What are you afraid of?

[Kfox]

Why do you feel such a strong urge for the need of evidence to believe anything?

One thing I’ve discovered during my lifetime when it comes to truth vs false, is that the truth NEVER asks to be believed; ( that’s what liars do) The truth asks to be tested. The truth asks to be inspected, picked apart, analyzed, the truth asks to be verified. Because once you’ve done all of that and got all of that evidence, belief comes natural

 

[Jimmy]

One thing I’ve discovered during my lifetime when it comes to truth vs false, is that the truth NEVER asks to be believed; ( that’s what liars do) The truth asks to be tested. The truth asks to be inspected, picked apart, analyzed, the truth asks to be verified. Because once you’ve done all of that and got all of that evidence, belief comes natural

Alrighty

 

[Mock Turtle]

I look at religious indoctrination the same as cultural indoctrination, as religion is part of one's culture. Programming children with culture is just something that happens, and trying to separate religion from culture is really no so simple. It can't really be compartmentalized like that, as it is part of one's whole identity and worldview. It's not easy, if even possible to separate it that way, when it comes to childrearing. Do you believe it can?

Yes, I think that one can teach children to grow satisfactorily without having an imposed religion being one 'needed' part of education. Nothing wrong with teaching about all the various faiths, and no such, but I believe religions should not be part of school education (as a set belief) - not until older, and when they are able to assess what they are being taught. Of course one can't legislate for what is taught at home or as to any religious services or practices that they will often have from their parents, but education I believe should be more neutral as to such things. Given it all depends upon where one is born as to which religion one gets and such beliefs can be so divisive. What one does as an adult is fair enough, but often religious teaching of children is simply indoctrination.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That is of course the challenging question. Whichever one resonates with you the most at the time. But better something than nothing, ultimately speaking that is. Nothing can be the right choice as well, for a time.

Some of us just don't feel any such needs. And it's not as if I haven't looked into this. I just can't fit such things into my concept of the universe - apart from there being a creative force perhaps - given my and our (but not for many) ignorance as to such.

 

[syo]

Why do you feel such a strong urge for the need of evidence to believe anything?

Because they are surrounded by christians/modern abrahamics.

 

[Windwalker]

Yes, I think that one can teach children to grow satisfactorily without having an imposed religion being one 'needed' part of education. Nothing wrong with teaching about all the various faiths, and no such, but I believe religions should not be part of school education (as a set belief) - not until older, and when they are able to assess what they are being taught.

I think you are still seeing this from a much more modernistic, compartmentalized perspective where religious faith is separate from everything else, like it's a dollop of whip cream and a cherry garnishing a scoop of ice cream. You can have that ice cream without the cherry on top, or with it if it's your thing.

But the reality of it is for most cultures which are traditionalist, and not modernist in nature, is that the cherry is fused with the ice cream. It's not ice cream with a cherry on top. It's cherry ice cream. It's not separated. The ice cream is the culture, and in the traditionalist world, that culture is a religious culture, or cherry ice cream.

So any of the normal cultural indoctrination that all human beings who are part of a social world (as opposed to a wild child), will either include religion or exclude religion, or religion as an option. But it's all indoctrination, regardless if religion is included or not. In a traditionalist culture, children will be programmed with a religious perspective of reality as part of the culture they are raised in.

Not teaching your child about religion, is only an option for a modernist or beyond which are able to see religion as a garnish, rather than a flavor of ice cream itself. But all of it, is indoctrination or cultural programming, whether it includes religion or not.

Of course one can't legislate for what is taught at home or as to any religious services or practices that they will often have from their parents, but education I believe should be more neutral as to such things. Given it all depends upon where one is born as to which religion one gets and such beliefs can be so divisive. What one does as an adult is fair enough, but often religious teaching of children is simply indoctrination.

What I don't agree with here is to say that religious teaching of children is simply indoctrination. It is no more nor less indoctrination than programming children with any cultural values and worldview. All that is indoctrination as well. We can't single out religion as something different that way, especially when someone is part of a traditionalist society.

What the issue is really simply traditionalist views of religion as part of culture, versus modernist views of religion as a personal preference and option. The issue in our politics is really between these two camps, those that see religion as a cherry garnish, and those who see culture as cherry ice cream.

This is good opinion article I read this morning where you can see what I said in the things the person writing it was talking about in the split into our culture wars. What he doesn't touch on is how this is traditionalism versus modernity, in so many words: Opinion | ‘Christianity’s Got a Branding Problem’

 

[Mock Turtle]

I think you are still seeing this from a much more modernistic, compartmentalized perspective where religious faith is separate from everything else, like it's a dollop of whip cream and a cherry garnishing a scoop of ice cream. You can have that ice cream without the cherry on top, or with it if it's your thing.

But the reality of it is for most cultures which are traditionalist, and not modernist in nature, is that the cherry is fused with the ice cream. It's not ice cream with a cherry on top. It's cherry ice cream. It's not separated. The ice cream is the culture, and in the traditionalist world, that culture is a religious culture, or cherry ice cream.

So any of the normal cultural indoctrination that all human beings who are part of a social world (as opposed to a wild child), will either include religion or exclude religion, or religion as an option. But it's all indoctrination, regardless if religion is included or not. In a traditionalist culture, children will be programmed with a religious perspective of reality as part of the culture they are raised in.

Not teaching your child about religion, is only an option for a modernist or beyond which are able to see religion as a garnish, rather than a flavor of ice cream itself. But all of it, is indoctrination or cultural programming, whether it includes religion or not.


What I don't agree with here is to say that religious teaching of children is simply indoctrination. It is no more nor less indoctrination than programming children with any cultural values and worldview. All that is indoctrination as well. We can't single out religion as something different that way, especially when someone is part of a traditionalist society.

What the issue is really simply traditionalist views of religion as part of culture, versus modernist views of religion as a personal preference and option. The issue in our politics is really between these two camps, those that see religion as a cherry garnish, and those who see culture as cherry ice cream.

This is good opinion article I read this morning where you can see what I said in the things the person writing it was talking about in the split into our culture wars. What he doesn't touch on is how this is traditionalism versus modernity, in so many words: Opinion | ‘Christianity’s Got a Branding Problem’

Well I know the reality, as to only a few nations ever doing that which I would like to see, and it is just my personal belief as to what would enhance the future for all. I don't have any expectations that this will be implemented in any but the more liberal and less religious countries, but perhaps if it is done then others might see the value in it.

As to indoctrination, well what would one call such if there was little choice - which seems the default in so many countries. Call it culture if you want to see it as such but it is essentially indoctrination - given that the children don't know any better and usually have no choice as to such.

The article was not allowed here in the UK - unless paying.