What annoys me about this "debate"

[Panda]

What really annoys me about the so called debate on Evolution, there is no real debate amongst biologists, is that so many people call it false without understanding it. I mean why does someone who done a quick internet search think they know more than someone has has spent 10, 20 or even 30 years of their life studying biology. I don't see these same people trying to contradict the engineers who designed their computer or the doctor who treats them in a hospital?

So why on this one subject do they question the experts? I am not a biologist, I know the basics but for other things I have to put my trust in the people who are the experts.

 

[Sunstone]

Spot on, Panda! I couldn't have said it better. Have a cigar! :cigar:

There is no real debate among scientists. And, it seems to me, you've got be doing some very strange thinking indeed to believe that a half million or more scientists are all engaged in a massive, world-wide conspiracy to lie about evolution.

 

[Badran]

I hardly know anything about evolution, but from little i know there is no basis to oppose it the way it is opposed. To me thats not much of a problem with the idea of people questioning the experts, even if they all agree, but more with the fact that in most of these cases the questioning is baseless.

A lot however contribute to the number of people who either not accept, not care or outright oppose evolution. Big part of that is misconceptions. Some people think evolution is an attempt to disprove god, others refuse the idea that human beings descended from monkeys etc...

Of course the negative aspect of the existing religious thought in this case contributes for a major part. By that i mean that when religion stops people from advancing their knowledge, or using proper methods to judge something, but rather dismiss it from a point of ignorance means that religion is a bad thing in their life.

 

[LuisDantas]

Spot on, Panda. And thanks for your comments, Badran. It is always nice to have such feedback.

It seems to me that the "debate" goes on only because the Creationist side is so emotional about it. As someone who cares about religion, I am embarassed by the lengths and tactics that end up being used by them.

Come to think of it, militant Creationism (I would rather call them evolution-deniers, but let's go on) is not so much a problem as an indicator of the real, significant problems.

It is not a problem in itself that there are people who doubt evolution; evolution is supposed to stand on its own merits, regardless of doubts - and it does.

And yes it does not matter, apparently. This so-called controversy is about acceptance and other psychological and sociological issues, not science itself.

An useful comparison can be made with Panspermy, the idea that life originated. It is not really supported by current scientific knowledge and there is little in the way of acceptance of it in the scientific community, and it doesn't even explain much in its basic form.

Yet Panspermists rarely become involved in ugly discussions with anyone else, because they are rarely motivated by fear. They have no need to believe in a conspiracy to silence them. They don't feel threatened, and that seems to make all the difference, making them willing and able of actually learning from the available facts.

 

[Yerda]

Spot on, Panda! I couldn't have said it better. Have a cigar! :cigar:

There is no real debate among scientists. And, it seems to me, you've got be doing some very strange thinking indeed to believe that a half million or more scientists are all engaged in a massive, world-wide conspiracy to lie about evolution.

Of course, if your livelyhood depended on saying the things liberals want to hear, and finding the things liberals want to find, you'd toe the line as well. It's a plain fact that scientists get all their money from liberals, and left wing atheist organisations and that any right-wing, Christian, scientist is censored and any debate stifled with talk of "consensus".

You are blind to this because you are a socialist, athiest, whiny useless liberal who just sits about moaning about the world all day (but still somehow controls the media and the scienctific research programs, probably at night).

 

[Sweetvoice]

Debates are always frustrating and desirable at the same time. In here (internet) debates cannot be taken as factual and scientifically correct, because the view points expressed are not necessary from experts in the field. If it hurts too much, just leave the chair - so to speak. But debates are always bringing new and fresh ideas into the discussions. Take what you like and leave what is tasteless - this way you will end up on square one position - no loss and no gain.
Enjoy!

 

[Witch9]

So why on this one subject do they question the experts? I am not a biologist, I know the basics but for other things I have to put my trust in the people who are the experts.

Is that a rhetorical question? OK, here's another one: who questions evolution?

Mostly, it is people who have put their trust in an alleged god who reputedly created everything, just as it is, and seeded the garden with fossils and other objects to test the faith of their children.

Do you really think a fervent believer would abide any kind of science [def: The systematic study of humans and their environment based on the deductions and inferences which can be made, and the general laws which can be formulated, from reproducible observations and measurements of events and parameters within the universe. (Macquarie Dictionary)] that suggests an alternate reality? :no:
To accept evolution as fact would be to suggest that things can change without the god's input, and for many fervent believers that amounts to heresy!

And as for science, well we all know that the science which contradicts our religious beliefs all comes from "atheist" scientists, don't we? :biglaugh:

 

[lunakilo]

What really annoys me about the so called debate on Evolution, there is no real debate amongst biologists, is that so many people call it false without understanding it. I mean why does someone who done a quick internet search think they know more than someone has has spent 10, 20 or even 30 years of their life studying biology. I don't see these same people trying to contradict the engineers who designed their computer or the doctor who treats them in a hospital?

So why on this one subject do they question the experts? I am not a biologist, I know the basics but for other things I have to put my trust in the people who are the experts.

Evolution contradicts some peoples fundamental wiev of the world, so they feel the need to prove evolution wrong.
I think it is basically as simple as that.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I've never seen a pumpkin give birth to a blue whale, so I don't see how you can there's no debate about evolution. Seems like a pretty shaky theory to me.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have never yet seen a reasoned debate from an anti evolutionist.
There arguments are either based on faith or ignorance about science.

Threads on the subject soon become irritating, as there is almost no meeting of minds.

 

[ninerbuff]

It's a plain fact that scientists get all their money from liberals, and left wing atheist organisations and that any right-wing, Christian, scientist is censored and any debate stifled with talk of "consensus".

You are blind to this because you are a socialist, athiest, whiny useless liberal who just sits about moaning about the world all day (but still somehow controls the media and the scienctific research programs, probably at night).

Back up you opinion with facts. Grants are given to science by MANY organizations including private oil companies, pharmacy giants, etc.

 

[Panda]

Back up you opinion with facts. Grants are given to science by MANY organizations including private oil companies, pharmacy giants, etc.

You do get that Jaiket was being sarcastic?

 

[Thief]

So this is another believer-bashing thread?

And God the Creator had nothing to do with Man?

I believe in God.
I believe in evolution.

 

[Noaidi]

Evolution contradicts some peoples fundamental wiev of the world, so they feel the need to prove evolution wrong.
I think it is basically as simple as that.

Yes, that sums it up for me, too.

The debates here on evolution vs creationism are long-drawn out affairs, with no middle ground. I read them simply because so many interesting links to current evo research are given by Painted Wolf, Auto et al. The creationist camp merely tries to pick holes in ToE without actually presenting evidence for their case. It's almost as if they know that just saying "God did it cos the bible says so" is a weak argument...

 

[Noaidi]

So this is another believer-bashing thread?

No, it's a creationist-bashing thread (!). Plenty of believers accept evolution. The evolution professor at my university was also a part-time Anglican minister. He saw no conflict between his science and his faith.

 

[Yerda]

Back up you opinion with facts. Grants are given to science by MANY organizations including private oil companies, pharmacy giants, etc.

That was amusing. I think I see the attraction of being a...Poe, is it?

 

[Looncall]

That was amusing. I think I see the attraction of being a...Poe, is it?

Quite a good example. The sad thing is one sometimes sees just that sort of thing from people who are serious about it.

But then, that's what a Poe is!

 

[Sunstone]

So this is another believer-bashing thread?

Quit playing the martyr. It's sick and disgusting.

 

[Revoltingest]

What really annoys me about the so called debate on Evolution, there is no real debate amongst biologists, is that so many people call it false without understanding it. I mean why does someone who done a quick internet search think they know more than someone has has spent 10, 20 or even 30 years of their life studying biology. I don't see these same people trying to contradict the engineers who designed their computer or the doctor who treats them in a hospital?
So why on this one subject do they question the experts? I am not a biologist, I know the basics but for other things I have to put my trust in the people who are the experts.

The obvious answer is that for many, religion trumps science where there is conflict. If one believes that one's faith is true, & one observes
that the scientific method has shortcomings (eg, entrenched theories are sometimes overturned, scientists are imperfect), then it makes
perfect sense that they'd construct arguments (albeit lame from my perspective) against evolution. Moreover, "experts" are clearly capable
of holding beliefs which are demonstrably wrong (as when they take opposite sides in a debate where it's impossible for both to be correct),
so one may cull experts with comfortable views. So I wouldn't get to worked up about creationists believing as they do....it's to be expected.

 

[Thief]

Quit playing the martyr. It's sick and disgusting.

Not me!.....
But of course....
belief bashing is good for atheists?