What are "Religious People?"

[Quintessence]

Supernatural is everything that exist beyond nature.

Yes, I'm familiar with the common definition; I was being a touch facetious. The common definition is why the term doesn't make sense within the context of my religion. I reject the idea that there is something "beyond" nature, as that traces back to transcendent god-concepts that I do not accept. All is nature in this one's book (and in that of quite a few other contemporary Pagans too!).

 

[Covellite]

Yes, I'm familiar with the common definition; I was being a touch facetious. The common definition is why the term doesn't make sense within the context of my religion. I reject the idea that there is something "beyond" nature, as that traces back to transcendent god-concepts that I do not accept. All is nature in this one's book (and in that of quite a few other contemporary Pagans too!).

Supernatural - If something extends beyond a limits of human perception and cognition but it affects our life.

 

[Covellite]

Very simple:
for cats, humans are cats
for human, a rock is just a rock, not a living thing, for rocks humans does not exists

 

[Covellite]

Supernatural - If something extends beyond a limits of human perception and cognition but it affects our life.

Ignore me if it's too personal: is your religion druidism? Is your intention to become a real druid, sorcerer?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Quintessence, 'Religion' in its oldest sense is about the regular actions you perform. A Muslim goes to their mosque. A Jew washes and so forth. Perhaps you could call yourself religious if you do something regularly, such as waking up a 2am to have a secret thought, only eat vegetarian food and never say the word 'Moist'. Then you have a religion.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Supernatural - If something extends beyond a limits of human perception and cognition but it affects our life.

I'm needing some clarification here, and I do mean this as discussion not debate.
Before the discovery of ionizing radiation, humans had no perception or cognition that it existed, but it very definitely affected our lives. We still do not directly perceive it, although we have devices that can detect it, and we understand how it affects us. Prior to it's discovery, that would have met your definition of supernatural, no? Similar observations apply to other portions of the EM spectrum.

Currently, we know there is Dark Matter, and Dark Energy. While there are some hypotheses about what Dark Matter is, there is still no proof for any of those theories; We know even less about Dark Energy. They do apparently affect our existence (the former apparently making our material existence possible, the latter may eventually end our existence), but they "extend beyond ... limits of human perception and cognition, but it affects our life."

Thoughts?

 

[Covellite]

I'm needing some clarification here, and I do mean this as discussion not debate.
Before the discovery of ionizing radiation, humans had no perception or cognition that it existed, but it very definitely affected our lives. We still do not directly perceive it, although we have devices that can detect it, and we understand how it affects us. Prior to it's discovery, that would have met your definition of supernatural, no? Similar observations apply to other portions of the EM spectrum.

Currently, we know there is Dark Matter, and Dark Energy. While there are some hypotheses about what Dark Matter is, there is still no proof for any of those theories; We know even less about Dark Energy. They do apparently affect our existence (the former apparently making our material existence possible, the latter may eventually end our existence), but they "extend beyond ... limits of human perception and cognition, but it affects our life."

Thoughts?

That was good. Another thing, knowing and developing perception are not the same thing.

 

[Quintessence]

Quint you and I both find many of the same things sacred but I have never been able to determine if we mean the same thing by this. Let's use the sun as example. What is the sun to you?

This is a bit off-topic for the thread, so if you want to draw this conversation out, feel free to PM me. But in a few words, Sun is quite literally central axis around which our planet revolves - it's seasons, it's biodiversity, and all human civilizations. That makes it worthy of reverence to me.

Ignore me if it's too personal: is your religion druidism? Is your intention to become a real druid, sorcerer?

I don't know what a "real" Druid is to you, but my flavor of contemporary Paganism has essentially been Druidry for quite some time, and I'm a member of OBOD. Again, neither here nor there with respect to the thread topic, but I figured I'd give you an answer at least.

 

[Covellite]

This is a bit off-topic for the thread, so if you want to draw this conversation out, feel free to PM me. But in a few words, Sun is quite literally central axis around which our planet revolves - it's seasons, it's biodiversity, and all human civilizations. That makes it worthy of reverence to me.



I don't know what a "real" Druid is to you, but my flavor of contemporary Paganism has essentially been Druidry for quite some time, and I'm a member of OBOD. Again, neither here nor there with respect to the thread topic, but I figured I'd give you an answer at least.

Thanks IMO druid shoul be born as druid, by druid mother and druid father, or to be initiated by "supernatural" being. Other options are not so effective.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

That was good. Another thing, knowing and developing perception are not the same thing.

okay, just realized I was going to derail the thread. some other time, then!

 

[tjgillies]

In my opinion, it's a roundabout bias term of saying "those people" who do X,Y,Z that the person who says it disagrees with.

Technically, it's a generalization commonly associated with religion-dogmatic rather than religion-spiritual lifestyle. So "religious people" are people who live dogmatic religions to which whoever says it have ill feelings over.

It's a derogatory phrase in most context I have seen. Whether it's generalizing all religious people, I dont think so. It is too broad and religion has so many definitions that I rarely see it used in a context other than labels.

Yeah, from what I've seen it's just a way to create a divisive "us vs them" mentality

 

[Covellite]

okay, just realized I was going to derail the thread. some other time, then!

Intelectuals

 

[LuisDantas]

Maybe we can try to do something to fix this confused situation?

For instance, attempt to remember to qualify statements, speaking of "religiously conservative" people as opposed to just plain "religious"?

 

[Iti oj]

This is a bit off-topic for the thread, so if you want to draw this conversation out, feel free to PM me. But in a few words, Sun is quite literally central axis around which our planet revolves - it's seasons, it's biodiversity, and all human civilizations. That makes it worthy of reverence to me.

i didnt think it was. I consider the sun worthy of reverence for me for the same reason and im sure we can both expand upon its importance to us, like it being the source of energy and life. I'm not sure i consider that religious . That's why i ask. I have also often stated the difference between beliefs on practices.

then again maybe im more religious then i like to admit

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Intelectuals

I like a good discussion; tend to head off on tangents, though. That's why I prefer discussions over beer and pizza!

 

[tjgillies]

Maybe we can try to do something to fix this confused situation?

For instance, attempt to remember to qualify statements, speaking of "religiously conservative" people as opposed to just plain "religious"?

I think this is another term that exists purely to create divisive "us vs them" thinking. I'm liberal kill all the conservatives. I'm conservative kill all the liberals.

 

[outhouse]

I don't know. I don't know what you believe to be mythology compared to not-mythology.

You have been here long enough and know what it means.

And you know me well enough to know what I mean.


Its why you tap dance around the issue.

We all know well enough your not labeled as a stereotypical religious person, but you do if I'm not mistaken subscribe to modern mythology.

All people have standards of "proof" that they consider to be "reasonable measures,"

No they don't, that's quite the liberal answer.

 

[Iti oj]

You have been here long enough and know what it means.

And you know me well enough to know what I mean.


Its why you tap dance around the issue.

We all know well enough your not labeled as a stereotypical religious person, but you do if I'm not mistaken subscribe to modern mythology.




No they don't, that's quite the liberal answer.

im a liberal and i resent that

 

[columbus]

To you, then, I am not a "religious person" because my religion does not meet these criteria?

Awk-ward!

I don't see it as awkward. But no, I don't see you as religious. Maybe just a tinge. I don't see theist/atheist as a very useful division, in circumstances where more nuance is feasible, like RF.
I see more of a broad spectrum with various points. People usually cover multiple points.
Briefly, I see it like this:
Hard atheist
Soft atheist
Deist
Pantheist
Soft theist
Hard theist

I don't include some people on this spectrum, for various reasons. Igtheist is someone who, due to being very young or mentally disabled or isolated, cannot form such a worldview. Agnostic is someone who has no beliefs about god, but does believe humans are incapable of knowing anything important on the subject. I suppose that they could be inserted on one side or the other of deist.

To me, the main difference between theism and everything else is human authority. If someone bases their god image and worldview on what they have been told by someone else they are religious. Prophet, scriptures, traditions are the main sources. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I get the impression that your beliefs are almost entirely a function of your own experience and observation and interaction with that. That is very different from someone who gets their beliefs from what they are taught by scholars and scriptures and such.
So no, I don't think you are religious. Not that it matters to me if you think you are. YMMV This is just the way I see things.
Tom

 

[outhouse]

im a liberal and i resent that

Not the same thing


lib·er·al
[ˈlib(ə)rəl]
ADJECTIVE

1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values:

Sometimes a word means what is says