What are your opinions on Anti-Theism?

[LuisDantas]

Saying that, "I don't think one should be an anti-atheist," opposes anti-atheism without being anti-theistic.

I guess it comes down to deciding whether to point out the causes or keeping silent about them.

 

[Sha'irullah]

If you think "no it isn't" is a bullet proof rebuttal of the belief that the universe itself is sentient, your arguments need work.

Yes, I am a language skeptic. First and foremost, the sense that there is something out there looking back at you is experienced. Many problems arise when it is described, since words are so clumsy.

Anti-theists attack the descriptions, but fail to acknowledge the experience itself is authentic. And you think you aren't impressed by word games?

What you said made no sense and seems like a snappy last remark to save yourself from me. Seriously I am not that imposing and I make very simplistic statements.

I can easily refute you by saying that you have not shaved your legs(I am being funny not insulting ) with Ockham's Razor. You are just tacking the word god onto anything.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think your issue is emotional instability. I personally admit to lacking any emotional merit since I am rather carefree while oddly heartless.

Seriously though stop worrying about me calling people liars because a liar is a liar. If you are not lying then engage in my conversations. You should know by now I will easily cut a person off for lying since it is pointless to argue with such people.

I cannot tell if you are lying, trolling or just ignorant half the time. So stop confusing me so we can have a nice conversation because there are too many theists and whack jobs making posts enough as it is.

You feel me bro?

By the way I am a literalist utilitarian. Take what I say very literally and shave with Occam's Razor

It's impossible to have a nice conversation with someone who is throwing ad hominems around. Stop insulting people and stop accusing people of being liars, especially when you can't even keep straight who is who.

I am a sun worshiper, I thought I told you this earlier. Also Inanna is a very beautiful goddess story and very underrated if you ask me.

I only oppose the belief in a god not worshiping an abstract ideal of one. I have no issue worshiping Inanna for example but I know she does not exist. It is like seeing adults sing songs to Santa. Do you think they think he exists?

This is what I meant be "Shave with Occam's Razor". You are adding these sort of bizarre intentions with what I say you appear to be lying.

I am an anti-theists meaning I oppose the belief in gods. Do not add anything else that concept. I do not oppose the worship of gods, or anything like that.
Take my words as literal as possible

Why does it matter if the people believes that the deity is real on some level? They may be viewed as archetypes or energies. I'm not seeing what your issue is.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Strawman and generalizations.

Kool-Aid and Specifications.
Seriously try telling me how theism is beneficial.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Kool-Aid and Specifications.
Seriously try telling me how theism is beneficial.

In general, it brings meaning, peace and happiness to people's lives, and is inspiring to them.

 

[Sha'irullah]

It's impossible to have a nice conversation with someone who is throwing ad hominems around. Stop insulting people and stop accusing people of being liars, especially when you can't even keep straight who is who.

I am not throwing ad hominems. I am merely pointing out the pointlessness of arguing with certain people. No philosopher would debate a brick wall nor will I.

Why does it matter if the people believes that the deity is real on some level? They may be viewed as archetypes or energies. I'm not seeing what your issue is.

Archetypes! Now we are getting some where although the whole energy thing is woo'ish nonsense.
I have no issue with archetypes. I actually finished a painting of Shiva yesterday because I really love the character.
I have a Baal art piece coming up as well I may add.

You seriously refuse to acknowledge the fact I only have an issue with belief in gods. Again stop adding things to my statements

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am not throwing ad hominems. I am merely pointing out the pointlessness of arguing with certain people. No philosopher would debate a brick wall nor will I.



Archetypes! Now we are getting some where although the whole energy thing is woo'ish nonsense.
I have no issue with archetypes. I actually finished a painting of Shiva yesterday because I really love the character.
I have a Baal art piece coming up as well I may add.

You seriously refuse to acknowledge the fact I only have an issue with belief in gods. Again stop adding things to my statements

You still haven't answered what exactly is the big deal with seeing the deities as real in some sense. You'll worship a deity but won't see them as real? What kind of sense does that make? Sounds like you're lying to yourself.

 

[Alceste]

What you said made no sense and seems like a snappy last remark to save yourself from me. Seriously I am not that imposing and I make very simplistic statements.

I can easily refute you by saying that you have not shaved your legs(I am being funny not insulting ) with Ockham's Razor. You are just tacking the word god onto anything.

Lol! Whenever would you get the idea that I find your arguments threatening? My post makes sense. You need to read it again while you're not distracted by your feelings of being clever. I'm genuinely interested in a thoughtful response to it.

 

[Sha'irullah]

In general, it brings meaning, peace and happiness to people's lives, and is inspiring to them.

Yes, that same meaning brought Omar happiness and inspired his life.

I can easily remove theism from Newton's mind and give him the inspiration to see the world as it is. I am post-theistic again meaning I find the notion of theism "outdated" or having "no more use".
These emotional arguments you are making do nothing. Theism does not promote reason it just promotes a belief in something people cannot prove exists. I can remove theism from every case you have made and insert pure reason, knowledge or wonder.

So many better things than theism. Theism is Windows XP and Atheism is Linux

 

[Sha'irullah]

Lol! Whenever would you get the idea that I find your arguments threatening? I've rarely seen weaker. My post makes sense. You need to read it again while you're not distracted by your feelings of being clever.

I am not clever, fairly slow I may add. Snappy arguments again have no merit.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, that same meaning brought Omar happiness and inspired his life.

I don't know who you're talking about.

I can easily remove theism from Newton's mind and give him the inspiration to see the world as it is. I am post-theistic again meaning I find the notion of theism "outdated" or having "no more use".
These emotional arguments you are making do nothing. Theism does not promote reason it just promotes a belief in something people cannot prove exists. I can remove theism from every case you have made and insert pure reason, knowledge or wonder.

So many better things than theism. Theism is Windows XP and Atheism is Linux

That is your subjective opinion and does not override the experiences and viewpoints of others. It is not an argument. Why should anyone else care about what you think on the subject?

 

[Sha'irullah]

You still haven't answered what exactly is the big deal with seeing the deities as real in some sense. You'll worship a deity but won't see them as real? What kind of sense does that make? Sounds like you're lying to yourself.

Prove to me that Inanna is real or Zeus. Why would you tell a person that vengeful skydaddy is real and he will burn and torture you for all of eternity if you do not love him.
Why would you promote the reality of any such supernatural entity when it does not even have a weak case for it's existence?

if you do this then EVERYTHING is real. Unicorns are real, goblins, fairies you name it. We are supposed to live in an informed society not a fictional one.

Also we all lie to ourselves. I lie to myself every time I think life will be better.

Also worshiping a deity who is not real is no different than singing songs to Santa.

 

[Alceste]

I am not clever, fairly slow I may add. Snappy arguments again have no merit.

So you are tipping your king? You have no reasoned rebuttal to the point I made? I know that's the situation, but it would delight me to hear you admit it.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't know who you're talking about.

Mohammed Omar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This O.G right here! He ain't from LA I would mention

That is your subjective opinion and does not override the experiences and viewpoints of others. It is not an argument. Why should anyone else care about what you think on the subject?

It is not subjective because such things exist and work. They are not experiences or something to experience. You do not experience reason or knowledge.

Do you philosophize bro?


...Meow

 

[Brinne]

Nope, any religion can be violent. I keep informing people of this far too many times. I only treat Eastern religions differently because they can survive with theism and that is it. I have made no claims of them being non violent and have only professed the opposite.



I do not recall this ever happening and please point out the post. If I did do this I apologize but if you can't point out the post then I will assume you are just lying and trying to protect your religion from the scourge known as me.

"On multiple occasions I have called Christianity a scourge or I have compared it to a cognitive disease. I could be getting my blog posting mixed with my forum posting though so don't take my word for it. I try being nicer on the forums by the way obviously.

Just because I am a philosophical animist and kowtow to stars, planets and the atom does not make me "spiritual", "theistic" or "religious" as I am entirely against all 3 things(religion not so much). "

You literally said it in this thread. Unless you were talking about the post of calling me a liar which is from an earlier thread a few weeks ago. I can dig it up if you really want me to.

I have taken none of these arguments personally, if you feel insulted I will not apologize because any such possible word you find insulting will only be used int he strictest sense of the word itself. Some "worthless" is "without worth" and "unwise" is "without wisdom". Please stop feeling insulted by words because words have never insulted me at all although intentions have such as lying.
I despise lying strongly by the way. It is my pet peeve and something I notice becomes more common amongst the religious

Might have been me over analyzing but I thought you were holding a personal grudge based upon earlier arguments. I apologize if this is not the case, just how I perceived it.

I'd like some support for that last claim. If you can show that it is more 'common amongst the religious' I'll believe you.

Back to the topic:
I find theism to be dangerous for what it is, a delusion. Many delusions are beneficial such as hope, peace or happiness but theism is a sword that points in both directions and has no purpose. Instead of praying to god for a better future we could be making one. Instead of hoping and wishing for god to answer our prayers we could be fulfilling it ourselves.

The majority of people don't just pray and forget, a lot of people will go out and do something to make their dreams come true (generally this applies when people pray for good grades, a higher wage, ect. They go out and work at it) However, I can say that a lot of people unfortunately pray and forget when it comes to certain wishes/prayers (like for example, prayer for people who are caught up in a disaster or prayer for the end of war) then again, in those situations we can't always do things to help.

Some religions do stress sincerity in prayer and action you do realize. A lot of humanitarian aid organizations are linked to religious organizations and a lot of religions have good works and charity ingrained into their doctrine.

Theism does many things such as giving leaders support to kill and commit horrible actions. It motivates the Muslims and the American conservatives to kill each other. It motivates these same groups to oppress women and make their god an entity of evil.

Politics, race, and wealth do the same thing. People have been motivated to kill in the name of a political ideology yet does that make all political ideologies or ideologies from that family bad?

You're forgetting that the same notion of god have moved people to do great things.

This same conception of a god motivates people to be supposedly "moral" yet only serves as a way for people to deny their humanity. This morality they speak of is bankrupt of itself and paradoxical. It clouds people's minds on the basis of their own actions and makes it relevant to a nonexistent entity who serves as a third party issuing rules.
There is nothing redeeming about theism since it only serves as obfuscation of nature, reality and human goodness.

I disagree. I know many people who are theists and in touch with reality, many people question their beliefs and search for answers. However, I'll admit there are some that are blinded by their faith but that doesn't count for all people.

It allows priests to be pedophiles and live a life hoping and wishes they will enter a better place.

What allows priests to be pedophiles is a mental disorder not religion.

It permits people to do the most horrible actions to think they are doing the work of god.

Again, the same thing could be said for political groups. Violent revolutionary communist claim to be doing the work of the proletariat. Political terrorists claim to be freedom fighters.

Generally these horrible actions are backed by corrupted individuals who control a mass of uneducated people.

It permits children to be killed, women raped and the world we live to be destroyed.

Again, corrupt individuals, uneducated masses, and mental disorders allows this to happen.

You've also failed to point out the positives of theism. There are negatives, I'll give you that but if there wasn't theism to justify violence they'd use something else. Politics, race, ect.

Theism deludes people of their human nature and human will and gives false hope to weak people and great hope to those without minds or wills.

I disagree. I have a mind and a will, I question, I seek answers, and I sure as hell don't consider my self a weak person. Yet I have faith. I don't understand how having faith in a deity makes you 'weak' by any notion of the word.

It'd be like me calling all atheists pessimistic for not believing in a god. It's ridiculous.

I oppose theism for opposition to reason in areas like science where true progress is made.
I oppose theism for opposition to philosophy where great thoughts are made.
I oppose theism for what it is and always will be which is a plague like cognitive pathogen.

Ridiculous over generalization. While there are organized religions that do the things you've mentioned it's not all of them. Instead of opposing theism why not oppose violence, corruption, and greed, the roots of the problem?

It won't accomplish anything by opposing such a broad group.

No matter what god you associate with theism it becomes pointless because that same good is easily contributed to something that does not harm nearly the amount of lives that theism has.

If you despise humanity enough all you need is a god and a religion and there you go.

My conclusion is that you seem very dug into your beliefs. While you do have some reasons for it I believe you're over generalizing everything which is a shame.

I've seen your posts on here and your blog and the amount of hatred for theism is actually kind of alarming. I'm not saying this because I'm a theist, I'm saying that because any amount of that hatred is quite alarming. However, I digress that's irrelevant you've provided me with your beliefs and a justification as I've asked.

Thank you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Prove to me that Inanna is real or Zeus. Why would you tell a person that vengeful skydaddy is real and he will burn and torture you for all of eternity if you do not love him.
Why would you promote the reality of any such supernatural entity when it does not even have a weak case for it's existence?

Why don't you "prove" to me that love is real or that any of the interior experiences we have are real? After all, you can't touch, see, hear, taste or smell thoughts and feelings. They can't be placed under microscopes.

There may actually be a vengeful deity that would like to torture us, but I would ask the person why they feel they should worship such a deity and why they feel others should follow suit.

if you do this then EVERYTHING is real. Unicorns are real, goblins, fairies you name it. We are supposed to live in an informed society not a fictional one.

Define "real" and define "informed".

Also we all lie to ourselves. I lie to myself every time I think life will be better.

Go get therapy.

Also worshiping a deity who is not real is no different than singing songs to Santa.

How do you know they're not real?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is not subjective because such things exist and work. They are not experiences or something to experience. You do not experience reason or knowledge.

Do you philosophize bro?

I'm saying that what you wrote is your subjective opinion.

 

[Sha'irullah]

"On multiple occasions I have called Christianity a scourge or I have compared it to a cognitive disease. I could be getting my blog posting mixed with my forum posting though so don't take my word for it. I try being nicer on the forums by the way obviously.

Just because I am a philosophical animist and kowtow to stars, planets and the atom does not make me "spiritual", "theistic" or "religious" as I am entirely against all 3 things(religion not so much). "

You literally said it in this thread. Unless you were talking about the post of calling me a liar which is from an earlier thread a few weeks ago. I can dig it up if you really want me to.

I am referring to the post where I declare Eastern religions non violent. I know you will not find such things though.

Might have been me over analyzing but I thought you were holding a personal grudge based upon earlier arguments. I apologize if this is not the case, just how I perceived it.

It is both. I hold a grudge towards certain religions but a grudge is not my basis for disliking them. My grudge is the reason I began to dislike them and it furthered from there.

I'd like some support for that last claim. If you can show that it is more 'common amongst the religious' I'll believe you.

I cannot give any sort of statistical analysis for this claim. I just take general notice that religious people twist and manipulate anything for their own good. Christians and Muslims are more noticeable for this. Shintos.....not so much and that is primarily because they aren't vocal.

The majority of people don't just pray and forget, a lot of people will go out and do something to make their dreams come true (generally this applies when people pray for good grades, a higher wage, ect. They go out and work at it) However, I can say that a lot of people unfortunately pray and forget when it comes to certain wishes/prayers (like for example, prayer for people who are caught up in a disaster or prayer for the end of war) then again, in those situations we can't always do things to help.

Then what is the purpose of prayer besides mental masturbation?
The majority of people who pray by the way do not work at it. My neighborhood is a sad example of this. This is why always hear people asking why their prayers are not unanswered. Go to any Islamic forum or blog and see the dua section where the most common complaint is prayers.

Some religions do stress sincerity in prayer and action you do realize. A lot of humanitarian aid organizations are linked to religious organizations and a lot of religions have good works and charity ingrained into their doctrine.

This is a cop out. Prayer again serves no purpose.

Politics, race, and wealth do the same thing. People have been motivated to kill in the name of a political ideology yet does that make all political ideologies or ideologies from that family bad?

No because a political ideology is not focusing on a fictional entity. Politics are the opposite of theism as it serves to directly help mankind.

You're forgetting that the same notion of god have moved people to do great things.

No I am not, I am post-theistic about god meaning I find it "no longer useful". I could easily swap out god and replace it with curiosity or satisfaction. People could do the same things with or without god although god has a LOT of baggage.

I disagree. I know many people who are theists and in touch with reality, many people question their beliefs and search for answers. However, I'll admit there are some that are blinded by their faith but that doesn't count for all people.

I doubt this.

What allows priests to be pedophiles is a mental disorder not religion.

No it is a religion that hides it.

Again, the same thing could be said for political groups. Violent revolutionary communist claim to be doing the work of the proletariat. Political terrorists claim to be freedom fighters.

Generally these horrible actions are backed by corrupted individuals who control a mass of uneducated people.

And? None of these things fight over a fictional cause, they fight because they want their side to establish happiness.

Theists fight to just see who has the bigger shlong. Both fight yet only 1 has no purpose for fighting.

If a political ideology becomes negative then it to should be regarded as evil and counter productive this is why we oppose communism. Political ideologies have purpose and meaning but theism does not.

If all of theism is in the same boat then it must go. Politics are not like this though.

Again, corrupt individuals, uneducated masses, and mental disorders allows this to happen.

they should be regarded as the same then.

You've also failed to point out the positives of theism. There are negatives, I'll give you that but if there wasn't theism to justify violence they'd use something else. Politics, race, ect.

The positives are easily replaceable.

I disagree. I have a mind and a will, I question, I seek answers, and I sure as hell don't consider my self a weak person. Yet I have faith. I don't understand how having faith in a deity makes you 'weak' by any notion of the word

.

Emotional clinging is weakness, trust me

It'd be like me calling all atheists pessimistic for not believing in a god. It's ridiculous.

Pessimism is believe it or not my world view.

Ridiculous over generalization. While there are organized religions that do the things you've mentioned it's not all of them. Instead of opposing theism why not oppose violence, corruption, and greed, the roots of the problem?

Because theism is no different.

It won't accomplish anything by opposing such a broad group.

It will allow many people to live in peace and get rid of 1 less dividing issue.

My conclusion is that you seem very dug into your beliefs. While you do have some reasons for it I believe you're over generalizing everything which is a shame.

You are supporting things on the basis of emotional attachments which is as shamish(making words up here ) as it gets.

I've seen your posts on here and your blog and the amount of hatred for theism is actually kind of alarming. I'm not saying this because I'm a theist, I'm saying that because any amount of that hatred is quite alarming. However, I digress that's irrelevant you've provided me with your beliefs and a justification as I've asked.

Thank you.

Hatred? I am not a hateful person though. I really wish people calling me hateful just hung out with me because anti-theism does not imply hatred at all.

 

[Brinne]

I am referring to the post where I declare Eastern religions non violent. I know you will not find such things though.

Ah alright, no no you cleared that up earlier. That was my fault for thinking you were implying something when you weren't. Simple miscommunication on my part, I'll admit to that being my bad.

It is both. I hold a grudge towards certain religions but a grudge is not my basis for disliking them. My grudge is the reason I began to dislike them and it furthered from there.

Holding grudges is unhealthy. I believe later in this post you were talking about emotional attachment, a grudge is similar. But I won't scold you for that, if you wish to hold a grudge so be it. As long as you don't act on that grudge in a way it would harm somebody. [/quote]

I cannot give any sort of statistical analysis for this claim. I just take general notice that religious people twist and manipulate anything for their own good. Christians and Muslims are more noticeable for this. Shintos.....not so much and that is primarily because they aren't vocal.

Understood, maybe the area you live in might be the reason for that claim? Some areas are full of more radical theists than others.

Then what is the purpose of prayer besides mental masturbation?
The majority of people who pray by the way do not work at it. My neighborhood is a sad example of this. This is why always hear people asking why their prayers are not unanswered. Go to any Islamic forum or blog and see the dua section where the most common complaint is prayers.

I find that my prayers are answered. Pray with sincerity and not just because you want something and you'll find it working much better.

Konko Daijin also said that sincerity and persistence in prayer is key. If you give up after praying once for things to get better than are you really being sincere? Sometimes divine blessings come in forms that we overlook or think because they're too mundane it cannot be the answer to our prayers. Then again this is just how I think.

This is a cop out. Prayer again serves no purpose.

I provided my explanation above. In addition it is comforting. There was a man who said people either pray or meditate or both. Some people aren't prayer people.

No because a political ideology is not focusing on a fictional entity. Politics are the opposite of theism as it serves to directly help mankind.

I believe there are some that'd disagree with the statement that politics serve to help mankind but that's beyond the point. But how do we know God/god(s) aren't real? Who's to say that we simply don't have the mental capacity to understand, see, or meet with this god?

Like David Bowie once said. "There's a starman waiting up there for us, he'd love to come and meet us but he thinks he'd blow our minds."

No I am not, I am post-theistic about god meaning I find it "no longer useful". I could easily swap out god and replace it with curiosity or satisfaction. People could do the same things with or without god although god has a LOT of baggage.

You may not find it useful but there are some of us who do. So why ruin it for the rest of us by opposing theism?

I doubt this.

OK. To be fair a lot of of our argument is based upon subjective observations and opinions so that's fair.

No it is a religion that hides it.

No what hides it is the religious organization which at times is not representative of the religion as a whole.

And? None of these things fight over a fictional cause, they fight because they want their side to establish happiness.

Theists fight to just see who has the bigger shlong. Both fight yet only 1 has no purpose for fighting.

You're missing the point. I'm saying that just because a certain idea can be connected to a bad event should we then considering everything that idea is associated with synonymous with that bad event? If that's the case then I could easily say Atheism is bad based upon the League of Militiant Atheists, the Cultural Revolution, Joseph Stalin, ect.

Of course, I realize those aren't representative of the whole. Just a small percentage.

If a political ideology becomes negative then it to should be regarded as evil and counter productive this is why we oppose communism. Political ideologies have purpose and meaning but theism does not.

What one man defines as evil and counter productive could be a utopia to another man. It's completely subjective.

I've mentioned the purpose of theism above, however if I've been unclear tell me and I'll clarify what I believe the purpose of it is.

If all of theism is in the same boat then it must go. Politics are not like this though.

Ah but all of theism isn't in the same boat. Like I said you over generalize, which is understandable. It's a human fault to do so.

they should be regarded as the same then.

No, they should not.

The positives are easily replaceable.

Not buying that.

Emotional clinging is weakness, trust me

Subjective opinion. Also, why should I trust you? I barely known you! (but you do like cats so...)

Pessimism is believe it or not my world view.

That explains a lot. I disagree severely with that world view but that's not the point of this thread.

Because theism is no different.

Riiiiiight.

It will allow many people to live in peace and get rid of 1 less dividing issue.

We can't know that for certain that the removal of theism will allow us to live in peace. Not to mention, the process of removing theism would lead to some extent of oppression which I don't view as peace.

Perhaps maybe you could come to accept that new religions/reformations of current religions will allow for a more peaceful world where kindness, caring, and charity are the pillars of our faith(s) or lack there of? That sounds like a nice world to me. Coexistence

You are supporting things on the basis of emotional attachments which is as shamish(making words up here ) as it gets.

I misread that as shamanish at first.

Are you not doing the same thing with your subjective claims based on emotions?

Hatred? I am not a hateful person though. I really wish people calling me hateful just hung out with me because anti-theism does not imply hatred at all.

That's just the kind of image you put out when you refer to a religion as a scourge tbh. I'm sure if we avoided discussion of theism and religion we'd be friends. You don't seem like a bad person we just happen to disagree. I like to think of all people as friends, even if they don't nessecarily think the same of me

 

[Sha'irullah]

Ah alright, no no you cleared that up earlier. That was my fault for thinking you were implying something when you weren't. Simple miscommunication on my part, I'll admit to that being my bad.


Holding grudges is unhealthy. I believe later in this post you were talking about emotional attachment, a grudge is similar. But I won't scold you for that, if you wish to hold a grudge so be it. As long as you don't act on that grudge in a way it would harm somebody.


Understood, maybe the area you live in might be the reason for that claim? Some areas are full of more radical theists than others.


I find that my prayers are answered. Pray with sincerity and not just because you want something and you'll find it working much better.

Konko Daijin also said that sincerity and persistence in prayer is key. If you give up after praying once for things to get better than are you really being sincere? Sometimes divine blessings come in forms that we overlook or think because they're too mundane it cannot be the answer to our prayers. Then again this is just how I think.


I provided my explanation above. In addition it is comforting. There was a man who said people either pray or meditate or both. Some people aren't prayer people.

I believe there are some that'd disagree with the statement that politics serve to help mankind but that's beyond the point. But how do we know God/god(s) aren't real? Who's to say that we simply don't have the mental capacity to understand, see, or meet with this god?

Like David Bowie once said. "There's a starman waiting up there for us, he'd love to come and meet us but he thinks he'd blow our minds."



You may not find it useful but there are some of us who do. So why ruin it for the rest of us by opposing theism?


OK. To be fair a lot of of our argument is based upon subjective observations and opinions so that's fair.


No what hides it is the religious organization which at times is not representative of the religion as a whole.


You're missing the point. I'm saying that just because a certain idea can be connected to a bad event should we then considering everything that idea is associated with synonymous with that bad event? If that's the case then I could easily say Atheism is bad based upon the League of Militiant Atheists, the Cultural Revolution, Joseph Stalin, ect.

Of course, I realize those aren't representative of the whole. Just a small percentage.


What one man defines as evil and counter productive could be a utopia to another man. It's completely subjective.

I've mentioned the purpose of theism above, however if I've been unclear tell me and I'll clarify what I believe the purpose of it is.

Ah but all of theism isn't in the same boat. Like I said you over generalize, which is understandable. It's a human fault to do so.


No, they should not.


Not buying that.


Subjective opinion. Also, why should I trust you? I barely known you! (but you do like cats so...)


That explains a lot. I disagree severely with that world view but that's not the point of this thread.


Riiiiiight.


We can't know that for certain that the removal of theism will allow us to live in peace. Not to mention, the process of removing theism would lead to some extent of oppression which I don't view as peace.

Perhaps maybe you could come to accept that new religions/reformations of current religions will allow for a more peaceful world where kindness, caring, and charity are the pillars of our faith(s) or lack there of? That sounds like a nice world to me. Coexistence


I misread that as shamanish at first.

Are you not doing the same thing with your subjective claims based on emotions?


That's just the kind of image you put out when you refer to a religion as a scourge tbh. I'm sure if we avoided discussion of theism and religion we'd be friends. You don't seem like a bad person we just happen to disagree. I like to think of all people as friends, even if they don't nessecarily think the same of me

Sorry I am not answering this long posts. I am beat for today, I am stressed and not happy in the slightest bit.
*huggles*