What are the chances?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I meant to write 500,000,000 not 5,000,000. My BS in math I guess was too many years ago. The numbers you posted made me wonder what is the actual count of atheists and believers in God(s) worldwide. The number of believers does not prove God, but I find the numbers to be interesting. An awful lot of people are convinced God(s) is working in their lives.

So now engage your imagination, and your powers of reason: can you think of any reasons that such attititudes -- about something that is essentially unknowable -- seem to be so widespread?

I can, but I'd rather hear what you can dream up, first.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Has it occurred to anyone that,

If Christianity is right, 5,000,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?
If Islam is right, 5,500,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?
If Hinduism is right, 6,000,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?
If there is no god, 6,000,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?

Now, out of honesty, I have to admit that if atheism is right, then it's even worse, because 6,500,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong.

What a conundrum!

I wonder why all those people, with all their sincere beliefs, can be so confident that they're right? What are the chances?

If their religions are mutually exclusive, they can't all be right, BUT they can all be wrong.

 

[Scott C.]

So now engage your imagination, and your powers of reason: can you think of any reasons that such attititudes -- about something that is essentially unknowable -- seem to be so widespread?

I can, but I'd rather hear what you can dream up, first.

In the case of the belief in God, I believe it's widespread because God is real. He lets us know he's there.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In the case of the belief in God, I believe it's widespread because God is real. He lets us know he's there.

In what way does God "let you know he's there?"

By which I mean, by the way, how does GOD do this, rather than how does some charlatan saying "I speak for God and therefore you must believe me -- and send money!"

 

[Subduction Zone]

As long as you don't believe you can have a world view based only on evidence, we agree.

In the case of the belief in God, I believe it's widespread because God is real. He lets us know he's there.

It does not appear that way to me. He either plays hide and seek or dress up. The endless variations of 'God' that we see indicates that he does not exist and is merely human wishful thinking.

 

[Skywalker]

It does not appear that way to me. He either plays hide and seek or dress up. The endless variations of 'God' that we see indicates that he does not exist and is merely human wishful thinking.

I believe that God is real, because look around in creation. The heavens declare the glory of God.

 

[sayak83]

Has it occurred to anyone that,

If Christianity is right, 5,000,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?
If Islam is right, 5,500,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?
If Hinduism is right, 6,000,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?
If there is no god, 6,000,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong?

Now, out of honesty, I have to admit that if atheism is right, then it's even worse, because 6,500,000,000 humans on this planet are wrong.

What a conundrum!

I wonder why all those people, with all their sincere beliefs, can be so confident that they're right? What are the chances?

Everybody is wrong, including me. That is most probable.

 

[Skywalker]

Everybody is wrong, including me. That is most probable.

Isn't that like someone saying they don't exist?

 

[sayak83]

Isn't that like someone saying they don't exist?

No. It's also likely that atheists are just as wrong as everyone else. Our questions today about the fundamental nature of reality are likely ill-posed. Something like "where does the sun go after it dips into the ocean at night".

 

[Skywalker]

No. It's also likely that atheists are just as wrong as everyone else. Our questions today about the fundamental nature of reality are likely ill-posed. Something like "where does the sun go after it dips into the ocean at night".

I believe that God is real because creation reveals there is a creator. Why do you think it's likely theism is true?

 

[sayak83]

I believe that God is real because creation reveals there is a creator. Why do you think it's likely theism is true?

Four apparently entirely different type of entities are interconnected to give rise to the observable reality.
1) Conscious Awareness which is where experiences happen.
2) Information structures that can be variously described as "knowledge", " data" etc. and is present in all things.
3) Mathematical and Logical Structures and relationships that are also embedded in all things.
4) Physical and material properties and relations that is the subject physics and science.
All 4 are needed to describe anything in the world. All 4 seem to be very different "stuff" if investigated seperately and yet cannot be dientangled from any description of what we experience as the world. Thus they must be equally "true" projections of an integrated deeper reality stratum that has all 4 aspects to it but goes beyond all of them in some ways.
That is my conclusion.

 

[Skywalker]

Four apparently entirely different type of entities are interconnected to give rise to the observable reality.
1) Conscious Awareness which is where experiences happen.
2) Information structures that can be variously described as "knowledge", " data" etc. and is present in all things.
3) Mathematical and Logical Structures and relationships that are also embedded in all things.
4) Physical and material properties and relations that is the subject physics and science.
All 4 are needed to describe anything in the world. All 4 seem to be very different "stuff" if investigated seperately and yet cannot be dientangled from any description of what we experience as the world. Thus they must be equally "true" projections of an integrated deeper reality stratum that has all 4 aspects to it but goes beyond all of them in some ways.
That is my conclusion.

Consciousness could exist with God involved. There's no what's it like to be a computer. Artificial intelligence doesn't really exist.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It does not appear that way to me. He either plays hide and seek or dress up. The endless variations of 'God' that we see indicates that he does not exist and is merely human wishful thinking.

Well, human cognition doesn't decide, what the world independent of the mind is, so it is apparently unknown for all positive versions of what the world independent of the mind is. Not just the religions versions, but all including naturalism and so on.
So for what the world independent of the mind is, I am an agnostic.

So if you believe you know what the world independent of the mind is, you have a belief without evidence.
Further there are these, where evidence doesn't work:
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_12

 

[Scott C.]

In what way does God "let you know he's there?"

By which I mean, by the way, how does GOD do this, rather than how does some charlatan saying "I speak for God and therefore you must believe me -- and send money!"

I didn't really wander into this thread wanting a serious debate on why I believe in God. But yes there are religious charlatans in the world. I happen to believe that the leaders in my church, especially those at the top are not charlatans. They believe what they teach. I think I can honestly say I know that as a fact. I believe God has manifested himself to me, not through my leaders, but one on one directly. I don't really want to get into my personal experiences and how I feel God in my life as I don't think it would be taken seriously and it is real and serious to me.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, human cognition doesn't decide, what the world independent of the mind is, so it is apparently unknown for all positive versions of what the world independent of the mind is. Not just the religions versions, but all including naturalism and so on.
So for what the world independent of the mind is, I am an agnostic.

So if you believe you know what the world independent of the mind is, you have a belief without evidence.
Further there are these, where evidence doesn't work:
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_12

Why do you doubt naturalism?

 

[sun rise]

So all the worlds religions are not literally right? Then this is the issue. How does one sort the wheat from the chaff? What is to be taken as true? How are all the incongruities and conflicts between religions supposed to be reconciled? Millions have died throughout history over religious conflict. These conflicts rage today.

What people believe affects all of us and it is appropriate to evaluate and question these beliefs. We cannot simply say, "They are all right".

The elephant metaphor is about all having pieces which are correct but not the entire picture which is beyond their grasp (being blind)

 

[Skywalker]

The elephant metaphor is about all having pieces which are correct but not the entire picture which is beyond their grasp (being blind)

What blindness age you referring to?

 

[sun rise]

What blindness age you referring to?

The metaphor is about how limited human beings cannot see beyond their own limitations. You might think of it as a story which is a parable.

 

[Skywalker]

The metaphor is about how limited human beings cannot see beyond their own limitations. You might think of it as a story which is a parable.

How do our limitations affect how we see God?

 

[sun rise]

How do our limitations affect how we see God?

How can the limited see the unlimited?