What calculations makes you an atheist ?

[osgart]

Reality is NOT preferential!

Profit does not matter to existence.

Atheism is the sense that no God exists based on observing reality.

So it's the truth of the matter vs. the preferences one has.

 

[ajarntham]

PROFIT joining the belief of majority of people.

What exactly is the "profit" to you here? Psychological? Is that actually the reason you became a believer in a spherical earth? Because you wanted to join the majority? (If there are any flat-earthers reading this thread, they'll be sure to make hay out of this confession that people only become spherical-earth believers out of a desire to conform.)

And back when the majority of people believed in a flat earth, what do you think motivated some to conclude the earth was spherical? One could repeat that question for any conclusion which was once minority opinion: that the earth revolved around the sun, that diseases were caused by micro-organisms, that slavery was evil... Were all the people who concluded that the majority was incorrect acting perversely by rejecting profit?

 

[ajarntham]

Many people here are also receiving frubals PROFIT

Some are PROFITING by getting many likes on their posts.

Frubals,
Likes,
Winner,
Optimistic,
Etc.

Many kinds of PROFITS here.

"People come to the conclusions they do, because those conclusions seem correct to them; afterwards, they sometimes get psychological rewards, in the form of approval from others, for expressing those conclusions"

is not at all the same as,

"People come to the conclusions they do, because they have calculated the profit that will come to them for reaching those conclusions."

This would be true even if it were always the case that people get such rewards for expressing such beliefs, but that is pretty clearly false. Many, many people have broken with the beliefs of their families and have gotten far more pain than pleasure from that. They broke, they often tell us, because they simply couldn't continue to believe what appeared false to them.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Murderer becomes a Murderer after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Murderer.
Rapist becomes a Rapist after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Rapist.
Robber becomes a Robber after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Robber.
Doctor becomes a Doctor after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Doctor.
Politician becomes a Politician after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Politician.
Scientist becomes a Scientist after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Scientist.
Donor becomes a Donor after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Donor.

That's quite naive of you. Most people imo simply naturally gravitate on their path towards what they will end up being without carefull a priori consideration of the pro's and con's of what they are doing.

Atheist becomes an Atheist after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being an Atheist.

No. An atheist is what you are by default if you don't buy into the claims of religions.
I never "decided" to be an atheist. It's just what I am by virtue of not finding theistic claims believable, that's all.

Theist becomes a Theist after CALCULATING the Profit & Loss of being a Theist.

Actually, the vast majority of theists are theists only because they were brought up that way. Most people never made a conscious decision based on research that they'll follow religion X. Instead, they were just indoctrinated into it by their parents and environment.

What makes one's so ?
Ans: CALCULATIONS.

No.

Profit or Loss ?
Ans: PROFIT. Because there's nobody who want Loss.

IF there's something wrong with any of the character (For example: Murderer), its his/her MISCALCULATION which is showing some kind of PROFIT of being so.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Taking all the above written into consideration, I want to ask you:

What CALCULATIONS makes you an ATHEIST ?

It's quite understood that there might be some kind of PROFIT that you have seen in becoming an atheist. What is that ? I want to learn from you.

Again, atheism is what you default to when you don't find theistic claims believable.

If you ask me in hindsight what the pro's are of being atheist... well, I can sleep in on sundays.
I also don't need to defend undefendable beliefs.

 

[Heyo]

Slight tangent, so okay if you don't want to answer, but...
How do you calculate reward on belief, and change it accordingly? I get that you can act like a believer, or act like a non-believer. But the kernel of belief in a higher power that you have or don't have wouldn't change based on a reward assessment.

Thoughts?

I'm talking here about a hypothetical since I never calculated that switching to the believer side is profitable.
Other people did, though. In almost all cases that wasn't a conscious, rational decision but some combination of neuronal activity (a.k.a. a calculation) that resulted in the switch. The profit was most likely a warm, fuzzy feeling that wasn't there before the switch.
But that's all speculation. To know for sure we'd have to catch the switch while monitoring the brain.

 

[chinu]

So you're gambling right. Making a decision on some prediction of what you will gain or what you will lose.
Me, I'm not much of a gambler. So if you have to make a choice on which position to gamble on if there is information that allows a better prediction then you can make the better decision. If you can verify the information, verify the results that would be science.

With religion, prophets are basically fortunetellers. The information they provide can't be verified beyond the possibility that they occasionally get lucky with a prediction.

So if you are a gambler, you can pick your favorite fortuneteller and place your bets. Maybe you win, maybe you'll lose. Maybe you pick the right deity/belief to put your marker on.

Not being a gambler myself, picking either seems at best a coin toss or not even a coin toss because if you decide to pick a deity ti's one among many possible choices. So it's more like roulette, hoping your number comes up. Being an atheist means not placing a bet. Staying away from the roulette table entirely.

Even if I was a gambler, the profit & loss holds no particular appeal for me. I don't care about the promised profits nor about the promised losses. So to even spend my time at the roulette table seems a big waste of my time. I'd rather spend my time doing other things.

So really the choice not to make calculations based on claims made by fortunetellers makes me an atheist.

Wastage of time = LOSS.
Actually you totally missed to understand what I want to convey with my OP, Neither am making any kind of prediction.

 

[chinu]

All your examples in the OP were about profit and loss, you also said "It's quite understood that there might be some kind of PROFIT that you have seen in becoming an atheist".

I was making the point that it isn't all about profit and loss.

You said..

The "calculation" for me becoming an atheist is that I have seen zero evidence or sound arguments for any of the thousands of versions of god(s) that people have come up with.

You asked for the evidence, but, got NO evidence,
You listened to the arguments, but, got NO sound arguments,

After that.. you "Calculated" LOSS of being a theist because didn't saw any PROFIT.

Perhaps because.. wastage of time ? or something else that I cannot guess.

That's simply what I want say.

 

[chinu]

Sorry, but that's not how it works with me. What I believe or do not believe isn't based on a 'profit and loss calculation'. It's based strictly on whether or not there is sufficient evidence to believe in something. Just because I would LIKE to believe something isn't a factor. If there isn't sufficient evidence that a claim is true then regardless of how much I might want it to be true, I'm not going to be able to believe in it.

Perhaps, you don't want to waste your expensive time, because you didn't find NO sufficient evidence for.

Isn't the wastage of time a LOSS ?
Isn't that you want to save your precious time ? isn't saving precious time equal to PROFIT ?

Does verifiable evidence have anything at all to do with the calculations you make?

Why NOT ?
If I have invested my precious time doing that verification.

 

[chinu]

I like (and think I understand) your use of calculation and profit, but you may want to explain it more precisely for others.

I admit am NOT a good writer. Perhaps you are correct here, my friend.
I also thank you for reminding me this once again.

My (unconscious) calculations always returned zero when someone tried to sell me belief. The cost/benefit never appealed to me. But then I've always been a hard sell. If I don't need it, I don't buy it.

Good calculations. I really very much appreciate that.

You got me right, but I don't know why some people here get me wrong, perhaps they don't like my avatar

 

[chinu]

This is wrong. Because human beings don't live their lives based on calculation of profit and loss.

Nobody want LOSS. everybody want PROFIT. Depending on what an individual see as PROFIT.

For example: there's also a LOSS wasting time, and some people make PROFIT by saving their precious time.

This assumption doesn't for instance account for Christianity. Those who converted to following Jesus had people offer them all kinds of things to change their mind. As you will see in many businesses offering people perks such as overtime if they work on Sunday. And on the other end, we have martyrs. Lots and lots of martyrs, people who were offered the stick rather than the carrot for failing to "get with the program" and leave behind their faith.

 

[chinu]

No it doesn't.
Grammatically it's an indication that he's speaking about 'humanity' as a whole, rather than himself specifically. It does not change the fact that he's expressing a personal opinion, nor indicate ownership of other people's opinions.

If so, chinu is also a human.

 

[chinu]

What exactly is the "profit" to you here? Psychological? Is that actually the reason you became a believer in a spherical earth? Because you wanted to join the majority? (If there are any flat-earthers reading this thread, they'll be sure to make hay out of this confession that people only become spherical-earth believers out of a desire to conform.)

And back when the majority of people believed in a flat earth, what do you think motivated some to conclude the earth was spherical? One could repeat that question for any conclusion which was once minority opinion: that the earth revolved around the sun, that diseases were caused by micro-organisms, that slavery was evil... Were all the people who concluded that the majority was incorrect acting perversely by rejecting profit?

Believer in a spherical earth?

A student got good marks from science teacher in exams. Isn't that a PROFIT ?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm talking here about a hypothetical since I never calculated that switching to the believer side is profitable.
Other people did, though. In almost all cases that wasn't a conscious, rational decision but some combination of neuronal activity (a.k.a. a calculation) that resulted in the switch. The profit was most likely a warm, fuzzy feeling that wasn't there before the switch.
But that's all speculation. To know for sure we'd have to catch the switch while monitoring the brain.

Kinda comes back to what I said earlier. I can't come at calling a subconscious process we don't understand well 'calculated'.
And profit is a strange term. Benefit, perhaps? Reward?

I get that the OP doesn't have English as a first language and I'm not trying to be difficult. But there is some level of precision required to properly discuss the difference between conscious and calculated decision making (which is less prevalent than most seem to assume) and human behaviour and motivations more generally.

The topic is interesting, but I don't see the value in broad brushing all human decision making as if it works in a single, consistent manner.

I don't mean that to sound judgemental of the OP (and certainly not you). I do think the particular language being used is a barrier though.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If so, chinu is also a human.

Ha! Yes indeed.

But the proposition was referring to 'us' as the audience of the OP (ie. You).

 

[chinu]

Ha! Yes indeed.

But the proposition was referring to 'us' as the audience of the OP (ie. You).

Why NOT.
He, care his audience very much. After all his audience gives him likes and frubals.

Its all a PROFIT Game.

his reply was kind of thin on chinu and thick on audience.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, @chinu....
Why does your avatar face different directions with every post?

 

[chinu]

Hey, @chinu....
Why does your avatar face different directions with every post?

Yes, my avatar face different to signature But, that's NOT something done intentionally.

Why you asked this question ? What was your guess ?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, my avatar face different to signature But, that's NOT something done intentionallestiy.

Why you asked this question ? What was your guess ?

Ahah!
One is your avatar.
The other is your signature.

 

[Valjean]

He's a nervous sort, and doesn't want anyone sneaking up on him.

 

[night912]

There is profit? Then I'm due for back pay.