What are you afraid of?

[Mock Turtle]

Well, you can't do all of this without beliefs:

Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

undsci.berkeley.edu

So I do the spiritual and God as a naturalist´, but I still do them. I just don't claim that it is objective, know the limits as it is subjective and accept that the spirituality of a reductive physicalist is to claim that minds are not real and I don't have one.

Well, as for God beliefs, the default position - show us the evidence.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, as for God beliefs, the default position - show us the evidence.

Or for that the universe is physical and nothing else - show us the evidence.
It works not just for God beliefs.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Or for that the universe is physical and nothing else - show us the evidence.
It works not just for God beliefs.

Well I have the evidence for this, as in .... this.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well I have the evidence for this, as in .... this.

Well, both God and physical can be done as too simple. Or they can be done as complex for a complex universe.
In a sense the universe is physical or from God, are neither true or false, but both too simple.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, both God and physical can be done as too simple. Or they can be done as complex for a complex universe.
In a sense the universe is physical or from God, are neither true or false, but both too simple.

I have a hard enough time in the physical universe without having to transverse any extra ones.

 

[ratiocinator]

Why do you feel such a strong urge for the need of evidence to believe anything?

That you couldn't even put this under a title without jumping to conclusions, speaks volumes. I'm not afraid, I just have a bit of self-respect and want to believe things that have a good chance of being true (or at least close to the truth).

 

[ratiocinator]

Or for that the universe is physical and nothing else - show us the evidence.

Who has made this claim?

 

[Windwalker]

Well, as for God beliefs, the default position - show us the evidence.

I've never known a little child that asks for evidence first. That only comes later in life when we develop either a healthy skepticism, or an unhealthy cynicism.

 

[Windwalker]

I have a hard enough time in the physical universe without having to transverse any extra ones.

Actually, one might argue that it's only hard because we don't take advantage of those extra ones.

 

[Windwalker]

Who has made this claim?

Physicalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RestlessSoul]

I've never known a little child that asks for evidence first. That only comes later in life when we develop either a healthy skepticism, or an unhealthy cynicism.

Not to mention a monstrous ego which will resist all threats to it’s hegemony over the will

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Who has made this claim?

Well, we have at least one physicalist here.
And at least one poster who claims to have evidence of all beliefs he/she/they hold and is an atheist/religious non-believer.
And one, who claims to be able to prove that the universe is natural.
And one non-religious believer, who claims some people are not in reality.

So burden of proof is not unique to only religious claims.

 

[ratiocinator]

Physicalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, I'm aware that there is a philosophical point of view. I was referring more to this thread and the relevance of posting a rebuttal to something that I hadn't seen claimed. Our Mekkel has form for this sort of thing, riding his hobbyhorse into any old thread, relevance be damned.

 

[ratiocinator]

So burden of proof is not unique to only religious claims.

Who has said otherwise?

 

[Koldo]

Well, you can't do all of this without beliefs:

Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

undsci.berkeley.edu

So I do the spiritual and God as a naturalist´, but I still do them. I just don't claim that it is objective, know the limits as it is subjective and accept that the spirituality of a reductive physicalist is to claim that minds are not real and I don't have one.

But reductive physicalism doesn't say that minds are not real and that you don't have one.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But reductive physicalism doesn't say that minds are not real and that you don't have one.

The strongest version does that.
"
Reductionism
There are multiple versions of reductionism.[2] In the context of physicalism, the reductions referred to are of a "linguistic" nature, allowing discussions of, say, mental phenomena to be translated into discussions of physics. In one formulation, every concept is analysed in terms of a physical concept. ..."

Physicalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thus the mind is nothing but a physical concept. And you know how the physical works. It has to be observed objectively. Indeed your usage of real is an abstract mental concept and nothing but a physical state in your brain and there is nothing more to the world than observation of the physical.

 

[Koldo]

The strongest version does that.
"
Reductionism
There are multiple versions of reductionism.[2] In the context of physicalism, the reductions referred to are of a "linguistic" nature, allowing discussions of, say, mental phenomena to be translated into discussions of physics. In one formulation, every concept is analysed in terms of a physical concept. ..."

Physicalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thus the mind is nothing but a physical concept. And you know how the physical works. It has to be observed objectively. Indeed your usage of real is an abstract mental concept and nothing but a physical state in your brain and there is nothing more to the world than observation of the physical.

Let me point out that reducing the mind to the physical (or physical concepts) does not mean that it is not real.

 

[HonestJoe]

Why do you feel such a strong urge for the need of evidence to believe anything?

Why do you feel such a strong urge for the need of evidence that people feel a strong urge for the need of evidence to believe anything?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Let me point out that reducing the mind to the physical (or physical concepts) does not mean that it is not real.

Real is not physical as it has no objective physical referent. You are doing believer stuff. But so am I. Go figure.

 

[Jimmy]

Why do you feel such a strong urge for the need of evidence that people feel a strong urge for the need of evidence to believe anything?

Cute