What are the best and worst things about heaven?

[Sgt. Pepper]

You gave up that ministry, didn't you? And so now you talk with dead people perhaps?

More snarky remarks, YoursTrue?

Perhaps you need to be reminded of how I handled your previous snide remarks about me in other threads.

By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

What's to debate about if a person says he doesn't care what the Bible says or is an agnostic or atheist but then wants to quote from the Bible A person does not have to CARE what the Bible says in order to debate about what the Bible says. They might just be debating about what the Bible says...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[YoursTrue]

More snarky remarks, YoursTrue?

Perhaps you need to be reminded of how I handled your previous snide remarks about me in other threads.

By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

What's to debate about if a person says he doesn't care what the Bible says or is an agnostic or atheist but then wants to quote from the Bible A person does not have to CARE what the Bible says in order to debate about what the Bible says. They might just be debating about what the Bible says...

www.religiousforums.com

I guess I don't understand...either you do or you don't. But henceforth you may say what you want, I'll leave it up to God, not dead people, as for the final decision...take care and be well.

 

[Jimmy]

God and war

 

[YoursTrue]

@Sgt. Pepper Before I go, I think I am going to put you on ignore...just to say...

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Sgt. Pepper Before I go, I think I am going to put you on ignore...just to say...

And?

Why was it important to you to say this in public?

If I put someone on ignore, I just do it. I don't make a public announcement about it.

 

[Hooded_Crow]

If I ever get to those gates, I'm going to ask St P three questions:
Is Jimi there?
Is Kurt there?
Is Janis there?

No? OK. I'm off downstairs...

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I've always found JWs polite and respectful, but religiously obstinate.

The JW's I've known in my life have been wonderful people, but yes, they are the sort to say, "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." Their churches do not allow anyone to question, using fear of hell to keep people in line. I have never personally attended a Kingdom Hall service, but a relative told me that the sermons could benefit from deeper intellectual engagement.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If I ever get to those gates, I'm going to ask St P three questions:
Is Jimi there?
Is Kurt there?
Is Janis there?

No? OK. I'm off downstairs...

There are some people I'd like to meet again on the other side, but quite a few I hope I never see.

 

[Hooded_Crow]

There are some people I'd like to meet again on the other side, but quite a few I hope I never see.

Surely you'd want to sit at the feet of Jimi Hendrix?

 

[YoursTrue]

The best thing about heaven is, there's no postmortal existence for the self, so we don't have the postmortal problem of tedium into eter

When I feel good (no pain) and am up and alert and enjoy what I'm doing, I am happy. I know we need sleep but when I am doing what I like to do, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I love the poem by Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Night..." Perhaps you've heard of it. As a young person I loved that poem but did not know what the Bible really teaches. Now I do and am still not happy about the thought of death. I want to keep on living...I know we all face death. I believe what the Bible says when it talks about death being done away with as the "last enemy." I'm happy to know that.

 

[blü 2]

When I feel good (no pain) and am up and alert and enjoy what I'm doing, I am happy. I know we need sleep but when I am doing what I like to do, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I love the poem by Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Night..." Perhaps you've heard of it. As a young person I loved that poem but did not know what the Bible really teaches. Now I do and am still not happy about the thought of death. I want to keep on living...I know we all face death. I believe what the Bible says when it talks about death being done away with as the "last enemy." I'm happy to know that.

Good luck with that ...

 

[YoursTrue]

Good luck with that!

I don't need luck. But I am looking forward to it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Surely you'd want to sit at the feet of Jimi Hendrix?

No, I'm not a fan of his, but I'd like to hang out John and George, though.

I'll include Paul and Ringo just in case I live a long life and pass away when I'm much older.

 

[Trailblazer]

The best thing about heaven is that it doesn't exist.

How do you know that?

 

[Trailblazer]

The best thing about heaven is, there's no postmortal existence for the self, so we don't have the postmortal problem of tedium into eternity.

How do you know that there's no postmortal existence for the self?
Why do you think that if there was there would be tedium into eternity?

 

[blü 2]

How do you know that there's no postmortal existence for the self?

First, heaven is apparently not found in this universe but in the supernatural realm, and the only way in which the supernatural realm is known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains. (I understand the Mormons believe that you get to run a real solar system somewhere else in the universe if you've lived a good life before you die. If I have that correctly ─ and apologies to our Mormon friends if I have it wrong ─ then the Mormons need to ante up with some real examples.)

Second, as the excellent Edward FitzGerald put it,

Strange, is it not? that of the myriads who
Before us pass’d the door of Darkness through,

Not one returns to tell us of the Road,​

Which to discover we must travel too.​

Third, humans are seriously smarter than the next smartest real critters ─ chimps, dolphins, and so on ─ but have evolved from animals and remain animals. Do chimps and dolphins, do snakes and ants, do trees and slime molds and lichens, do the uncountable microorganisms with whom we share the earth, go to heaven too?

Why do you think that if there was there would be tedium into eternity?

─ Let us now sing hymn number 127, 957,623,417,000,791,855.
─ Aw, not that weary old thing! We sang that only 32 millennia ago!

And, as Woody Allen is said to have said, 'Eternity is very long, especially towards the end.'

 

[YoursTrue]

First, heaven is apparently not found in this universe but in the supernatural realm, and the only way in which the supernatural realm is known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains. (I understand the Mormons believe that you get to run a real solar system somewhere else in the universe if you've lived a good life before you die. If I have that correctly ─ and apologies to our Mormon friends if I have it wrong ─ then the Mormons need to ante up with some real examples.)

Second, as the excellent Edward FitzGerald put it,

Strange, is it not? that of the myriads who​

Before us pass’d the door of Darkness through,​

Not one returns to tell us of the Road,​

The

Which to discover we must travel too.​

Third, humans are seriously smarter than the next smartest real critters ─ chimps, dolphins, and so on ─ but have evolved from animals and remain animals. Do chimps and dolphins, do snakes and ants, do trees and slime molds and lichens, do the uncountable microorganisms with whom we share the earth, go to heaven too?

─ Let us now sing hymn number 127, 957,623,417,000,791,855.
─ Aw, not that weary old thing! We sang that only 32 millennia ago!

And, as Woody Allen is said to have said, 'Eternity is very long, especially towards the end.'

There are spiritual heavens and physical heavens. According to the Bible. It also speaks of "new" heavens and a "new" earth --

 

[Trailblazer]

First, heaven is apparently not found in this universe but in the supernatural realm, and the only way in which the supernatural realm is known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains.

The mere fact that heaven is imagined to exist in another realm doesn't mean it does not exist, because people can imagine things that later turn out to exist.

That said, I do not believe that heaven is a place where we go after we die, like a geographical location. I believe that there is another realm of existence beyond this earthly realm of existence and Baha'is call it the spiritual world. I know nothing about that realm since God did not intend for us to know about it, which is why it is not described in scriptures.

“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.....
As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 345-346

Third, humans are seriously smarter than the next smartest real critters ─ chimps, dolphins, and so on ─ but have evolved from animals and remain animals. Do chimps and dolphins, do snakes and ants, do trees and slime molds and lichens, do the uncountable microorganisms with whom we share the earth, go to heaven too?

I believe that all animals have a spirit so they all go to the spiritual world. Whether they will be with humans is anyone's best guess.
If there are no cats there I am going to be really mad and sad, not that it'll do me any good.

─ Let us now sing hymn number 127, 957,623,417,000,791,855.
─ Aw, not that weary old thing! We sang that only 32 millennia ago!

Whoever said we will be singing hymns in heaven? I know of no such verses in the Bible. If that is all we had to do it would be drop dead boring.

That said, I believe we will be doing work in heaven, although I don't know what kind of work it will be.

“Those who have passed on through death, have a sphere of their own. It is not removed from ours; their work, the work of the Kingdom, is ours; but it is sanctified from what we call ‘time and place.’ Time with us is measured by the sun. When there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist for man. Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, Pages 95-97

There is a funny Baha'i joke about heaven if you want to hear it.

And, as Woody Allen is said to have said, 'Eternity is very long, especially towards the end.'

That is funny, but since there is no end to eternity it is not very funny. I ride the line between atheists and believers since I hope it will be better than this world but I am certainly not convinced of that, and given there is no return ticket that is very disconcerting to say the least.

That said, I believe that God is loving and just so we will get what we deserve, and I do not mean that in a bad way. I mean people who have lived good lives will get their reward, regardless of what they believed.

 

[blü 2]

There are spiritual heavens and physical heavens. According to the Bible. It also speaks of "new" heavens and a "new" earth --

The bible (Mark, Matthew, Luke) also says that the Kingdom would be established in the lifetime of some of Jesus' hearers ... but speaking for myself, I think running 2,000 years or so late is way over the top, the same thing as not happening.

 

[blü 2]

There is a funny Baha'i joke about heaven if you want to hear it.

Bring it on!