What are your opinions on Anti-Theism?

[Willamena]

God on the other hand means ______ <--insert ignorance here.

<---Cosmos

(for the pantheist)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I should not be hearing this again from anybody at this point of life. It is very annoying

It may be annoying, but is it true or not? Your problems seem to be mostly with Abrahamic conceptions of deity. Fine. But what about polytheism, pantheism, henotheism and other categories of theism? What about worshiping the Sun or other aspects of Natures as Divine? What about the ugliness that exists in religions like Hinduism and Buddhism, where there are issues of sexism, homophobia, racism, sexual repression, etc.? I notice that you are ignoring the problems that exist within those religions like a typical ignorant Westerner who has rose-colored glasses when it comes to Eastern religions and cultures.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Where did you get the idea that humans are rational? Have you ever met one?

Oh I now this all to well. I understand why as humans we would need god for so long but I am very certain that is no longer the case.

Even as an anti-theists I believe in things and my belief is that theism can easily be cast away at this point of time.

Seriously, the idealization of rationality is a problem with anti-theism. I think that is just as harmful as the idealization of irrationality is for theists.

It is embarrassing for me to watch theists and anti-theists gloating and sneering at one another, filled with a false sense of superiority. I think Richard Dawkins and Pat Robertson are cut from the same cloth. Just a pair of bloated egos making irritating noises.

Oh this is so not the case. Rationality can only be declared until one supports their assertions by giving it meaning and relevancy. As a child I was never impressed with Christianity, it seemed unnecessary and pointless.

Reason is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

Much like genitals, reason is a VERY useful tool. It would surprise many people.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Pantheism is easily the most weakest, useless and most fallacious form of theism. It can refute it by saying "The cosmos is not god".

We already have a name for nature and what is around us and pantheism is nothing but a semantical game that seeks to make the universe more than what it can possibly be. When you make reference to the ordered, structured and almost esoteric manner of the universe you call it the Cosmos not god.

There is a difference between Cosmos and universe and I wish more people got it. Words games do not impress me int he slightest bit. Considering that you are a Daoist I would assume you have some level of understanding with this.

So you are just using a partisan definition of theism in order to dismiss concepts of theism. Who are to define what Divinity is or should be?

 

[Sha'irullah]

<---Cosmos

(for the pantheist)

*hugs* you are adorable . Fighting over a simplistic label like pantheism is pointless but I don't blame people for it


...*pinches your cheeks*

 

[Brinne]

I am being very consistent while I doubt your ability to rationalize matters of religions and gods. Buddhists also have the incident of the Myanmar attack on Muslims as well.
What about it?

You seem to be profoundly unwise on everything you are saying up to this point because an atheists is capable of being violent like anybody else. You are not only making no point you seem unable to grasp what I am even saying because none of it has any relevancy to do with religious people and violence.

If you removed theism from religion they would only be as violent as atheists. One less thing to fight over but it does not get rid of violence.

What I am still astonished by is why you brought it up when I not only did not mention it, my topic was about something else entirely.

What I'm saying is relevant, I'm addressing your constant bias towards eastern religions as well as the reason, based upon your earlier post about Islam and Christianity being 'violent religions' and even going as far to call Christianity a scourge (which still is mind boggling that you'd say such a thing), why you maintain your position.

So please, tell me why (preferably in a mature manner without calling me 'unwise' or some other insult like in the past) you maintain that theism is dangerous if I'm not getting it? That's something you never did for me in the past, when I asked you to clarify you didn't do so and instead called me a liar and refused to answer my question.

I'm asking kindly, why do you insist that theism is dangerous if I didn't sum it up properly earlier.

I should not be hearing this again from anybody at this point of life. It is very annoying

I apologize if I've struck a nerve however It's a legitimate question. As Saint Frankenstein pointed out, it deserves an answer if you're comfortable to give one.

Again, like I've said to you prior, don't take these arguments personally. I'm simply trying to understand your point of view and I apologize if I've somehow come off as harsh.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am unaware of any positive impact of anti-theism.

You haven't seen anything yet, Levite.

 

[Alceste]

To me, the major problem with anti-theism is that, in so far as it might seek the end of faith or religion, it is unlikely to succeed. Some kind of religiosity appears to be intrinsic to our species, rooted in our DNA, and thus -- without draconian measures -- the majority of people are likely to be religious in one way or another.

A better approach to religions than seeking an end to them might be to find ways to make all of them benign, for religions can be terrifyingly destructive, and some more so than others.

I agree with this, but with the caveat that as we criticize irrationality, we should keep in mind that it was reason that gave us the atomic bomb.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think one should be an "anti-theist" any more than one should be an "anti-atheist". Let the opinions speak for themselves, and then let people believe in what they decide they believe in without harassment and being overly judgmental.

Can you suggest me one way of opposing anti-atheism without being anti-theistic?

 

[Sha'irullah]

It may be annoying, but is it true or not? Your problems seem to be mostly with Abrahamic conceptions of deity. Fine.

I always tell people to "never speak to soon" yet they always do. My problem with theism is EVERYTHING, every form of theism.

Abrahamic religions I despise personally and rationally. The others I just don't care about or find them meaningful.
But when it comes to theism and the notion of a god I give no favors to any form of it. I treat Allah and Yahweh the same I do Krishna and Uke Mochi.

But what about polytheism, pantheism, henotheism and other categories of theism? What about worshiping the Sun or other aspects of Natures as Divine?

I now remember who you are again. I will till you for the last time. I do not care what form of theism it is, I am against it.

Also you are talking to a person who literally worships nature and kowtows to the atom. I find the cosmos very worshipful but I do not call it divine.

What about the ugliness that exists in religions like Hinduism and Buddhism, where there are issues of sexism, homophobia, racism, sexual repression, etc.? I notice that you are ignoring the problems that exist within those religions like a typical ignorant Westerner who has rose-colored glasses when it comes to Eastern religions and cultures.

I do not make eastern religions special and clam they are non violent. I merely assert that they can survive without god. That is it. I have made no other claim about them and I get a strong impression that somebody is not paying attention or is lacking a moral compass to tell he/she not to lie because this keeps getting mentioned.

I can rant on and on about the corruptions of Buddhism and the so called "reincarnations" of Siddhartha Gautama. The Hindu priests and their bribing and corruption annoy me to no end. Seeing yoga masters argue about whose yoga is spiritual and the other just fanciful exercise annoys me as well.

Lets not forget the Buddhist monks who got on planes and began living the high life and strictly breaking their own vows and purpose as bhikkus.

I could rant about this till I puke.

 

[Willamena]

Can you suggest me one way of opposing anti-atheism without being anti-theistic?

Saying that, "I don't think one should be an anti-atheist," opposes anti-atheism without being anti-theistic.

 

[Sunstone]

I agree with this, but with the caveat that as we criticize irrationality, we should keep in mind that it was reason that gave us the atomic bomb.

Looked at one way, yes. Looked at another, no.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I always tell people to "never speak to soon" yet they always do. My problem with theism is EVERYTHING, every form of theism.

Abrahamic religions I despise personally and rationally. The others I just don't care about or find them meaningful.
But when it comes to theism and the notion of a god I give no favors to any form of it. I treat Allah and Yahweh the same I do Krishna and Uke Mochi.

I now remember who you are again. I will till you for the last time. I do not care what form of theism it is, I am against it.

Also you are talking to a person who literally worships nature and kowtows to the atom. I find the cosmos very worshipful but I do not call it divine.

I do not make eastern religions special and clam they are non violent. I merely assert that they can survive without god. That is it. I have made no other claim about them and I get a strong impression that somebody is not paying attention or is lacking a moral compass to tell he/she not to lie because this keeps getting mentioned.

I can rant on and on about the corruptions of Buddhism and the so called "reincarnations" of Siddhartha Gautama. The Hindu priests and their bribing and corruption annoy me to no end. Seeing yoga masters argue about whose yoga is spiritual and the other just fanciful exercise annoys me as well.

Lets not forget the Buddhist monks who got on planes and began living the high life and strictly breaking their own vows and purpose as bhikkus.

I could rant about this till I puke.

No one here is lying. Stop with the insults. It just makes you come off like a bratty little troll who is throwing a temper tantrum. You started this thread, after all.

Now, what are your reasons for opposing theism as a whole? Why do you oppose, for example someone worshiping the Sun, or the Cosmos, or a Love Goddess like Inanna or Aphrodite, or a Nature God like Pan, or a vengeful, warlike, genocidal, sexist deity like certain Abrahamics worship in equal measure? Why are you throwing them all in together?

 

[Sha'irullah]

What I'm saying is relevant, I'm addressing your constant bias towards eastern religions as well as the reason, based upon your earlier post about Islam and Christianity being 'violent religions' and even going as far to call Christianity a scourge (which still is mind boggling that you'd say such a thing), why you maintain your position.

Nope, any religion can be violent. I keep informing people of this far too many times. I only treat Eastern religions differently because they can survive with theism and that is it. I have made no claims of them being non violent and have only professed the opposite.

So please, tell me why (preferably in a mature manner without calling me 'unwise' or some other insult like in the past) you maintain that theism is dangerous if I'm not getting it? That's something you never did for me in the past, when I asked you to clarify you didn't do so and instead called me a liar and refused to answer my question.

I do not recall this ever happening and please point out the post. If I did do this I apologize but if you can't point out the post then I will assume you are just lying and trying to protect your religion from the scourge known as me.

I'm asking kindly, why do you insist that theism is dangerous if I didn't sum it up properly earlier.


I apologize if I've struck a nerve however It's a legitimate question. As Saint Frankenstein pointed out, it deserves an answer if you're comfortable to give one.

Again, like I've said to you prior, don't take these arguments personally. I'm simply trying to understand your point of view and I apologize if I've somehow come off as harsh.

I have taken none of these arguments personally, if you feel insulted I will not apologize because any such possible word you find insulting will only be used int he strictest sense of the word itself. Some "worthless" is "without worth" and "unwise" is "without wisdom". Please stop feeling insulted by words because words have never insulted me at all although intentions have such as lying.
I despise lying strongly by the way. It is my pet peeve and something I notice becomes more common amongst the religious

Back to the topic:
I find theism to be dangerous for what it is, a delusion. Many delusions are beneficial such as hope, peace or happiness but theism is a sword that points in both directions and has no purpose. Instead of praying to god for a better future we could be making one. Instead of hoping and wishing for god to answer our prayers we could be fulfilling it ourselves.
Theism does many things such as giving leaders support to kill and commit horrible actions. It motivates the Muslims and the American conservatives to kill each other. It motivates these same groups to oppress women and make their god an entity of evil.
This same conception of a god motivates people to be supposedly "moral" yet only serves as a way for people to deny their humanity. This morality they speak of is bankrupt of itself and paradoxical. It clouds people's minds on the basis of their own actions and makes it relevant to a nonexistent entity who serves as a third party issuing rules.
There is nothing redeeming about theism since it only serves as obfuscation of nature, reality and human goodness.

It allows priests to be pedophiles and live a life hoping and wishes they will enter a better place.
It permits people to do the most horrible actions to think they are doing the work of god.
It permits children to be killed, women raped and the world we live to be destroyed.
Theism deludes people of their human nature and human will and gives false hope to weak people and great hope to those without minds or wills.
I oppose theism for opposition to reason in areas like science where true progress is made.
I oppose theism for opposition to philosophy where great thoughts are made.
I oppose theism for what it is and always will be which is a plague like cognitive pathogen.

No matter what god you associate with theism it becomes pointless because that same good is easily contributed to something that does not harm nearly the amount of lives that theism has.

If you despise humanity enough all you need is a god and a religion and there you go.

 

[Alceste]

See this is a major quirk of mine. I admit many of us anti-theists think that supernaturalism has no further purpose but it does.
I LOVE sword and sorcery films and highly enjoy elements like magic, mythology, gods and monsters in movies. I despise these rom-coms, stupid cop films and horrible spy flicks. I can watch a Hellenic mythological film all day long because of the mythical elements.
Fascinates me to no end.



Pantheism is easily the most weakest, useless and most fallacious form of theism. It can refute it by saying "The cosmos is not god".

We already have a name for nature and what is around us and pantheism is nothing but a semantical game that seeks to make the universe more than what it can possibly be. When you make reference to the ordered, structured and almost esoteric manner of the universe you call it the Cosmos not god.

There is a difference between Cosmos and universe and I wish more people got it. Words games do not impress me int he slightest bit. Considering that you are a Daoist I would assume you have some level of understanding with this.

If you think "no it isn't" is a bullet proof rebuttal of the belief that the universe itself is sentient, your arguments need work.

Yes, I am a language skeptic. First and foremost, the sense that there is something out there looking back at you is experienced. Many problems arise when it is described, since words are so clumsy.

Anti-theists attack the descriptions, but fail to acknowledge the experience itself is authentic. And you think you aren't impressed by word games?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Back to the topic:
I find theism to be dangerous for what it is, a delusion. Many delusions are beneficial such as hope, peace or happiness but theism is a sword that points in both directions and has no purpose. Instead of praying to god for a better future we could be making one. Instead of hoping and wishing for god to answer our prayers we could be fulfilling it ourselves.
Theism does many things such as giving leaders support to kill and commit horrible actions. It motivates the Muslims and the American conservatives to kill each other. It motivates these same groups to oppress women and make their god an entity of evil.
This same conception of a god motivates people to be supposedly "moral" yet only serves as a way for people to deny their humanity. This morality they speak of is bankrupt of itself and paradoxical. It clouds people's minds on the basis of their own actions and makes it relevant to a nonexistent entity who serves as a third party issuing rules.
There is nothing redeeming about theism since it only serves as obfuscation of nature, reality and human goodness.

It allows priests to be pedophiles and live a life hoping and wishes they will enter a better place.
It permits people to do the most horrible actions to think they are doing the work of god.
It permits children to be killed, women raped and the world we live to be destroyed.
Theism deludes people of their human nature and human will and gives false hope to weak people and great hope to those without minds or wills.
I oppose theism for opposition to reason in areas like science where true progress is made.
I oppose theism for opposition to philosophy where great thoughts are made.
I oppose theism for what it is and always will be which is a plague like cognitive pathogen.

No matter what god you associate with theism it becomes pointless because that same good is easily contributed to something that does not harm nearly the amount of lives that theism has.

If you despise humanity enough all you need is a god and a religion and there you go.

Strawman and generalizations.

 

[Thruve]

/popcorn
*munch munch munch

 

[Alceste]

Looked at one way, yes. Looked at another, no.

Can you elaborate on this for me?

 

[Sha'irullah]

No one here is lying. Stop with the insults. It just makes you come off like a bratty little troll who is throwing a temper tantrum. You started this thread, after all.

I think your issue is emotional instability. I personally admit to lacking any emotional merit since I am rather carefree while oddly heartless.

Seriously though stop worrying about me calling people liars because a liar is a liar. If you are not lying then engage in my conversations. You should know by now I will easily cut a person off for lying since it is pointless to argue with such people.

I cannot tell if you are lying, trolling or just ignorant half the time. So stop confusing me so we can have a nice conversation because there are too many theists and whack jobs making posts enough as it is.

You feel me bro?

By the way I am a literalist utilitarian. Take what I say very literally and shave with Occam's Razor

Now, what are your reasons for opposing theism as a whole? Why do you oppose, for example someone worshiping the Sun, or the Cosmos, or a Love Goddess like Inanna or Aphrodite, or a Nature God like Pan, or a vengeful, warlike, genocidal, sexist deity like certain Abrahamics worship in equal measure? Why are you throwing them all in together?

I am a sun worshiper, I thought I told you this earlier. Also Inanna is a very beautiful goddess story and very underrated if you ask me.

I only oppose the belief in a god not worshiping an abstract ideal of one. I have no issue worshiping Inanna for example but I know she does not exist. It is like seeing adults sing songs to Santa. Do you think they think he exists?

This is what I meant be "Shave with Occam's Razor". You are adding these sort of bizarre intentions with what I say you appear to be lying.

I am an anti-theists meaning I oppose the belief in gods. Do not add anything else that concept. I do not oppose the worship of gods, or anything like that.
Take my words as literal as possible

 

[Sha'irullah]

/popcorn
*munch munch munch

You gonna share that bro?