What are the Major Advantages and Disadvantages of Socialism?

[nazz]

The biggest problems I can think of with socialism is which type to implement and how to implement it.

As I have suggested elsewhere does it even matter? Talking about the advantages of this or that form of socialism is like talking about the changes we would make when we take over the Catholic Church. It ain't gonna happen. The world is moving further and further away from even considering it. Yet at the same time there are more and more people who are coming into agreement with a general philosophy. Who are admitting the current system is broken. They are looking for alternatives.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The world is moving further and further away from even considering it.

Considering what?

 

[nazz]

Considering what?

Socialism as an alternative

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Socialism as an alternative

I don't think that's true.

 

[nazz]

I don't think that's true.

Really? We've witnessed the collapse of just about every Marxist economy and those who didn't have changed their policies toward a more capitalist model. Many formerly democratic socialist nations have changed as well. Anti-socialist sentiment in the US has never been stronger and many see the socialist bogeyman everywhere.

 

[nazz]

I would add that of the remaining socialist parties in the US most don't even bother fielding candidates anymore.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Really? We've witnessed the collapse of just about every Marxist economy and those who didn't have changed their policies toward a more capitalist model. Many formerly democratic socialist nations have changed as well. Anti-socialist sentiment in the US has never been stronger and many see the socialist bogeyman everywhere.

I would add that of the remaining socialist parties in the US most don't even bother fielding candidates anymore.

I think we're going through a period of greater social division. The gap between the rich and everyone else is a chasm that is growing wider and wider. We are seeing unrest throughout Europe over financial problems. There's a lot of anger over inequality, the destruction of the environment, corruption and so on. There is also the Occupy movement and my generation is more friendly towards socialist and communist viewpoints. Authentic leftist views are more acceptable now than they have been since the Cold War.

So I disagree with you.

 

[nazz]

I think we're going through a period of greater social division. The gap between the rich and everyone else is a chasm that is growing wider and wider. We are seeing unrest throughout Europe over financial problems. There's a lot of anger over inequality, the destruction of the environment, corruption and so on. There is also the Occupy movement and my generation is more friendly towards socialist and communist viewpoints. Authentic leftist views are more acceptable now than they have been since the Cold War.

So I disagree with you.

Well I was part of Occupy but what happened? It fizzled. And that was not an exclusively socialist movement anyway. There were many different political persuasions involved. I also lived through similar times in the 60's.

Yeah, there IS a lot of unrest and dissatisfaction, I agree. But not much consensus on solutions. The Left should focus on channeling that energy in a productive direction.

I'm just kind of rambling but it goes back to focusing on issues rather than some kind of systemic change. There are plenty of real battles being fought we can join, things we have talked about. That's where real change can occur, IMO.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well I was part of Occupy but what happened? It fizzled. And that was not an exclusively socialist movement anyway. There were many different political persuasions involved. I also lived through similar times in the 60's.

Yeah, there IS a lot of unrest and dissatisfaction, I agree. But not much consensus on solutions. The Left should focus on channeling that energy in a productive direction.

I'm just kind of rambling but it goes back to focusing on issues rather than some kind of systemic change. There are plenty of real battles being fought we can join, things we have talked about. That's where real change can occur, IMO.

Yes, I agree. We do need to be pragmatic about things. But I do think that the soil is very fertile, so to speak.

 

[nazz]

Yes, I agree. We do need to be pragmatic about things. But I do think that the soil is very fertile, so to speak.

A lot of people are definitely fed up with the status quo. You see a lot of people of different persuasions agreeing on that. But some look to the Tea Party and others to the Libertarians. I would love to see an issue focused left libertarian party emerge.

 

[Tarheeler]

I think we're ever so slowly moving towards a population that sees the merit in looking after each other and not allowing profits to rule our every decision. Whether or not that will result in a society built on socialism or not is hard to tell, but I do think that the days unbridled exploitation for profit are finally coming to an end.

And it's funny to see how many are completely uninformed when it comes to political ideologies. If you take individual planks from the left and present them to people without telling them they're from the SPUSA , the Green Party, or the DSA, they often don't find a whole lot they disagree with.

They're might be hope for us yet.

 

[nazz]

I think we're ever so slowly moving towards a population that sees the merit in looking after each other and not allowing profits to rule our every decision. Whether or not that will result in a society built on socialism or not is hard to tell, but I do think that the days unbridled exploitation for profit are finally coming to an end.

And it's funny to see how many are completely uninformed when it comes to political ideologies. If you take individual planks from the left and present them to people without telling them they're from the SPUSA , the Green Party, or the DSA, they often don't find a whole lot they disagree with.

They're might be hope for us yet.

Exactly, labels can get in the way. I find people who identify with the far right sometimes agree with what I'm saying.

 

[dust1n]

Rewarding the lazy and penalizing the hard working folks is a disincentive to productivity.

Unproductive countries will collapse under their own weight.

Are you talking about the country or any of the places I've ever worked?

 

[BSM1]

Brick and mortar, as in a home, why should we have to have money to have one? People had homes long before you had to buy one with money. You almost always here promises of having more with private-property based economies (from Locke to contemporary sources), yet they do not discuss the cost of more, which is that someone else will have less. People believe "owning" something increases responsibility, but it doesn't. The more we own, the more we destroy. The more we produce, the more we consume, the more we waste.
Actually, we don't need Capitalism. If anything, it has hastened our own demise.

People tend not to like free loaders.

What planet do you live on? But, again, what if someone simply doesn't want to do whatever Socialist job that he's assigned? What if he tells you to pound sand? Would the government, in your view, be obligated to make that person work? Pull his weight? Contribute to the common good?

 

[dust1n]

What are the major strengths and weaknesses of Socialism?

I'd be able to acquire the MRI's I so desperately need but can't really afford?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What planet do you live on? But, again, what if someone simply doesn't want to do whatever Socialist job that he's assigned? What if he tells you to pound sand? Would the government, in your view, be obligated to make that person work? Pull his weight? Contribute to the common good?

That is not socialism, it is totalitarianism. Socialism and Marxism do not equate to the state ruling your life. Rather, they are responses to the bourgeois running ours and making sure those that work have their basic needs met. Capitalism fails to do this, and it requires a degree of socialism to ensure that people who work have basic needs, like food, shelter, and health care, and other basic needs met.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd be able to acquire the MRI's I so desperately need but can't really afford?

It's absolute bull**** that anyone who is American has to go through with that. It's terrible anywhere it happens, but America is just far too wealthy of a nation for any of its citizens to go without needed health care. I'm not even 30 yet but I have painful arthritis in my knee because I went for a few years with a torn ligament and cartilage. One place I worked for provided very crappy insurance, and the machines we had to use gave alot of people carpal tunnel syndrome. The company was able to get out of paying for coverage (with one manager even taunting people to just try and take them to court), and because they did offer insurance no one qualified for any state insurance unless they were old, disabled, or pregnant.
There is a very serious problem when your most pragmatic options to health care become fraud (a few people I know in Tennessee offered to let me claim their address as my home address), robbing a bank (I personally know someone who done this to try and raise money for his mother's health care), or getting pregnant (does anyone really need it explained to them on why this is not a good thing?).

 

[dust1n]

It's absolute bull**** that anyone who is American has to go through with that. It's terrible anywhere it happens, but America is just far too wealthy of a nation for any of its citizens to go without needed health care. I'm not even 30 yet but I have painful arthritis in my knee because I went for a few years with a torn ligament and cartilage. One place I worked for provided very crappy insurance...

Let's put it this way. I've saving up for a 1500 MRI just to see where my condition stands. By doing this, the neurologist may be able to determine an appropriate course of action, which may include mediation with unpleasant side-effects (despite the fact I doubt I could afford them anyways). I didn't do Obamacare last year because I was holding out to see what my work offered, which of course turned out to be too expensive for any real benefits at all (though I got dental and vision finally). I took out a short term policy for 8 months at basically what I could afford. Despite me asking sort of specifically about exactly what I needed, a MRI should be covered. Unfortunately, it's only covered as an outpatient procedure, not a visit to a specialist. Thus 1500 dollar deductible. Basically the cost of an MRI.

However, last time I went to the hospital for an inevitable effect of my condition, it cost 30k dollars. Which the hospital basically ate the cost because I had no money.

Long story short, an MRI now could provide information necessary for doctors to determine the appropriate action to prevent and decrease the number of hospital visits, which will increase in cost as I get older.

It's a waste of money that everyone is already paying for regardless via the high costs of hospital bills deferred to other people, which increases the scam that is insurance costs that every pays for.

The only saving grace is the possibility that medical technology will get to a point when the most pertinent drugs, procedures and equipment are available at a much better cost, but knowing how global capitalism works, I don't expect much work to get done in the lowering of costs.

 

[BSM1]

That is not socialism, it is totalitarianism. Socialism and Marxism do not equate to the state ruling your life. Rather, they are responses to the bourgeois running ours and making sure those that work have their basic needs met. Capitalism fails to do this, and it requires a degree of socialism to ensure that people who work have basic needs, like food, shelter, and health care, and other basic needs met.

How do you ensure this happens?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How do you ensure this happens?

Better wages and benefits provided by the company would be ideal so the tax payers do not have to cover what isn't. If you work full time (or close to it since many places avoid OT at all costs, typically by capping hours to 36-38 a week), your basic needs should be met.
Ideally our needs would be real needs and we wouldn't have so much material junk in our lives, not so much waste, and we would have more resources to go around. But because we live in a society were your options for eating are having money, begging, or eating out of a dumpster, living wages and better benefits must be enforced. Social safety nets are great, but the working class should very rarely have to rely on them.