What are the Major Advantages and Disadvantages of Socialism?

[dust1n]

I have no compassion for people uninterested in bettering themselves who complain on the internet about not being able to access expensive medical procedures... when they have no marketable skills.

Trust me, we have no compassion for you either or whatever you are complaining about.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To give you an idea, I'm never made more than $11.25. I'm working overtime now just to be able to afford my bills, including the scams that are car and health insurance.

Cost of living is pretty high here. I'd hazard a guess it's more expensive that the US (since we seem to be more expensive than just about everyplace...lol)

Hmm...maybe not so much as I thought.
Source : Cost of Living Index by Country 2014 Mid Year

According to that, comparison of Australia to New York runs as follows;
CPI : Australia 115% (ie. Australia 15% higher than New York)
Rent : 62%
Groceries : 112%
Restaurants : 101%

Put it this way...I'd rather live on minimum wage here (Aust) than in the US...lol

 

[Revoltingest]

Cost of living is pretty high here. I'd hazard a guess it's more expensive that the US (since we seem to be more expensive than just about everyplace...lol)

Hmm...maybe not so much as I thought.
Source : Cost of Living Index by Country 2014 Mid Year

According to that, comparison of Australia to New York runs as follows;
CPI : Australia 115% (ie. Australia 15% higher than New York)
Rent : 62%
Groceries : 112%
Restaurants : 101%

Put it this way...I'd rather live on minimum wage here (Aust) than in the US...lol

Now you've done it!
I'll retaliate with a new thread!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Now you've done it!
I'll retaliate with a new thread!

Cool. I'm in. I find this stuff interesting.

 

[Revoltingest]

Reasons Americastan Is Better Than Australiastan! | Religion Forums

 

[Estro Felino]

Honestly...I really can't find any disadvantages. maybe because there aren't any.
you know...Socialism is an intelligent project, and is the product of history. Man has understood that everyone's welfare produces the individualistic welfare.
and not the opposite

 

[Yerda]

Honestly...I really can't find any disadvantages. maybe because there aren't any.
you know...Socialism is an intelligent project, and is the product of history. Man has understood that everyone's welfare produces the individualistic welfare.
and not the opposite

Would the fact that every time we try socialism we mess it up be a disadvantage?

Even in the moderate and successful social democracies of Northern Europe the progress made is being continually scaled back.

 

[metis]

What a silly assumption in a feeble attempt to discredit anyone who preaches taking responsibility for one's self.

All I am saying is, you can't expect to afford to live alone and raise a family on a minimum wage job.

You can live out in the world with room mates and pooling resources, but expecting to be gainfully employed and able to start a family is unrealistic.

Some of you may imply I am heartless, but not compared to third world countries who don't even have clean drinking water.

I have no compassion for people uninterested in bettering themselves who complain on the internet about not being able to access expensive medical procedures or why they can't afford to raise a family when they have no marketable skills.

You flush your toilet with clean drinking water for God's sake. Poverty looks pretty good to people in other places in the world.

We have raised a generation of spoiled lazy brats!

Not everyone is going to be able to find a good-paying job in a free-market economy, and since the minimum wage is so low, that leaves many unable to "make it". Even if everyone in the U.S. had a ph.d., there would still be millions who would be working for minimum wage as anyone who has any serious understanding of macro-economics would know.

Therefore, those stereotyping the poor as automatically being ignorant or lazy is complete nonsense, and putting one's "precious money" over the well-being of our fellow Americans is nothing short of selfishness no matter how some try and song-and-dance their way out of actually helping their fellow Americans that are in need. For some, their greed has no limits.

 

[Estro Felino]

Would the fact that every time we try socialism we mess it up be a disadvantage?

Even in the moderate and successful social democracies of Northern Europe the progress made is being continually scaled back.

Precisely. and do you know why Socialism ends up being a failure in most countries?

because all statesmen are cut from the same cloth.
They are all greedy and money-hungry: and ready to betray the state interest just for vile money.

But if all the people were as pure in heart as Jesus Christ, I assure you that Socialism would work in any country.
so I want to ask you: do you think it is possible? I do

 

[metis]

Just a reminder that there are various forms of what we call "socialism", and some forms have definitely shown that they can work quite well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What a silly assumption in a feeble attempt to discredit anyone who preaches taking responsibility for one's self.

All I am saying is, you can't expect to afford to live alone and raise a family on a minimum wage job.

You can live out in the world with room mates and pooling resources, but expecting to be gainfully employed and able to start a family is unrealistic.

Some of you may imply I am heartless, but not compared to third world countries who don't even have clean drinking water.

I have no compassion for people uninterested in bettering themselves who complain on the internet about not being able to access expensive medical procedures or why they can't afford to raise a family when they have no marketable skills.

You flush your toilet with clean drinking water for God's sake. Poverty looks pretty good to people in other places in the world.

We have raised a generation of spoiled lazy brats!

It has nothing to do with being lazy. You can't even live a simple life relatively free of the hassles of Capitalism because you won't make enough money to make ends meat. "Free market" Capitalism claims to be all about personal choice, but you can't choose to minimally participate with selling your labour and expect to make enough money to have enough. I'd be happy working at a gas station, because you get more time for your own self and less work time invading into your private life, but you don't make enough to make enough. Someone has to run those stores, they are essential for society, but they don't make enough.

 

[dust1n]

Cost of living is pretty high here. I'd hazard a guess it's more expensive that the US (since we seem to be more expensive than just about everyplace...lol)

Hmm...maybe not so much as I thought.
Source : Cost of Living Index by Country 2014 Mid Year

According to that, comparison of Australia to New York runs as follows;
CPI : Australia 115% (ie. Australia 15% higher than New York)
Rent : 62%
Groceries : 112%
Restaurants : 101%

Put it this way...I'd rather live on minimum wage here (Aust) than in the US...lol

Min. Wage is state by state mostly, since the Federal government refuses to raise it, states have to do it on their own accord. Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25. So your over double minimum wage hasn't resulted in the doubling of prices in Australia?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Min. Wage is state by state mostly, since the Federal government refuses to raise it, states have to do it on their own accord. Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25. So your over double minimum wage hasn't resulted in the doubling of prices in Australia?

Nah. We don't tip, as a rule, although it's no uncommon for people to optionally leave something for good service. And cleaners here will always complain that they're underpaid, etc, despite the higher minimum.

We don't tend to point to America and tell them 'At least you're not over there' though. Main thing here is to make sure minimum wage is actually paid, and that minority groups (in particular) aren't being paid cash under the table to do a job for less than minimum. I think it's pretty well-policed, but it's not perfect.

 

[dust1n]

Nah. We don't tip, as a rule, although it's no uncommon for people to optionally leave something for good service. And cleaners here will always complain that they're underpaid, etc, despite the higher minimum.

We don't tend to point to America and tell them 'At least you're not over there' though. Main thing here is to make sure minimum wage is actually paid, and that minority groups (in particular) aren't being paid cash under the table to do a job for less than minimum. I think it's pretty well-policed, but it's not perfect.

That's alright. If people in America make tips, than legally, you can pay them $2.15 an hour, or whatever equals out to $7.25 if tips fall short (though this is never enforced) and most tips go completely untaxed and stay hidden from the government.

To be fair, everyone in the world I'm sure feels underpaid.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Min. Wage is state by state mostly, since the Federal government refuses to raise it, states have to do it on their own accord. Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25. So your over double minimum wage hasn't resulted in the doubling of prices in Australia?

I've been wondering what would happen if the push for a minimum wage of $15 an hour would do around here. Around here that's more than most factories and warehouses. No doubt it would change a lot of stuff, and I wonder what would happen if minimum wage is pushed up to around what a low-end skill trade job pays. Here $10 in hour is about what it should be so people don't have to rely on the government to cover what their employers won't, and still have abit to save or spend. If minimum wage jumped up to $15 an hour I don't know what would happen. In Australia the cost of living is higher, but the minimum wage is so much higher that I wonder if it's that big of a problem.

 

[Aquitaine]

Workers whore their wares. If they ever realized the true value of their labor, they would quit giving it away at a discount.

But aren't a lot of today's succesful Capitalist businesses dependent on "Workers whoring their labour at a discount" - wouldn't much of the the Western world collapse without the wage slavery of the Chinese and Indians etc?

 

[dust1n]

But aren't a lot of today's succesful Capitalist businesses dependent on "Workers whoring their labour at a discount" - wouldn't much of the the Western world collapse without the wage slavery of the Chinese and Indians etc?

They would certainly be bored without their gadgets.

 

[Reverend Rick]

But aren't a lot of today's succesful Capitalist businesses dependent on "Workers whoring their labour at a discount" - wouldn't much of the the Western world collapse without the wage slavery of the Chinese and Indians etc?

I really don't think so. Labor is just one part of the puzzle. Rent, utilities, taxes, supplies all go up but for some reason labor always falls behind.

You don't see a doughnut factory close when the price of sugar goes up.

Most business models just have an acceptable percentage for labor.

Seriously, if people refused to work for next to nothing, they collectively would do better.

My issue is people should not expect to better themselves doing a simple mindless job. The health care industry pays better because people who train for these jobs demand a higher wage.

If you want to improve your life you have to become a higher caliber person.

You can't ask people if they want fries with that all their lives.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I really don't think so. Labor is just one part of the puzzle. Rent, utilities, taxes, supplies all go up but for some reason labor always falls behind.

You don't see a doughnut factory close when the price of sugar goes up.

Most business models just have an acceptable percentage for labor.

Seriously, if people refused to work for next to nothing, they collectively would do better.

My issue is people should not expect to better themselves doing a simple mindless job. The health care industry pays better because people who train for these jobs demand a higher wage.

If you want to improve your life you have to become a higher caliber person.

You can't ask people if they want fries with that all their lives.

The bold is a problem because it can't be done on an individual level. You have to trust everyone to do it and that simply isn't feasible in the current situation. There are too many people that would rather have very very very little than nothing.


It is harder now to get an education than it was even a few years ago. Most AS degree programs cost nearly 5-10 thousand dollars to get through, some don't accept financial aid, and you don't really make enough to live.

I worked in the healthcare industry for a long time. I worked as a CNA which I had a certification for and I didn't make very much at all. I think when I left after five years of raises I made a little over 12 dollars an hour. I got another job in registration and insurance which paid substantially more but even at 16 dollars an hour being the only one working with a disabled wife (and making too much money to collect disability) I was very poor. The prospect of getting a card was just out of my reach and getting to a better place with better rent was a pipe dream.

There was no way for me to buy my own home at that level and I had next to no assets. Eventually I got through with my BA and had somewhere around 40k in debt. And I still don't make a lot of money. I feel like its tight now and I make much more than I did before. I'm going back to get a master's degree in another field just to try and pay off my student loans in time to start paying for my Children's college fund.

Fixing education and making it easier to obtain (such as .5% interest rates on subsidized student loans as well as making them more accessible and with less restrictions of classes) while putting caps on public University tuition prices.

A much better public education prior to secondary education would assist the future but right now at this very second we have a lot of people who are either underemployed or unable to go back to school either from time restraints (try fitting in college time between two jobs and raising children as a single parent for example) or for money restraints (unable to get student loan or unable to pay back loans in a reasonable time after getting said degree)

 

[Reverend Rick]

It took me 10 years to get my masters. I worked a full time job and started a business as well and was a father to two children and managed to keep a marriage working.

I have them raised and my youngest is starting her masters.

I have elderly parents that need help plus I retired.

I won't lie, I'm just about broke now.

Medical bills have not helped this situation.

My solution now is I live off grid and have very little expenses now.