What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Kerr]

"Clay minerals are formed by water alteration of silicate minerals. As soon as liquid water appeared in the surface of the primitive Earth, clay minerals probably accumulated and became suspended in the primitive ocean. The importance of clay mineral in the origins of life was first suggested by Bernal [6]. The advantageous features of clays for Bernal were (i) their ordered arrangement, (ii) their large adsorption capacity, (iii) their shielding against sunlight, (iv) their ability to concentrate organic chemicals, and (v) their ability to serve as polymerization templates. Since the seminal hypothesis of Bernal, many prebiotic scenarios involving clays have been written and many prebiotic experiments have used clays. So far, the most impressive results have been obtained by Ferris at al. [7]. Oligomers up to 55 long were obtained for both nucleotides and amino acids in the presence of montmorillonite for nucleotides and of illite for amino acids."

http://www.dlr.de/me/PortalData/25/Resources/dokumente/strahlenbiologie/astrobook/P2_05.pdf

It should be noted that from what I have read, the importance lie as an accelerator and not as something we where created from.

 

[neves]

It should be noted that from what I have read, the importance lie as an accelerator and not as something we where created from.

dualy noted...

Qur'an, Surah 23: AL-MUMENOON (THE BELIEVERS)-verse 12:

YUSUFALI: Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay);
PICKTHAL: Verily We created man from a product of wet earth;
SHAKIR: And certainly We created man of an extract of clay,

 

[neves]

How does that equal creating humans from clay?

BTW, you'll know this better than I do - but were not animals supposed to be created only from water according to the qur'an? Was not "clay", if you can call it that, reserved only for humans? (and really, I don't know if this is even the case, it's just something I seem to remember from another thread...)

can you please rephrase this question...

 

[gnostic]

Qur'an, Surah 23: AL-MUMENOON (THE BELIEVERS)-verse 12:

YUSUFALI: Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay);
PICKTHAL: Verily We created man from a product of wet earth;
SHAKIR: And certainly We created man of an extract of clay,

Quoting from the Qur'an doesn't prove the man. Where are the scientific evidences that man was created from clay. Unless you can prove that, the scripture is no better than Sumerian and Akkadian myths that also narrated that gods and goddesses created mankind. All the Qur'an is doing, is continuing to perpetrating an ancient myth, 2-and-half millennia before Muhammad's time. And myth is not science, never have been.

I am not impressed with the Muslims use of the Qur'an with science.

And that the other mistakes that Muslims make. Confusing what's written in the Qur'an as science. Quoting vague verses that are open into any sort of interpretations, showed not only lack of scholarship, but lacking in scientific knowledge, and how knowledge being used or validated through evidences. The Qur'an supply no evidences, such as the creation of man (creation myth), or Solomon controlling winds or talking to the animals (fable) like Doctor Dolittle.

 

[Commoner]

can you please rephrase this question...

Sure... It seems to me you were trying to validate the passages in the Qur'an that speak of man being created from clay by quoting a text describing prebiotic experiments involving the use of clay.

If that is what you were trying to point out then I don't understand the connection between those experiments and the assertion that man was created from clay (or more precisely, dust and water). Isn't that what you wanted to show?

 

[neves]

Quoting from the Qur'an doesn't prove the man. Where are the scientific evidences that man was created from clay. Unless you can prove that, the scripture is no better than Sumerian and Akkadian myths that also narrated that gods and goddesses created mankind. All the Qur'an is doing, is continuing to perpetrating an ancient myth, 2-and-half millennia before Muhammad's time. And myth is not science, never have been.

I am not impressed with the Muslims use of the Qur'an with science.

And that the other mistakes that Muslims make. Confusing what's written in the Qur'an as science. Quoting vague verses that are open into any sort of interpretations, showed not only lack of scholarship, but lacking in scientific knowledge, and how knowledge being used or validated through evidences. The Qur'an supply no evidences, such as the creation of man (creation myth), or Solomon controlling winds or talking to the animals (fable) like Doctor Dolittle.

All I tried to show was that the Quran does not contradict science... You assume I was quoting it to show it is a scientific book... for that , I donno how to reply...

 

[neves]

Sure... It seems to me you were trying to validate the passages in the Qur'an that speak of man being created from clay by quoting a text describing prebiotic experiments involving the use of clay.

If that is what you were trying to point out then I don't understand the connection between those experiments and the assertion that man was created from clay (or more precisely, dust and water). Isn't that what you wanted to show?

I was trying to show that clay had an important role in the creation of life...

 

[Commoner]

I was trying to show that clay had an important role in the creation of life...

I understand that, I just don't think it addresses the issue.

 

[YmirGF]

I was trying to show that clay had an important role in the creation of life...

Indeed, but our bodies also have all the constituent components of alcohol so following this line of thought one could claim that we were made out of vodka too. In this respect, it is a profoundly useless assertion to say we are made from clay.

 

[gnostic]

All I tried to show was that the Quran does not contradict science... You assume I was quoting it to show it is a scientific book... for that , I donno how to reply...

It not contradict science, it is also a complete utter lie. Show me evidence that we have silicates (clay molecules) in our body, then I'll agree with you that the Qur'an speak the truth. Otherwise, both the Qur'an and Bible/Tanakh are dishonest.

 

[neves]

It not contradict science, it is also a complete utter lie. Show me evidence that we have silicates (clay molecules) in our body, then I'll agree with you that the Qur'an speak the truth. Otherwise, both the Qur'an and Bible/Tanakh are dishonest.

Why do you come to the conclusion that it has to be in our bodies now, for it to be of importance for our creation...?

 

[YmirGF]

Why do you come to the conclusion that it has to be in our bodies now, for it to be of importance for our creation...?

Because otherwise it is a profoundly useless assertion. Is there any part of "profoundly useless" that you do not understand? I may as well claim that we are made out of catnip.
You see, Neves. The only reason Muslims trumpet this useless claim is because it is written in their "unerring" book, that is only "unerring" if one leaps through several hoops to smooth over the obvious contradictions.

 

[neves]

Indeed, but our bodies also have all the constituent components of alcohol so following this line of thought one could claim that we were made out of vodka too. In this respect, it is a profoundly useless assertion to say we are made from clay.

Your a jerk YmirGF...

My curiosity made me go look at what the chemical components of alcohol was...

now that was "profoundly useless" use of time ...

 

[YmirGF]

Your a jerk YmirGF...

Perhaps, but I am a few leaps beyond stupid.

My curiosity made me go look at what the chemical components of alcohol was...

now that was "profoundly useless" use of time ...

Ah, so then you now must get my point about how profoundly useless it is to assert that we are formed from clay. Good. There, it wasn't a waste of time now, was it.

I was going to use the term "profoundly ignorant" but felt that was a tad incendiary, even though that characterization is also accurate.

 

[neves]

Because otherwise it is a profoundly useless assertion. Is there any part of "profoundly useless" that you do not understand? I may as well claim that we are made out of catnip.
You see, Neves. The only reason Muslims trumpet this useless claim is because it is written in their "unerring" book, that is only "unerring" if one leaps through several hoops to smooth over the obvious contradictions.

In my opinion that is a false way to look at the Quran... I see It as a book of signs and not a sole book of science...

 

[gnostic]

Why do you come to the conclusion that it has to be in our bodies now, for it to be of importance for our creation...?

If you have to ask such question, then clearly you don't understand what scientific evidences are....

What do you think science is, neves? Is having evidences that support the theory. Without the evidences then the theory is no more than hypothesis.

You say the Qur'an that don't contradict science, but if you believe that then there have to be evidences to support the Qur'an. And you have no evidences with regards to creation of man from clay, then clearly the Qur'an is unproven and unsupported.

All I tried to show was that the Quran does not contradict science...

You have just contradicted science with this:

Why do you come to the conclusion that it has to be in our bodies now, for it to be of importance for our creation...?

You say one thing, but then you say something completely different. You say the Qur'an support science, but you refused to support it with evidences. Do you see the contradiction of what you are saying?

 

[neves]

Perhaps, but I am a few leaps beyond stupid.


Ah, so then you now must get my point about how profoundly useless it is to assert that we are formed from clay. Good. There, it wasn't a waste of time now, was it.

so you are saying clay was not apart of origins of life than?

 

[gnostic]

In my opinion that is a false way to look at the Quran... I see It as a book of signs and not a sole book of science...

If it is a book of signs, then I would agree with you.

But you have bunch of Muslims quoting some gibberish from the Qur'an stating that it has scientific values in the Science vs Religion debates.

If your Qur'an is so perfect, then it would explain natural phenomena, scientifically. But it doesn't.

 

[neves]

If you have to ask such question, then clearly you don't understand what scientific evidences are....

What do you think science is, neves? Is having evidences that support the theory. Without the evidences then the theory is no more than hypothesis.

You say the Qur'an that don't contradict science, but if you believe that then there have to be evidences to support the Qur'an. And you have no evidences with regards to creation of man from clay, then clearly the Qur'an is unproven and unsupported.



You have just contradicted science with this:



You say one thing, but then you say something completely different. You say the Qur'an support science, but you refused to support it with evidences. Do you see the contradiction of what you are saying?

I see the problem now... you don't understand what the Quran says... also can you show me where I tried to show that the Quran was a book of science in the thread?

I already have shown the importance of clay in the origins of life...

 

[Commoner]

I see the problem now... you don't understand what the Quran says... also can you show me where I tried to show that the Quran was a book of science in the thread?

I already have shown the importance of clay in the origins of life...

Don't forget the Vodka!