What are the criterions for a god/gods?

[Marcion]

I am sorry but that is tldr. but what I get is that if a being is immortal, super famous, and very brave, it's a god.

Yes, if that personality has at least those six qualities of a Bhagavána and can also go against the natural world in a significant way with his occult powers (in order to teach), then He or She is seen as a special expression of Ishvara or God.
Jesus is said to have demonstrated some of his occult powers.
We are all sort of immortal but Iishvara is already fully liberated when He is born.
Krishna did not become "super famous" until a couple of hundred years after his life, initially He was only treated as God by a limited group of devotees.

If the universe is a projection of a Cosmic Consciousness and we are all (including all living things) on our way back to merging with that Cosmic Consciousness, would that Cosmic Consciousness send such type of God-like personalities around the planets of our universe in order to guide developed creatures to move faster in the right direction?

It all seems a bit far-fetched and irrational.

 

[Cacotopia]

I don't think we are biologically immortal but we certainly have the ability to be immortal in other ways. Like in culture, or history, or find immortality withing art. Who will be remembered in the 1000's of years to come, should our species persist that is.

What impact we leave can hopefully achieve a certain resemblance of immortality.

 

[Cacotopia]

Yes, if that personality has at least those six qualities of a Bhagavána and can also go against the natural world in a significant way with his occult powers (in order to teach), then He or She is seen as a special expression of Ishvara or God.
Jesus is said to have demonstrated some of his occult powers.
We are all sort of immortal but Iishvara is already fully liberated when He is born.
Krishna did not become "super famous" until a couple of hundred years after his life, initially He was only treated as God by a limited group of devotees.

If the universe is a projection of a Cosmic Consciousness and we are all (including all living things) on our way back to merging with that Cosmic Consciousness, would that Cosmic Consciousness send such type of God-like personalities around the planets of our universe in order to guide developed creatures to move faster in the right direction?

It all seems a bit far-fetched and irrational.

I think I can see an inkling of what you mean, but to me it would be like repurposing discoveries of understanding today to fit with that description. I think under special circumstances we are already at a state of "cosmic consciousness". In terms of matter and energy being interchangeable. But proving that that matter it is in a manner of sorts, sentient, would be the key to that view I suppose.

Like we can observe electrons as both matter and energy, but not simultaneously which offers the question, does it choose either state? Or are we incapable currently of seeing quantum entanglement. Which this conversation is about to fall of the "continental shelf" of my understanding of our universe.

 

[Marcion]

I think under special circumstances we are already at a state of "cosmic consciousness". In terms of matter and energy being interchangeable. But proving that that matter it is in a manner of sorts, sentient, would be the key to that view I suppose.

Yes, but the experience of our individual consciousness is still rather restricted by our being bound by time, place and person.
Once your consciousness becomes more and more expanded it will be easier for you to e.g. see or hear the thoughts and feelings of others or to know what happened in the past and will happen in the future. You will feel less and less limited by your personality and by the place and time you are still stuck in. Just like the Cosmic Consciousness who is at the root of the universe and was present at the birth of time, space and matter and is not bound by them but is Master of them in every way.

The consciousness of an animal is often more restricted than that of a human, their world is more dominated by their physical needs and basic emotions or instincts. The average consciousness of humans will keep on expanding in the future.

 

[Cacotopia]

Yes, but the experience of our individual consciousness is still rather restricted by our being bound by time, place and person.
Once your consciousness becomes more and more expanded it will be easier for you to e.g. see or hear the thoughts and feelings of others or to know what happened in the past and will happen in the future. You will feel less and less limited by your personality and by the place and time you are still stuck in. Just like the Cosmic Consciousness who is at the root of the universe and was present at the birth of time, space and matter and is not bound by them but is Master of them in every way.

The consciousness of an animal is often more restricted than that of a human, their world is more dominated by their physical needs and basic emotions or instincts. The average consciousness of humans will keep on expanding in the future.

Ah but the matter we are made of is not bound by those things.

 

[sealchan]

I interpret this somewhat differently. Search for the absolute truth, perfect avatar, teacher or mentor, and believing you can find it, as well as the belief on can attain the illusive detachment in perfection.

Do you believe you will actually find perfection or just approximations of it?

 

[shunyadragon]

Do you believe you will actually find perfection or just approximations of it?

Fallible humans can neither attain perfection, nor enlightenment, nor judge the degree of approximation? of attainment. From the human perspective it is journey not attainment.

 

[Quintessence]

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

The details of the narrative you created are unimportant to me, so I didn't really read it. Gods are that which a person or culture deems worthy of worship.

Worthy - deserving of regard or respect; of some value or merit.
Worship - giving of praise or gratitude; engaging in celebrations or rituals.

I am one who sees sacredness and divinity in all things - I see value and merit in all things. I also think being mindful of this through worship is important - thanksgiving and celebrations are key. The more pertinent question to ask is whether or not a particular expression of the divine is an important part of my life or if I value it enough that I want to make it an important part of my life. There are far fewer things that meet those criteria. At this point, I'm pretty settled in the sorts of things I would work into ritual practice. It's unlikely anything is going to unsettle that.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Some excerpts from the series of lectures bundled in the publication 'Namami Krsnasundaram' (pages 201-208) by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti (alias P.R. Sarkar) on the subject of the qualities of a Bhagavána in relation to Lord Krishna:
--- From the spiritual point of view, the word bhaga has two meanings - the first "spiritual effulgence" and the second, a combination of six qualities....
...
Aeshvaryainca samagrainca viiryainca yashasah shriyah;
Jinána vaerágyayoshca tu sannám bhaga iti smrtam.

[Bhága is a collection of six attributes: aeshvarya, viirya,
yasha, shrii, jinána and vaerárgya.]

Aeshvarya: One possessing all eight occult powers is know as Iishvara. The Latin equivalent of aeshvarya is "occult power".
Viirya: Virrya means "valour". .
Yasha: Yasha means "fame". ..
...
[You are taking affectionate care of people in Your sweet
home; You are really blessed; victory unto You. My very life
is Your gift, You are really blessed, victory unto You.]

Shrii: ... ..Shrii means the power of attraction - a unique combination of mutative lustre and inner vitality. All humans beings covet this rare quality, shrii, so even those who are devoid of shrii like to prefix their names with shrii. This is a very old custom in India. One may not have shrii, but one wants it, so that person adds it to his name.
Jinánam: Here jinánam means spiritual knowledge.
"Self-knowlegde is true knowledge, while other branches of knowledge are mere reflections of knowledge. They are umbra and the penumbra of knowlegde." Táni jinánávabhásán - "This is not knowledge but the reflection of knowledge." - sárasya naeva bodhanát - "One will never arrive at the truth through it."
Vairagya renunciation...
.

Maricon

I am so glad I did not continue my previous post on daivi sampadA (godliness) to list the shaD-aishvarya of bhagvAn -- because I was going to, and initially had the 6 oppulences listed in the same post but removed it. Guess what or who gave the buddhi to remove it?

This is a Leela as it was bound to happen, because you were to come here and make such a beautiful set of posts! Far far more beautiful and conveying than what I could have done.

At least people and the OP read it. They may not have read mine.

A very happy Anand-bhari KRshNa JanmAsTami to you. May KRshNa and Adi Shakti bless you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Magic? Immortality or a lifespan that spreads across eons?? Supreme intelligence? master over other life forms, natural element(s)? I am probably missing some feel free to fill in the blanks I missed.

Can technology grant some of these characteristics? Or would technology exclude one a status of being a god or god like?

Say an alien race decided to openly visit this world, we were able to establish communication with them and found them to have an avg lifespan of 10-35,000 of our years, were vastly more intelligent, had technology that granted them the ability to forge worlds, and manipulate nature at a whim, would they not be gods?

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

The only criterion I've found that seems common to all god-concepts I've encountered is that a god is an object of worship.

That doesn't generally seem to be sufficient (not all objects of worship are gods), but it does seem to be necessary (nothing that is not worshipped is a god).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As far as what may be called God, omnipotent and omnipresent, and omniscience, this is likely the only definition that does not carry a boat load of anthropomorphic interpretations and conceptions burdened by cultural images regardless of whether the reality of God exists or not.

Trying to avoid anthtopomorphisms in god-concepts is going to be an uphill battle, since, IMO, a god is an anthropomorphism.

As I see it, a god is a device constructed by people to put a relatable face on things that don't generally relate to us, whether it's the gods of different aspects of nature in the case of polytheism or a single face for the vast everything in the case of monotheism.

 

[shunyadragon]

Trying to avoid anthtopomorphisms in god-concepts is going to be an uphill battle, since, IMO, a god is an anthropomorphism.

OK. your view, but not that of the Baha'i Faith and the followers whom you cannot speak for.

As I see it, a god is a device constructed by people to put a relatable face on things that don't generally relate to us, whether it's the gods of different aspects of nature in the case of polytheism or a single face for the vast everything in the case of monotheism.

This is accepted considering your choice of belief system.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

OK. your view, but not that of the Baha'i Faith and the followers whom you cannot speak for.

I'm speaking about theism in general. I intended what I said to apply to Baha'is along with other theists.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm speaking about theism in general. I intended what I said to apply to Baha'is along with other theists.

Theism in general is too broad a brush to be meaningful concerning how people believe in God. I would agree with you when discussing specific beliefs, which include the majority of Christians believing an anthropomorphic God(s?)..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Theism in general is too broad a brush to be meaningful concerning how people believe in God.

There are a few commonalities. And when we're talking about theism, it's "gods," not "God." Theism in general encompasses more than just monotheistic god-concepts named "God."

I would agree with you when discussing specific beliefs, which include the majority of Christians believing an anthropomorphic God(s?)..

Any religion that involves a god that has a personality, makes plans, answers prayers, or feels emotions, etc., has an anthropomorohic god.

 

[shunyadragon]

There are a few commonalities. And when we're talking about theism, it's "gods," not "God." Theism in general encompasses more than just monotheistic god-concepts named "God."


Any religion that involves a god that has a personality, makes plans, answers prayers, or feels emotions, etc., has an anthropomorohic god.

Your trying to put your specific criteria as what kind of God is possible, and this is bizzarely unreal.

The Baha'i God does not make plans, nor has a personality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your trying to put your specific criteria as what kind of God is possible, and this is bizzarely unreal.

I haven't said anything at all about what's possible.

The Baha'i God does not make plans, nor has a personality.

I used an "or" in my list.

Do you pray to God with the hope that God will hear and understand your prayers? If you do, your god is anthropomorphic, IMO.

 

[Sir Doom]

Magic? Immortality or a lifespan that spreads across eons?? Supreme intelligence? master over other life forms, natural element(s)? I am probably missing some feel free to fill in the blanks I missed.

I think the only real quality a God needs is some sort of owness, responsibility, culpability or something similar over humanity. This can be direct or indirect, in part or in total, intentional or accidental, by origin or by maintenance.

It is important to note that this is only my personal requirement. To be a God (as I've mentioned in other threads) one only has to consider oneself God, and then convince anyone else that it's true. A being that thinks it is God and is treated as such, is God by all the rules I'm aware of.

Can technology grant some of these characteristics? Or would technology exclude one a status of being a god or god like?

Technology should be part and parcel. Even if God has some kind of magical force it doesn't mean it can't be enhanced through technology. Godhood is more of a relationship than a set if abilities.

Say an alien race decided to openly visit this world, we were able to establish communication with them and found them to have an avg lifespan of 10-35,000 of our years, were vastly more intelligent, had technology that granted them the ability to forge worlds, and manipulate nature at a whim, would they not be gods?

Depends on how they answer. If they don't consider themselves gods then that's that. If they do, well it's hard to argue with them.

Just what characteristics would such a being need to possess for you to grant them "god status?"

Other than the above? God must necessarily and undeniable be enamored with me personally. Reality simply makes no sense otherwise.

 

[syo]

immortality isn't possible

why?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Baha'i God does not make plans, nor has a personality.

FYI - I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do note that other Baha'i opinions appear to disagree with yours on this:

Our fellow human beings everywhere are insensibly subjected… to… the continuous operation of simultaneous processes of “rise and of fall, of integration and of disintegration, of order and chaos.” These Shoghi Effendi identified as aspects of the Major Plan and Minor Plan of God, the two known ways in which His purpose for humankind is going forward. The Major Plan is associated with turbulence and calamity and proceeds with an apparent, random disorderliness, but is, in fact, inexorably driving humanity towards unity and maturity… – The Universal House of Justice, April 1998, to the Baha’is of the World.

Minor Plan of God: The part of God’s Plan that is revealed by Baha’u’llah to His followers and is laid out for them in detailed instructions and successive plans by Abdu’l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi, and the Universal House of Justice. In contrast to the Major Plan of God, it proceeds in a methodical, ordered way, disseminating His teachings and raising up the structure of a united world society. – The Universal House of Justice, Messages 1963 to 1986, p. 747.

If you have decided to reject what the Universal House of Justice says about God's plans, that's fine by me - I'm sure there's plenty from them that I reject as well. Still, I don't think I'm going to take what you say as reflective of Baha'i belief in general.