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What are the criterions for a god/gods?

stvdv

Veteran Member
Ohhhh....you want me to shut up do you !!!!!
:mad:....................;)..........................:cool:

No, not shut up. I gave you a creative.

But more and more I come to the conclusion it's impossible for me to say anything useful about "Truth" in words
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Like Giuliani says: "there is no truth in truth..."
Silence is the whisper of truth unheard and unsaid.
~
I was only kidding, you know !
 

Thinking Homer

Understanding and challenging different worldviews
Magic? Immortality or a lifespan that spreads across eons?? Supreme intelligence? master over other life forms, natural element(s)? I am probably missing some feel free to fill in the blanks I missed.

Can technology grant some of these characteristics? Or would technology exclude one a status of being a god or god like?

Say an alien race decided to openly visit this world, we were able to establish communication with them and found them to have an avg lifespan of 10-35,000 of our years, were vastly more intelligent, had technology that granted them the ability to forge worlds, and manipulate nature at a whim, would they not be gods?

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

I've been having a lot of debates lately of whether Jesus was God or not. I simply gave them 2 criteria:
1) An entity that has authority over all of creation
2) An entity that lies outside of space and time

There is also the 3 O's that Christians like to use: Omnipotence (all-powerful), omnipresence (present everywhere), and omniscience (all-knowing)
 

Frog

Cult of Kek.
Magic? Immortality or a lifespan that spreads across eons?? Supreme intelligence? master over other life forms, natural element(s)? I am probably missing some feel free to fill in the blanks I missed.

Can technology grant some of these characteristics? Or would technology exclude one a status of being a god or god like?

Say an alien race decided to openly visit this world, we were able to establish communication with them and found them to have an avg lifespan of 10-35,000 of our years, were vastly more intelligent, had technology that granted them the ability to forge worlds, and manipulate nature at a whim, would they not be gods?

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"
You suppose God is a being of human or cyborg characteristics? Ahhhh lol .
I see god as a primordial absolute.
Think 1 & 0
 

ameyAtmA

~ ~
Premium Member
Hello
First let us list qualities of a Godly person / being, then move to God, the Supreme

Daivi sampadA -- the treasure-gift of godliness from Hindu scripture Bhagavad GeetA 16.1,2,3 as well as 13.7

1. abhayam: fearlessness - complete absence of fear
2. sattva: goodness and purity - complete purity, free of blemish ( refers to character)
3. dnyAna-yoga-vyavasthiti: Full of Wisdom, knowledge, with continuous focus on and abidance in SuperConsciousness, the God-Principle, - with a view to see the Divinity and nature of Divine at all times
4. dAna: Selfless charity made gladly with a pure heart - without selfish interests or expectations, without hesitance or reluctance (charity can be about anything concrete or abstract - such as fearlessness, inspiration, not just money. In short , doing good for others)
5. dama: Control of the mind and senses, self-control
6. nIti : righteous with complete understanding of right and wrong
7. kshmA : forgiving
8. yadnya: Has a selfless sacrificing nature, Follows principles of dharma (selfless duty, calling) and works prescribed
9. sva-adhyAy: regular study of scriptures OR regular contemplation on Self (sift out non-Self)
10. tapa: Austerity, perseverence, persistence on spiritual matters, goals
11. Arjavam: humble, cordial, gentle, lacks (absence of) arrogance and pride, respectful
12. non-violence (no harm to any being at any level - physical, mental, verbal, psychological)
13. satyam: Truthful
14. akrodha: complete absence of involuntary anger
15. tyAg: sacrificing nature - puts others' interests before theirs
16. shAnti: peace, tranquility
17. dayA : compassion
18. aloluptvam : lack of covetousness
19. gentleness, politeness (never hurtful)
20. hree: Modesty, Has shame for improper , incorrect deeds - cares about society
21. achApalam: Absence of purposeless activity, fickle-minded-ness
22. tej: radiates good vibes, effulgence
23. dhruti: enthusiasm and courage
24. shaucham: Purity and cleanliness at all levels - physical, mental, psychological, in attitude
25. adroha: Absence of enmity towards anyone
26. apaishunam: absence of slander
...
 
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sealchan

Well-Known Member
The criteria for God would be an eternal omnipotent, omnipresent 'Source' of everything that some people call Gods.

Aliens from another word would not be Gods, because the first question is what Created the aliens, more aliens?

The more I think about this familiar definition of God, the more I see it as only ever denoting an unreachable abstraction. That is such a belief may shield the believer in such a God from ever experiencing God as an objective reality.

This may be a desirable way to understand god.

However, I think that given this restriction it may be that there exist beings with sufficiently god like capabilities that to say they are god-like would be apt.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
My extension of the old Buddhism saying...if you meet God on the road...kill him. Paul did! That is if you appreciate Nikos Kazantzakis' story.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The more I think about this familiar definition of God, the more I see it as only ever denoting an unreachable abstraction. That is such a belief may shield the believer in such a God from ever experiencing God as an objective reality.

This may be a desirable way to understand god.

As far as what may be called God, omnipotent and omnipresent, and omniscience, this is likely the only definition that does not carry a boat load of anthropomorphic interpretations and conceptions burdened by cultural images regardless of whether the reality of God exists or not.

However, I think that given this restriction it may be that there exist beings with sufficiently god like capabilities that to say they are god-like would be apt.

Turtles, or ah . . . aliens all the way down?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
My extension of the old Buddhism saying...if you meet God on the road...kill him. Paul did! That is if you appreciate Nikos Kazantzakis' story.

I interpret this somewhat differently. Search for the absolute truth, perfect avatar, teacher or mentor, and believing you can find it, as well as the belief on can attain the illusive detachment in perfection.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

I would keep only Bible God as my God, because he is the greatest, wisest and knows the best.

But generally, god is a title, like a king, but higher, the most high authority for the person. What person keeps as his god, can be seen on what he ultimately serves with his actions. Many people seem to have fear as their god, fear is what guides modern politics and many actions of people. Only few seem to be guided by love and serve love.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8
 

lukethethird

unknown member
The criterion of embarrassment comes to mind, if God allowed something to happen that embarrassed the early church then God exists in real space and time, he's historical.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
Magic? Immortality or a lifespan that spreads across eons?? Supreme intelligence? master over other life forms, natural element(s)? I am probably missing some feel free to fill in the blanks I missed.

Can technology grant some of these characteristics? Or would technology exclude one a status of being a god or god like?

Say an alien race decided to openly visit this world, we were able to establish communication with them and found them to have an avg lifespan of 10-35,000 of our years, were vastly more intelligent, had technology that granted them the ability to forge worlds, and manipulate nature at a whim, would they not be gods?

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

None.
God is not a status.
God is not a being.

If i asked you to describe what is a force, how would you describe it?
No matter how you describe it, the affect remains the same.
We don't know what god is. we do know what his affect on our reality is.
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
I would keep only Bible God as my God, because he is the greatest, wisest and knows the best.

But generally, god is a title, like a king, but higher, the most high authority for the person. What person keeps as his god, can be seen on what he ultimately serves with his actions. Many people seem to have fear as their god, fear is what guides modern politics and many actions of people. Only few seem to be guided by love and serve love.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8
Great thanks for not answering the question.


None.
God is not a status.
God is not a being.

If i asked you to describe what is a force, how would you describe it?
No matter how you describe it, the affect remains the same.
We don't know what god is. we do know what his affect on our reality is.

Then why answer? I don't think god is real either but plenty of folks throw the word around without saying what the word means to them.
 
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Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Magic? Immortality or a lifespan that spreads across eons?? Supreme intelligence? master over other life forms, natural element(s)? I am probably missing some feel free to fill in the blanks I missed.

Can technology grant some of these characteristics? Or would technology exclude one a status of being a god or god like?

Say an alien race decided to openly visit this world, we were able to establish communication with them and found them to have an avg lifespan of 10-35,000 of our years, were vastly more intelligent, had technology that granted them the ability to forge worlds, and manipulate nature at a whim, would they not be gods?

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

Typically the characteristics are 1) magical (able to violate the laws of physics), 2) anthropomorphic (resembling a human or having human characteristics), and 3) immortal (capable of living forever).
 

Misunderstood

Active Member
Criterions is an uncommon word in the dictionary and is a plural of criteria.

The word criteria is often treated as singular or even uncountable, but these uses are usually still considered incorrect; the standard singular form is criterion. The standard and most common plural form is criteria; less common is criterions.

I even looked it up before using it.

EDIT: Side note, this ^^^^ nonsense is in direct correlation to the previous thread about how we converse with each other on here. So easily do threads get completely derailed over something as insignificant as the plural or singular form of criteria.

Like if someone said formulas, and I argued against formulas demanding it should have been formulae.
I do agree that threads go completely off target because of some argument over how to say something or other point. I do feel asking for some clarification is OK. as long as it resolves quickly instead of arguing about the clarification. As you see there are many definition of God, and some are provable as mentioned in the other thread.

But my view of God is The First God, The Beginning and End, The One Who Created Everything and Everyone, No other Gods before Him.
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
I do agree that threads go completely off target because of some argument over how to say something or other point. I do feel asking for some clarification is OK. as long as it resolves quickly instead of arguing about the clarification. As you see there are many definition of God, and some are provable as mentioned in the other thread.

But my view of God is The First God, The Beginning and End, The One Who Created Everything and Everyone, No other Gods before Him.

link?
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Some excerpts from the series of lectures bundled in the publication 'Namami Krsnasundaram' (pages 201-208) by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti (alias P.R. Sarkar) on the subject of the qualities of a Bhagavána in relation to Lord Krishna:

"Let us analyse the scriptural interpretation of the term bhagavána. The word bhaga plus the Sanskrit suffix matup becomes bhagavata, and bhagavána when declined in the first case, singular number. From the spiritual point of view, the word bhaga has two meanings - the first "spiritual effulgence" and the second, a combination of six qualities.
The bha of bhagavána signifies bheti bhásayate lokán - "one who illumines all the lokas by one's own aura" - by the excellence of infinite vitality, wisdom and greatness.
Bha represents all these superhuman qualities. Bha is an acoustic root having immense attribution. Human beings owe their radiance to Him alone. The earth receives its light from the sun, the sun receives its light from the stars, and the stars receive their light from Parama Purusha alone. Tasya bhásá sarvamidam vibháti - "Everyone is radiant with His light." Where does human intellect originate from? It emanates from Him. People learn by reading books or by hearing, reading and understanding discourses. These faculties of hearing, reading and understanding are not human creations.
They are the gentle rise and fall of the waves flowing in the vast body of Parama Purusha [Mc: i.e. the Supreme Consciousness]. Jiivas have nothing of their own. Everything they receive is from Him alone. They get food from Him and they get air from Him. Everything is a gift from Him. Thus bha is an adequate description of His immense attribution.
Next is ga. Ityágacchatyajasram gacchati yasmin imá prajá ágacchati yasmát - "the Entity to whom all microcosms return". Gacchati means "goes", yasmin means "to whom" and ágacchati yasmát means "from Whom all jiivas originate". Countless are the creations which issue forth from Him and return back to Him. So bha and ga together make the word bhaga.
Bhaga has another interpretation. It means a combination of six superhuman qualities. They are:

Aeshvaryainca samagrainca viiryainca yashasah shriyah;
Jinána vaerágyayoshca tu sannám bhaga iti smrtam.


[Bhága is a collection of six attributes: aeshvarya, viirya,
yasha, shrii, jinána and vaerárgya
.]

Aeshvarya: While discussing the topic of Párthasárathi in the light of bhaktitattva the other day, I said that all eight aeshvaryas were found combined in Párthasárathi - ánimá, mahima, laghimá, prápti, iis[h]itva, prakámya and antarayámitva. One possessing all eight occult powers is know as Iishvara. The Latin equivalent of aeshvarya is "occult power". "Occult" means "that which comes as a result of cult".
Viirya: Virrya means "valour". One whose presence strikes fear into the hearts of his or her enemies, who is a competent administrator, who can succesfully command others to action and who can assume an awesome countenance at will [has viirya].
Yasha: Yasha means "fame". When people loudly and wildly acclaim a person for his or her sterling qualities, this acclaim is known as yasha. And how do we explain yashasah, meaning "all kinds of name and fame"? It is because when Parama Purusha brings about social welfare by speaking truthfully and unambigiously and performing many good deeds, good people, common people, derive the benefit and speak highly of His deeds. They are full of praise for Him. They love Him and they revere Him.

Tomari geche pálcha snehe Tumi-i dhanya dhanya he,
Ámári prán Tomári dán, Tumi-i dhanya dhanya he.


[You are taking affectionate care of people in Your sweet
home; You are really blessed; victory unto You. My very life
is Your gift, You are really blessed, victory unto You.]

Then there is another category of people whose vested interests are adversely affected by His words and deeds. When their hard-wrought empire falls to pieces at His touch, they become filled with rage at Him. They go at any length to slander and malign him. One section of the people - those who have suffered under the thumb of these vested interests - sing His praises, while adversaries spit venom at Him.
Much time has passed since Krishna left the earth, but still today thousands of people praise Him, and at the same time many people continue to slander Him. I will not call them wicked; let the people pronounce judgement. Thus yashasah implies both yasha [fame] and apayasha [infamy]. Positive and negative go hand in hand. Interestingly, a clear polarization emerges in the minds of the people. Two unmistakable lines are drawn; two opposing camps are formed - the Kaoravas and the Pandavas. This is yasha.
Shrii: Sha is the accoustic root of rajoguná [the mutative principle] and the ra of energy. When people plunge headlong into the field of action with all the rajas [mutative force] at their disposal, and backed by this stored-up energy take to karma yoga, that is, when they take up the challenge with all the inherent force and vigour of their personality, we say that sha and ra are well-blended in them. So sha + ra = shra. The word is in the feminine gender, so it becomes shrii when suffixed by unnis. Shrii means the power of attraction - a unique combination of mutative lustre and inner vitality. All humans beings covet this rare quality, shrii, so even those who are devoid of shrii like to prefix their names with shrii. This is a very old custom in India. One may not have shrii, but one wants it, so that person adds it to his name.
Jinánam: Here jinánam means spiritual knowledge. Suppose there are four sub-divisions in the Hooghly District [in West Bengal, India]. This is knowledge. It is not altogether useless. Such knowledge is called aparájinána [worldy or ordinary knowledge]. It may be of some help in the physical sphere, but in the higher psychic planes it becomes useless. This is aparájinána. It comes fom its terrestrial source and is thrown back once again. It is like banana skins which someone picks up from the road and throws in the dustbin. But jinána as a bhaga does not imply aparájinána at all, for aparájinána cannot elevate human beings to higher spheres. Here jinána means parájinána [self-knowledge], because parájinána, when associated with social service, can associate with aparájinána, but aparájinána cannot under any circumstances associate with parájinána if it wants to maintain its separate identity. Aparájinána as mere aparájinána remains confined to the mundane sphere, whereas parájinána elevates human beings to the spiritual sphere and at the same time serves as an invaluable aid to aparájinána. Here jinána means átmajinána, that is, spiritual jinána, which is actually parájinána. One who has acquied parájinána will automatically develop aparájinána. He or she need not take the trouble to read voluminous books.

Átmajinánam vidurjinánam jinánányanyáni yáni tu.
Táni jinánávabhásáni sárasya naeva bodhanát.


"Self-knowlegde is true knowledge, while other branches of knowledge are mere reflections of knowledge. They are umbra and the penumbra of knowlegde." Táni jinánávabhásán - "This is not knowledge but the reflection of knowledge." - sárasya naeva bodhanát - "One will never arrive at the truth through it."

Átmajinánamidam Devii param mokshaekasádhanam;
Sukrtaermánavo bhútvá jinániicenmokshamápnuyát.


[Self-knowledge, Párvatii, is the greatest means to attain sal-
vation. People are born as human beings due to their past good
sámskáras, but to attain non-qualified liberation they will have
to attain self-knowledge.]

Párvatii asked Shiva, "When do people attain salvation?"
Shiva replied, "People attain salvation the moment they acquire self-knowledge. When people succeed in attaining self-knowledge after intense sádhaná intense tapasyá [penance], for many lives, through tremendous conflict and clash, they attain moksha [salvation].
 
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Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Vaerágya: The word vaerágya [renunciation] is derived fom the prefix vi, the root verb rainj and the suffix ghain. Last Phálgunii Púrnimá [full moon of February-March] I told you that every physical object, every thought-wave, has its own colour, and the underlying significance of Dola Yátrá, or Dola Liilá [Spring Festival], lies in surrendering that mental colour to Parama Purusha. So here the verb rainj implies freeing the mind from all colours. All longings and aspirations, thoughts of the present and dreams of the future, and all sorts of colourful thoughts flow from the mind like water from a spring. That is why Buddha said:

Yassa pure ca paccha ca majjhe ca natthi kincanam;
Akincanam anádánam tamaham vrúmi Bráhmanam.


[A person who has nothing before him, behind him, or in the
middle, who neither gives anything nor takes anything, I call a
Brahman.]

I will call that person a Brahman whose mind does not run after any colour, who is neither obsessed by colour-laden thoughts of the past nor influenced by such thoughts of the present. One who remains unassailed by the colour of any object is said to be established in vaerágya. To attain this vaerágya one need not flee to the Himalayas or smear the body with holy ashes. One must free the mind from the influence of colours.
At the time of Mahaprabhu, there was one very rich zamindar in Bengal. He was held in high esteem by the people as a wealthy man. Mahaprabhu sent one man to see just how far this gentleman was established in vaerágya. Upon returning, the emissary reported to Mahaprabhu: "Well, I went and saw that that man was enjoying his life, eating sumptuous food." In his view, this gentleman was far from being established in vaerágya. Then Mahaprabhu sent another man to verify this. The second man reported to Mahaprabhu that the person had acquired deep self-knowledge and the spirit of true renunciation. Then Mahaprabhu said, "Tell him to come, for he has come all the way from Chittagong to see me." He was a great devotee even though he enjoyed his physical wealth. Devotion is something internal.

Antare nishthá kara, báhya lokavyavahára;
Avasyai Prabhu tomáy kariben uddhár.


[Have reverential attachment in your heart, and externally deal
with things as you come across them. The Lord will surely
uplift you.]

So these are the qualities. The collective name of these six qualities is bhaga, and one who has fully imbibed these six qualities is bhagavána.
Any great person can be called bhagavána in this sense, but my Párthasárathi is not such a one. What is He? Krishnatu Bhagavána svayam - that is, "He is God incarnate." He is Púrna Brahma, Púrna Bhagavána. We can illustrate this with a story from the Mahabárata.
You know what happened at the time of Jayadratha's death. Arjuna, as per his vow, was supposed to go to the funeral pyre immediately after sunset in order to keep his promise. {Arjuna had taken a vow to kill Jayadrahta before sundown. Jayadrahta had succesfully hidden from Arjuna all day, but when it became dark, Jayadrahta came out into the open. -Eds}. Suddenly people observed that the sun was no longer in the sky and that it had become dark all around. Everyone thought that the sun had already set. Those who were devotees, not philosophers, commented that Lord Krishna had covered the sun with His Sudarshana Cakra [His special discus]. Now you can imagine that it is impossible to cover the sun with a discus. Is it possible to cover the sun with a dinner plate? When you observe a dinner plate close up, it seems about this large. But if you could see the sun close up, how big would it appear! If the dinner plate were placed near the sun, it would be a more speck. No, the discus could never cover the sun! Though the devotees claim that it did, I take this as a mere story. But then the question arises how the sun was in fact covered. The answer is that Lord Krishna willed it so. He had mastery over prakámya siddhi, one of the eight occult powers. He willed the sun to be covered by clouds, and so it happened. The sun was covered by clouds, and people thought that the sun had gone down. Soon Arjuna was able to keep his promise and kill Jayadrahta. To perform such a miraculous feat by going against the natural order cannot be accomplished by even a first-grade bhagavána, not to speak of a second- or third-grade one. Only Parama Purusha can do this. This is only one story. Dozens of similar stories can be found in the Mahábhárata.
 
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Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
I am sorry but that is tldr. but what I get is that if a being is immortal, super famous, and very brave, it's a god.

To others I don't know hy you are telling me which god you believe in, that wasn't the question.
 
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