What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[*Anne*]

I found it. I agree with Not4Me's response: We can ask our questions and make our points without bringing up names and targeting certain people. I value Mestemia's opinions and knowledge, but if asked, I would have cautioned him to reword his post.

I'm sorry, Fatihah, that I didn't speak up sooner.

 

[Luminous]

Response: For starters, your statement that I have not defined islam in any valuable form to you implies as if I wake up with a natural desire to satisfy luminous and ignored my nature. You've never asked me to explain islam to you. So to ask why I didn't give an explanation to something which was never asked of me by you is irrational to begin with.

But the proof I originally requested for is of your claim that islam is irrational.

I was speaking more in the context that Islam has yet to be defined clearly to me, being as it is supposed to be the truth and yet it has deviations. that is what i see as irrational, though circular logic is often employed to legitimize Islam, that is also irrational. a Muslim tried to define Islam as believe in One-sole God, and Muhaamud as his profit...etc etc, but on the details of what God's Will is...that is where most muslims and religions are sketchi. So you cannot claim that your version of Islam is the True Islam, because you are agnostic and in truth cannot be certain. the version of Islam that has been presented to me thus far is irrational becuase it deals in paradoxs, contradictions, and circular logic.

 

[Fatihah]

I realized this was a reaction to a previous poster, which is why I hope the words were the result of anger.


I cannot remember what Mestemia said, but I will go back and refresh my memory.

I will say this though: Sometimes it's hard to find diplomacy on forums. There are many times when I want to jump in and say something, defend someone, but I don't simply because I don't want to get pulled into the mess as it unravels. Perhaps this approach is wrong.

In the end, I don't like to see anyone ridiculed or belittled in any way.

Response: Quite understood. Not wanting to get pulled in to a back and forth of mess that's not productive, but rather an attack on another, is understandable. It's this very concept that has made the muslims here differ. This is why people like myself, 301ouncer, and other muslims are very much criticized and slandered, while other muslims are not. For there are muslims here who admittedly will walk away from confrontation concerning islam, and feel it is the best way to represent islam, while myself and other muslims never walk away, and feel that staying and combating such confrontation is better. So naturally, those who engage in the confrontation are hated by some non-muslims. So now muslims are at each other on who's method is better. It's honestly ridiculous. But some non-muslims love it when this happens between muslims, because they feel better when some muslims go against the muslims they dislike.

So I understand not getting involved, because of the negative backlash. But what makes me keep my cool, is that over the thousands of posts I've created, when someone suggests that I'm the cause of hatred, particular to islam, I ask them, out of those post, "There's the statement, where's the proof", and at no time could muslim or non-muslim produce a hatred post of mine. And I know, that insha' Allah, (God willing), that fact will be widely recognized, making my job much easier, and islam to shine much brighter.

 

[.lava]

Response: Quite understood. Not wanting to get pulled in to a back and forth of mess that's not productive, but rather an attack on another, is understandable. It's this very concept that has made the muslims here differ. This is why people like myself, 301ouncer, and other muslims are very much criticized and slandered, while other muslims are not. For there are muslims here who admittedly will walk away from confrontation concerning islam, and feel it is the best way to represent islam, while myself and other muslims never walk away, and feel that staying and combating such confrontation is better. So naturally, those who engage in the confrontation are hated by some non-muslims. So now muslims are at each other on who's method is better. It's honestly ridiculous. But some non-muslims love it when this happens between muslims, because they feel better when some muslims go against the muslims they dislike.

So I understand not getting involved, because of the negative backlash. But what makes me keep my cool, is that over the thousands of posts I've created, when someone suggests that I'm the cause of hatred, particular to islam, I ask them, out of those post, "There's the statement, where's the proof", and at no time could muslim or non-muslim produce a hatred post of mine. And I know, that insha' Allah, (God willing), that fact will be widely recognized, making my job much easier, and islam to shine much brighter.

do you think you can measure how good Muslim you are by considering how much you're critized, slandered and insulted by non-Muslims?

.

 

[Fatihah]

I was speaking more in the context that Islam has yet to be defined clearly to me, being as it is supposed to be the truth and yet it has deviations. that is what i see as irrational, though circular logic is often employed to legitimize Islam, that is also irrational. a Muslim tried to define Islam as believe in One-sole God, and Muhaamud as his profit...etc etc, but on the details of what God's Will is...that is where most muslims and religions are sketchi. So you cannot claim that your version of Islam is the True Islam, because you are agnostic and in truth cannot be certain. the version of Islam that has been presented to me thus far is irrational becuase it deals in paradoxs, contradictions, and circular logic.

Response: You've called me agnostic a few times now without me ever claiming to be. I don't know why, but I am not agnostic. I am a muslim, and I do claim that islam is true.

 

[darkendless]

Response: You've called me agnostic a few times now without me ever claiming to be. I don't know why, but I am not agnostic. I am a muslim, and I do claim that islam is true.

Its one thing to claim its true, its another to be respectful and intillectual about the way in which you help others understand why you think its true.

 

[Fatihah]

do you think you can measure how good Muslim you are by considering how much you're critized, slandered and insulted by non-Muslims?

.

Response: Not at all. However, and I say in all humility, it is though a reflection of how good a muslim I am.

 

[Sahar]

I'm sorry, Fatihah, that I didn't speak up sooner.

Well, some observation here, no one of non Muslims spoke up against the post that caused this original mess maybe except you. Oh God, this speaks volumes about non Muslims. :sarcastic

I hate seeing certain members being made the center of a thread or negative discussion whether this person is Muslim or not. Imagine Anne if someone said "oh, the biggest mistake is to let Anne post in any thread" or to say "Anne speaks BS all the time" in a thread that Anne didn't even read or participate in.

 

[Fatihah]

Its one thing to claim its true, its another to be respectful and intillectual about the way in which you help others understand why you think its true.

Response: Agreed.

 

[Luminous]

Response: You've called me agnostic a few times now without me ever claiming to be. I don't know why, but I am not agnostic. I am a muslim, and I do claim that islam is true.

It is a basic principle of Illumination that everyone is born Agnostic and continues to be agnostic their whole lifes. certainty is absurd and impossible, so everyone is agnostic. whether they wish to see and claim that fact is up to them.

 

[Sahar]

Response: Not at all. However, and I say in all humility, it is though a reflection of how good a muslim I am.

"So do not claim yourselves to be pure; He is most knowing of who fears Him". Qur'an

 

[*Anne*]

I hate seeing certain members being made the center of a thread or negative discussion whether this person is Muslim or not. Imagine Anne if someone said "oh, the biggest mistake is to let Anne post in any thread" or to say "Anne speaks BS all the time" in a thread that Anne didn't even read or participate in.

*nods* I agree with you.

 

[Fatihah]

It is a basic principle of Illumination that everyone is born Agnostic and continues to be agnostic their whole lifes. certainty is absurd and impossible, so everyone is agnostic. whether they wish to see and claim that fact is up to them.

Response: Or rather, everyone is born a muslim. Whether they wish to see or claim that fact is up to them.

 

[Commoner]

I hate seeing certain members being made the center of a thread or negative discussion whether this person is Muslim or not. Imagine Anne if someone said "oh, the biggest mistake is to let Anne post in any thread" or to say "Anne speaks BS all the time" in a thread that Anne didn't even read or participate in.

Well...some people really make themselves the ceter of attention by the way they communicate and I do not think it's inappropriate to call them out on their shenanigans.

However, I was not aware that those members where not participating in this thread at the time they were mentioned...in fact, I think that's false. Am I mistaken?

 

[Luminous]

Response: Or rather, everyone is born a muslim. Whether they wish to see or claim that fact is up to them.

you cannot be born a muslim, since babies are not born with knowledge of men's religions, they are born unexposed and pure, they are born agnostic...animals are agnostic too. and true submission to the Will of God requires that you recognize that God's Will is done by God alone. never will your will be God's will, for never will you be like God. Like you said previously, being a muslim requires that you believe in a sole-god, and that muhammud was his prophet, etc etc. babies are agnostic. and only God is all knowing, for all you think you know, u really know nothing but only believe it to be so. thus, we are all agnostic, truthfully. If babies were born muslim, why would they...how could they... ever denounce the truth?
Agnosticism says that we cannot know for certain, but it says nothing about believe...Agnostics are free to chose their believes as to what is more likely.
the fact remains that absolute certainty is absurd and impossible...correct? If you do not believe you are all-knowing and infallable: you are agnostic.

 

[Fatihah]

"So do not claim yourselves to be pure; He is most knowing of who fears Him". Qur'an

Response: "But they have no knowledge thereof. They follow nothing but conjecture, and conjecture avails naught against truth". Qur'an.

 

[Fatihah]

you cannot be born a muslim, since babies are not born with knowledge of men's religions, they are born unexposed and pure, they are born agnostic...animals are agnostic too. and true submission to the Will of God requires that you recognize that God's Will is done by God alone. never will your will be God's will, for never will you be like God. Like you said previously, being a muslim requires that you believe in a sole-god, and that muhammud was his prophet, etc etc. babies are agnostic. and only God is all knowing, for all you think you know, u really know nothing but only believe it to be so. thus, we are all agnostic, truthfully. If babies were born muslim, why would they...how could they... ever denounce the truth?
Agnosticism says that we cannot know for certain, but it says nothing about believe...Agnostics are free to chose their believes as to what is more likely.
the fact remains that absolute certainty is absurd and impossible...correct? If you do not believe you are all-knowing and infallable: you are agnostic.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that the definition of one "born muslim" is one born with the knowledge of religious men.

 

[Commoner]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that babies are born with no knowledge.

Now, where did you get that from?

 

[Sahar]

Well...some people really make themselves the ceter of attention by the way they communicate and I do not think it's inappropriate to call them out on their shenanigans.

However, I was not aware that those members where not participating in this thread at the time they were mentioned...in fact, I think that's false. Am I mistaken?

We participate in threads, we criticize each other and sometimes harshly, we do this all the time, I have no problem with this. If you are in the middle of an argument and your counterpart make meaningless posts, I have no problem with calling his posts and arguments meaningless, illogical, etc. But I don't like it when we are in another complete new thread, and out of the blue I say "oh member X posts are BS, we shouldn't allow him to post in any thread" or to start a thread specifically about certain member and say "how to ignore the silly posts of member Y"...
In my mind, there is a difference.

 

[dust1n]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that babies are born with no knowledge.

This is coming from the guy who said:

Response: Or rather, everyone is born a muslim. Whether they wish to see or claim that fact is up to them.

Where is your proof for such an absurd claim?