What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Autodidact]

Which one are you referring to?

Whether 301s comments are Islamic or Muslim.

 

[dust1n]

Especially, to be honest, because i personally don't disagree with anyone on everything. In other words, there isn't a member i can think of now, that has nothing good to say, so i think i should just criticize the method or the bad behavior itself, instead of the person.

Now that is words of wisdom.

No one agrees on the all fronts, indeed.

 

[*Anne*]

I still see what you mean though, but take it as us being nice, or considerate. Not necessarily refusing to admit any mistake on behalf of Muslims.

I'd call it "diplomatic."

Diplomacy: The business of handling a porcupine without disturbing the quills. ~Author Unknown

 

[Badran]

Whether 301s comments are Islamic or Muslim.

If you mean are they Islamic, or only representing his personal opinion. Then he was talking about Fatihah. He was praising him. The part about a drop of blood thing, i think he was talking about his personal opinion. Not Islamic teachings.

 

[Luminous]

Response: Only in the eyes of Agnostics is it clear that the truth is Agnosticism. But in islam, muslims acknowledge that the truth is in fact, islam.

And in Christianity, Christians acknowledge that the truth is in fact, Christianity. but such logic is useless for debate and the betterment of our knowledge in general. To me, it is clear that YOU are agnostic, but dont accept it.
To you, it is clear that I am not Submitting to the Will of God.
To me, it is clear that I AM and you are too.
But becuase my goal is not paradoxical in its logic, it is clear that debate and experiment is neccessary; to arraive closer at the truth.

 

[Commoner]

I still see what you mean though, but take it as us being nice, or considerate. Not necessarily refusing to admit any mistake on behalf of Muslims.

Still, there is a feeling that only Muslims are extended that courtesy. I've yet to come across a Muslim unwilling to tell me what he thinks of my position, for instance. But when someone claims to be Muslim as well it seems they can say just about anything and not get criticized by other Muslims - even though their words shape other people's opinion of Islam. Well...there may be a few exceptions and you might be one of them.

 

[Luminous]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

There is no proof, you are completely right and i am sorry that i wanted to debate with you. It is clear, since there is no prove againts it, that you are a fountain of undeniable logic and truth and i should have never questioned your superiority. By definition, you are right. And definition is by definition, Truth.
No matter who or what defines it.

 

[Autodidact]

If you mean are they Islamic, or only representing his personal opinion. Then he was talking about Fatihah. He was praising him. The part about a drop of blood thing, i think he was talking about his personal opinion. Not Islamic teachings.

Thank you, Badran. I disagree with you a lot, but I respect and appreciate you. I probably should have been more clear. 301 said:

None of the unbelieving mankind is worthy of a toe nail of a muslim brother like fatihah. Take that.

Now I think that's a cruel, bigoted, hateful, really pitiful thing to say. I asked if it's "Islamic," but I didn't mean is it a teaching of Islam (although there are some Islamic teachings that lead in that direction, don't you agree?). What I meant is, is this sort of hateful attitude toward non-Muslims consistent with Islamic values?

What I find happens is the horrible posts, the vitriol, rudeness, evasiveness and poor logic of many Muslims here at RF (which is the only place I discuss religion with Muslims) really turns people away from Islam. If Islam teaches people to act and think like that, most decent people naturally want nothing to do with it.

If an atheist had said something like that, I would jump down his throat right here for all to see. I would not want that sort of tripe to be seen as representing atheism.

But Muslims here didn't even blink. It didn't merit comment. And that speaks volumes to us.

(Of course, atheists rarely say hateful things like that. Apparently atheists are generally nicer than Muslims.)

 

[*Anne*]

Now I think that's a cruel, bigoted, hateful, really pitiful thing to say.

I think it was cruel too. My hope is that he said that out of anger, and he doesn't really believe that in his heart. (I realize I may be wrong.)

 

[Badran]

Still, there is a feeling that only Muslims are extended that courtesy. I've yet to come across a Muslim unwilling to tell me what he thinks of my position, for instance. But when someone claims to be Muslim as well it seems they can say just about anything and not get criticized by other Muslims. Well...there are a few exceptions, you might be one of them.

Thank you. I understand what you are saying. As far as i've seen, what you are saying is true. But some Muslims do criticize other Muslims, directly talking to them, when they are doing that thing deserving of criticism. So, I hope Muslims here will be able to answer your post here, since it is not talking about anybody in particular, i've been here a very short time, and i'm unaware of why they might do what you are talking about.

 

[Luminous]

Islam...which you cannot define in any valuable form, because it is a far too extensive and anti-agnostic believe system and thus circular and irrational.
Agnosticism is Truth, because in the end...certainty is absurd. and If there is a God, that God creates us Agnostic and we are later currupted by human idols such as books and writings and other such products of our fellow and fallable brothers and sisters. Science is about the only method to arraive close to the truth and science rellies on the Agnostic Spirit in its indevours. without the Agnostic spirit, there would likely be no progress and only retardation.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

Well, i guess proof would be whatever gets you to agree with me, so i must start with the question...what is wrong about my statement:
Do you disagree with my claim that Islam is extensive?
Do you disagree with my claim that Muhammudism goes against the agnostic principle?
Does Prolytserization of Islam not employ circular logic?
Is circular logic not irrational?
My claim that you have not defined Islam in any valuable form is rather dependent on perspective, but because of that, it is a fact that you have not defined Islam in any valuable form to me. Thus the claim requires no "prove" as it is merely the fact and not the argument...
in anycase, i have rather wondered off topic from what i was stating before, i'll come back and try to make sure your cop-out doesn't work.

Edit-
oh, now i recall:

Originally Posted by Fatihah
Response: Only in the eyes of Agnostics is it clear that the truth is Agnosticism. But in islam, muslims acknowledge that the truth is in fact, islam.

You cannot acknowledge that the truth is Islam if you do not agree on what the truth is...unless you make Islam secular, there is no way for Islam to be truely defined, meaningfully. there must no "etcs". Muslims differ in their views on Islam, and thus there is no meaningfull subtance to the statement that. "the fact is i am right".

 

[.lava]

I think it was cruel too. My hope is that he said that out of anger, and he doesn't really believe that in his heart. (I realize I may be wrong.)

i would have to agree with that. i don't understand purpose of saying it

.

 

[Fatihah]

I think it was cruel too. My hope is that he said that out of anger, and he doesn't really believe that in his heart. (I realize I may be wrong.)

Response: When read in its context, it clearly isn't rude or cruel. Clearly, he is speaking against the negativity advocated by mestemia. In defense of myself and islam, he made a comment out of sarcasm. In fact, he later said so. What I find odd is how non-muslims had nothing to say when mestemia said his cruel and negative comments which sparked the sarcasm. He even used profanity. It's double standards like that by non-muslims which is important to address in this didcussion as well. So my question to you and other non-muslims on the thread is why are you not speaking against mestemia's comments?

 

[Badran]

Thank you, Badran. I disagree with you a lot, but I respect and appreciate you. I probably should have been more clear.

Thank you. I have the same appreciation and respect for you too.

Now I think that's a cruel, bigoted, hateful, really pitiful thing to say. I asked if it's "Islamic," but I didn't mean is it a teaching of Islam (although there are some Islamic teachings that lead in that direction, don't you agree?). What I meant is, is this sort of hateful attitude toward non-Muslims consistent with Islamic values?

What I find happens is the horrible posts, the vitriol, rudeness, evasiveness and poor logic of many Muslims here at RF (which is the only place I discuss religion with Muslims) really turns people away from Islam. If Islam teaches people to act and think like that, most decent people naturally want nothing to do with it.

If an atheist had said something like that, I would jump down his throat right here for all to see. I would not want that sort of tripe to be seen as representing atheism.

But Muslims here didn't even blink. It didn't merit comment. And that speaks volumes to us.

(Of course, atheists rarely say hateful things like that. Apparently atheists are generally nicer than Muslims.)

I think he said that because he felt that Fatihah have been under attack or slander here, so he responded like that. I disagree of course with what he said, but i don't think he really meant that.

The part about that this attitude being consistent with Muslim. I think it is safe to say that this judging attitude is consistent with some believers or religionists in general. There are some, who always generalize against atheists and judge them in this way. Just like some (not all) atheists also generalize against religionists being irrational or any other thing that other atheists usually also criticize believers of, but in a much nicer way. So, it is just a bad thing that people do(judging).

 

[Fatihah]

Well, i guess proof would be whatever gets you to agree with me, so i must start with the question...what is wrong about my statement:
Do you disagree with my claim that Islam is extensive?
Do you disagree with my claim that Muhammudism goes against the agnostic principle?
Does Prolytserization of Islam not employ circular logic?
Is circular logic not irrational?
My claim that you have not defined Islam in any valuable form is rather dependent on perspective, but because of that, it is a fact that you have not defined Islam in any valuable form to me. Thus the claim requires no "prove" as it is merely the fact and not the argument...
in anycase, i have rather wondered off topic from what i was stating before, i'll come back and try to make sure your cop-out doesn't work.

Edit-
oh, now i recall:

You cannot acknowledge that the truth is Islam if you do not agree on what the truth is...unless you make Islam secular, there is no way for Islam to be truely defined, meaningfully.

Response: For starters, your statement that I have not defined islam in any valuable form to you implies as if I wake up with a natural desire to satisfy luminous and ignored my nature. You've never asked me to explain islam to you. So to ask why I didn't give an explanation to something which was never asked of me by you is irrational to begin with.

But the proof I originally requested for is of your claim that islam is irrational.

 

[.lava]

i would like to say that it is not friendly to focus on certain people and start a personal bashing on them. i would refuse to join cos i think it is primitive and unnecessary. i might disgree with some Muslims but it is a disagreement nothing more or less. why would some non-Muslims want us Muslims to fight each other? i don't want to fight anyone. we sometimes disagree and you see it. why do you want us to fight like enemies to each other? would it make our disagreement more real or what? it makes no sense to me

.

 

[*Anne*]

Response: When read in its context, it clearly isn't rude or cruel. Clearly, he is speaking against the negativity advocated by mestemia. In defense of myself and islam, he made a comment out of sarcasm. In fact, he later said so.

I realized this was a reaction to a previous poster, which is why I hope the words were the result of anger.

What I find odd is how non-muslims had nothing to say when mestemia said his cruel and negative comments which sparked the sarcasm. He even used profanity. It's double standards like that by non-muslims which is important to address in this didcussion as well.

I cannot remember what Mestemia said, but I will go back and refresh my memory.

I will say this though: Sometimes it's hard to find diplomacy on forums. There are many times when I want to jump in and say something, defend someone, but I don't simply because I don't want to get pulled into the mess as it unravels. Perhaps this approach is wrong.

In the end, I don't like to see anyone ridiculed or belittled in any way.

 

[Sahar]

I've yet to come across a Muslim unwilling to tell me what he thinks of my position, for instance. But when someone claims to be Muslim as well it seems they can say just about anything and not get criticized by other Muslims - even though their words shape other people's opinion of Islam.

I think you need to stay more on the forum. First, there are non Muslims who say the worst things about Islam and Muslims and they get ignored by some Muslims I know including myself intentionally. So some Muslim members here literally don't bother speaking out against them.
Secondly, throughout my 4 years on the forum, I have seen Muslim members disagreeing with other fellow Muslims openly and strongly. And some Muslims are rude to other Muslims, not that it is a good thing or something. Some Muslims go further into calling other Muslims "kafir"... not that I advocate it. Stating some facts here.

 

[Luminous]

Response: When read in its context, it clearly isn't rude or cruel. Clearly, he is speaking against the negativity advocated by mestemia. In defense of myself and islam, he made a comment out of sarcasm. In fact, he later said so. What I find odd is how non-muslims had nothing to say when mestemia said his cruel and negative comments which sparked the sarcasm. He even used profanity. It's double standards like that by non-muslims which is important to address in this didcussion as well.

I agree with this. however, evil for evil is still evil...and Mestemia never declared that you were less valuable, just that you were wrong. Mestemia said that your arguments and deeds were detrimental to "Islam" and even used censored profanity to communicate that "a mistake by Muslims when informing others about Islam" is letting you rant without anysort of intervention or correction...from that 301 decided it would be funny to call those who are different from you as less than a body part of little value. i didn't think much of 301's claim, since it is clearly hyperbole. such hyperbole that many muslims often disagree with vehemently when non-Muslims do it against them. thus begging the question, Is such a statement Islamic? and should it not be called out and corrected. I do not agree with this...but i do not really see hypocracy as Mestemia clearly only represents himself. Yes, Mestemia can be overly caustic and the such, but who am i to point out something for which there is no real standards, all he must do is follow the forum rules. that is why i didn't really mind 301's statement. about "sparking the sarcasm" i dont really see the meaning of such logic as it is called, infinite regresion(i believe), clearly you sparked Mestemia's hatred toward your way of informing others about Islam. so it is also your fault, as it is mine.

 

[Sahar]

i would like to say that it is not friendly to focus on certain people and start a personal bashing on them. i would refuse to join cos i think it is primitive and unnecessary. i might disgree with some Muslims but it is a disagreement nothing more or less. why would some non-Muslims want us Muslims to fight each other? i don't want to fight anyone. we sometimes disagree and you see it. why do you want us to fight like enemies to each other? would it make our disagreement more real or what? it makes no sense to me

.

Great post sis.

i would refuse to join cos i think it is primitive and unnecessary.

:clap