say there could be a god, are you not an agnostic?

In these instances, I don't need evidence that they do exist, but evidence that they could exist, there is a difference. Belief in aliens is not far fetched because i have organisms exist on this planet and it wouldn't be completely absurd to believe that there could be organisms on other planets. Belief that there couldn't be aliens isn't completely absurd either because no one has actually observed exact life-forming elements on different planets, meaning that there has been no known earth-like planet found, and I say earth-like because earth is the only "perfect" template we have to standardize life.

Belief in the possiblity of god isn't absurd either, we have seen people make things so it wouldn't be too far fetched to believe that there may be some "ultimate" being out there who created the universe, albeit we still do not have an origin to the is ultimate being, but that is besides the point.

We also require evidence of probablility, however. It is highly probable that aliens could exist. It is highly improbable that a god exists however.

Makes sense, but people do. If something makes sense, then they follow it. Same as you believe there is (probably? ) no God, because it makes sense to you, I believe there is a God, because it makes sense to me. Indeed, many an "atheist" I have talked to who has in effect held such a wonderous view of the universe and nature itself that they have themselves held it to be in effect a god. ... that sentence sounded like Yoda it did. Feed my son now I must.


Or offering something I like, or a good salesman.

Sounds like you were talking about pantheists when you said "atheist" who hold the universe as "god" and i ask: and...? Pantheism is an atheism of sorts, by definition, pantheism is belief that the universe itself is god, theism is belief in a supernatural creator. Now unless this pantheist says things similar to the universe controlling our lives like a supernatural god does, then there is a problem in which they are not an atheist.

 

[Breathe]

In these instances, I don't need evidence that they do exist,

Mmm, religious flavour!

but evidence that they could exist, there is a difference. Belief in aliens is not far fetched because i have organisms exist on this planet and it wouldn't be completely absurd to believe that there could be organisms on other planets.

I understand. However, what you say isn't much different from someone saying "Belief in God is not far fetched because of ...".

Belief that there couldn't be aliens isn't completely absurd either because no one has actually observed exact life-forming elements on different planets, meaning that there has been no known earth-like planet found, and I say earth-like because earth is the only "perfect" template we have to standardize life.

Mmm, religious flavour again!
"Belief in God isn't completely absurd either because nobody knows what happens when we die". Same principle behind this. And it's like, since there's an absence of evidence doesn't mean there's evidence of absence - "there's no evidence for aliens (by this I mean extra-terrestrial intelligent life) so that means there are no aliens" is effectively your argument using aliens instead of God.

Belief in the possiblity of god isn't absurd either, we have seen people make things so it wouldn't be too far fetched to believe that there may be some "ultimate" being out there who created the universe, albeit we still do not have an origin to the is ultimate being, but that is besides the point.

Depends on what your view of God is. You could follow Deism, a creator who leaves us alone or is unaware of us or who just does not generally react with the world, for example.

We also require evidence of probablility, however. It is highly probable that aliens could exist. It is highly improbable that a god exists however.

I disagree. I believe they're both highly probably. Why are aliens probably and a God improbable? Isn't that just biased on your part?

Sounds like you were talking about pantheists when you said "atheist" who hold the universe as "god" and i ask: and...? Pantheism is an atheism of sorts, by definition, pantheism is belief that the universe itself is god, theism is belief in a supernatural creator. Now unless this pantheist says things similar to the universe controlling our lives like a supernatural god does, then there is a problem in which they are not an atheist.

Forgive me, but your last sentence sounded religious again. ""If they don't believe in the ressurection of Christ, then they aren't Christian" - that kind of thing.

I know what pantheism is dearie. If pantheism is akin to atheism, then when are they seperate? When does somethingtheism become not atheism? That doesn't even make sense. I'm hungry, feed me.

I suppose it dependson what the pantheist believes, some pantheists may view the world as being "guided" by the universe for example, others may be more pandeists or something.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Belief in god isn't completely absurd because no one knows what god is for sure if even, he exists at all. But god is improbable in that almost all of the attributes given to him by man have been successfully refuted.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Aliens aren't as far fetched as god because we know of celestial object other than earth that have the capabilty of producing life. Sure we have not seen them, but this does not rule them out as non-existant, the same could be said for god. There have been multiple theories on what aliens will look like and what aliens will be capable of doing depending on their environment. There have also been multiple images of god, but they are so fantastic and improbable no one rational could really take them serious.

The difference is distinct in that there are not many people who assert that aliens exist, can't provide what they look like, and somehow define what they can do. There are millions of people who assert that there is a god, but don't provide a defintion nor and yet can still provide attributes.

 

[yearningknight]

First off I definitely like your mentality. However I am a nonbeliever in all ideologies, religions, and even the big bang theory as well. To me science, religion, and philospy all try to answer the same questions where did we come from, why are we here, and where are we going? I believe in no gods, nor theories, nor evolution, nor big bang theory either. Too me they all seem rather similarly weird. I look at life and ask why not worry about the here and now instead of the possiblity of an afterlife. Too me all religions are binding, blindsiding, and controling for all religions strike fear into their believers so that their leaders can control them. I also don't see a point in following a book that was written over two thousand years ago or even longer. I also say why should anyone follow a book that was written by our ancestors to help them control their inhabitants by giving them something to comfort them, to give the meaning or purpose, and to give the hope for a better life after this one. I have studied Satanism, Paganism, Wicca, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Scientology, and a little of Jainism as well and have found similarties in each of them. To me it seems that if there is a god than people in each religion all worship the same one however they do it in different rituals, and prayers, and actions. The main thing two things I have against religions is that they are indoctrinating our youth, and also fundemantlist as well you kill because their god told them to. I think that all child should not be exposed to religion, philosphy, or even science until you think they are able to comprehend them all. well here is a poem that I have written to enlighten you even more on my belief or nonbelief. I must let you know this as well I grew up Baptist then Mormon than became agnostic at twenty-one then atheist at twenty-two. However I am an atheist that considers myself to be my own god and believes in self-perpection for good and evil.

Religion

Recognized by many to be true
Except for those who have
Learned through studying them and found similarities
In each belief which are to
Give hope, comfort, and meaning to life which are all
Instilled into every man and woman’s mind
Overwhelming them with rules of stupidity
Never allowing them to release themselves from their chains of words that bind them.

 

[Breathe]

Aliens aren't as far fetched as god because we know of celestial object other than earth that have the capabilty of producing life. Sure we have not seen them, but this does not rule them out as non-existant, the same could be said for god.

Yep, exactly.
But since we have never encountered any aliens with our senses, then surely it should be, in your view, illogical to believe in them, regardless of the possibility of them existing due to certain criteria?

There have been multiple theories on what aliens will look like and what aliens will be capable of doing depending on their environment. There have also been multiple images of god, but they are so fantastic and improbable no one rational could really take them serious.

Not always. Some of the views of God are very... mature. Some are sky daddies, yes, who wield lightning and/or smite people for messin' with their peoples or doing wrong, but there are many views. Panentheism, Deism, Brahman, Monism...

The difference is distinct in that there are not many people who assert that aliens exist, can't provide what they look like, and somehow define what they can do. There are millions of people who assert that there is a god, but don't provide a defintion nor and yet can still provide attributes.

That's simply because "alien" -> outside of this world, yet "God" -> "??" there are many different theories to what God is. Is God personal, transpersonal, impersonal? Corporeal/non-corporeal? etc. Some views of God border very close to being aliens actually.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

No, by my logic we have proper reason to believe in aliens and not enough reason to believe in a god. Ultimately people who believe in god fall back on faith, and they will most likely assert that god exists. This is not the case for most of the arguments that say that aliens most likely exists.

Ex.: I believe somewhere in Florida there is balding middle aged man whose name is Frank, he is unmarried, he's never been married, and he has no children. Frank might be real.

This is vastly different than:

I believe somewhere in Makalok there is a purple cat-like dragon named WooKoo who looks down over earth and can control the winds. Now Makalok and WooKoo can't be seen, heard, or observed in anyway nor can they be physically demonstrated in anyway, but they both exist.

With the first belief there is high reasonability for Frank to exist. The evidence: There is a place called Florida. There are balding men. There are men named Frank. There are unmarried men. There are men who've never been married. There are men who's never had children. At this point I can't say that Frank doesn't exist, but I can neither say that he does. It is most likely though that there is a guy named Frank who's bald, single, and childless, and also just happens to live in Florida.

With the second belief there is no evidence nor reason that can say that Makalok and its resident cat-like dragon, WooKoo, exists. With the evidence now I can only best equate Makalok and WooKoo with nothing assuming that they exist at all.

 

[Rayne]

I believe in a single incomprehensible force that controls all things around us. I believe that all religions end up worshiping this same force in their own ways. I believe that the Gods and such that make up different religions are just that religions expression of that incomprehensible force, or ultimate deity. I worship the God and Goddess of Wicca as expressions of this force. I believe this because what I've experienced in my life leads me to believe this. I'll never tell another person that I think I'm correct, and that my beliefs are the correct ones, because that's one of the primary animosities I have against Christians. It bothers me when people claim they are right, when nobody can ever really know. Until we're dead at least.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

3.) I don’t have belief in god(s) because religion inhibits and slows intellectual progress.

This is sheer bigotry, and unworthy of further comment.

How so? This has been demonstrated multiple times.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

How so? This has been demonstrated multiple times.

Because Religion as it is defined and what you are talking about are different concepts.

GhK.

 

[Runewolf1973]

My belief is quite simple. I believe that everything that exists is Spirit, which is not in my mind something "supernatural". It is the natural activating, causative principal or factor that all energy and matter has. It is the vibrational force of an atom, the consciousness of a human, the rotation of the stars, even the force of life itself. All this to me is what I consider to be Spirit. It is all part of the same animating factor by which all of existence moves, changes form and has an action/reaction. I am an Animist.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

No, religion often does impede upon the advancement and the progression of knowledge in a society. The Dark Ages, the current problem of Intelligent Design Supporters attempting to get creationism taught in school, the church trying to kill Galileo, and many more examples. How so is this bigotry?

 

[Mr Cheese]

I dont beleive in Solipsism, materialism and reductionism

Oh and flying spider monkeys

 

[nonbeliever_92]

yeah, how is what i said bigotry?