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What came before the Big Bang?

idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
atanu said:
This is where eastern wisdom is different... And it becomes a clash of words.

Just a small example. For you deep sleep is an un-conscious state. But Vedanta teaches that it is actually dense prajna, dense consciousness, without any contrast or partition or a second, and therefore mind cognises nothing.

The Self Realised sage, on the other hand, remains slumberless and Sees its own infinite sea of consciousness, wherefrom dream and waking worlds emerge successively.

Mind is conscious in dream and in waking, since there is contrast -- beginning with division of the single infinite consciousness into an 'i' and a world.

But the "I Am" is the division-less awareness of the deep sleep that enlightened sages see.
Click to expand...
So it is that 'I am' can be nondeclarative. That makes sense.
 
atanu

atanu

Member
Premium Member
atanu said:
Yes. The Word is fundamentally the silence, yet, which holds all sound in its bosom .. So to say. Word begins with awareness.
Click to expand...

This is the meaning of Hindus meditating on trailing sound of Om and Buddhists meditating on trailing sound of Bell.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
idav said:
Being is possible without consciousness. Being is a person or thing that exists or a state of existing. For example "We don't know how the universe came into being". Everything is being what it is. Being is a fact of existing in a state of time which doesn't require any action.

I like the term wu wei from Tao which is often referred to as "non-doing" and wu wei wu as "effortless doing". The true effortless doing is without ego or even thought.
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Being is consciousness itself, without a 'be-er'. For you, the universe still seems to be an object apart from consciousness. Nothing is apart from anything else, and I think you are confusing existence with being, the former that which is in time and space; the latter that which is pure consciousness, outside time and space, and without an agent of consciousness. It is very difficult to see this as the "I" continues to get in the way, so that we continue to see the universe as an object apart from the subject "I". That is impossible, as the universe contains the subject 100%.

'The universe IS The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'
YouKnowWho

The "I" of "I Am" is not the ego-self-I that we normally conceptualize. It is not a person, or entity, or agent, or thing. It is pure conscious seeing essence.
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
A blind man such as 'you'!
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Please do instruct this blind man who does not see this "I" to which you refer. Pray tell: what is this "I" you are so enamored of? Can you provide a description or location? Perhaps a sound the blind such as I can use to identify it with.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
Who notices that someone is chasing around the bush? Who is that? Any idea? And who would it be that notices the noticer? Hmmmmmm? Can you answer this simple question, Thief?
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Who is it so simple minded that he keeps asking the question....who?

Knock...knock....who's there?!!!!!!!

'I' know it's 'you'.

"You who?"....'you' will say.....

and around and around 'you' go.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
Who is it so simple minded that he keeps asking the question....who?

Knock...knock....who's there?!!!!!!!

'I' know it's 'you'.

"You who?"....'you' will say.....

and around and around 'you' go.
Click to expand...

There is no 'you' that keeps asking the question. . There is only asking and knocking itself, without an asker or a knocker. Show me this 'you' that is called 'I'. So far, 'you' are coming up empty handed. Have you found him yet?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
There is no 'you' that keeps asking the question. . There is only asking and knocking itself, without an asker or a knocker. Show me this 'you' that is called 'I'. So far, 'you' are coming up empty handed. Have you found him yet?
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Tag...'you' are 'it'.

Your constant 'self' denial isn't working.
Everyone can see 'you'.....internationally.

I bet by now, 'you' have become quite notable.....as a spring board.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
Tag...'you' are 'it'.

Your constant 'self' denial isn't working.
Everyone can see 'you'.....internationally.

I bet by now, 'you' have become quite notable.....as a spring board.
Click to expand...

Be that as it may, you still continue to beat around the bush. You cannot find "I" let alone describe it, so you put it on me. But I am standing still all the while, just pointing, and you know that, but want to keep playing your childish game.

Once again: what is "I"?

Tag. You're it.
 
`mud

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Around the bush again ?
Didn't either of you notice that the bush has blooms on it ?
Smell the roses blooming there, at least.....take a breath !
Watch out for those thorns though, try to keep your distance.
~
You both know who I'm talking to.
But.......have fun anyway.
~
'mud
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
'mud said:
Around the bush again ?
Didn't either of you notice that the bush has blooms on it ?
Smell the roses blooming there, at least.....take a breath !
Watch out for those thorns though, try to keep your distance.
~
You both know who I'm talking to.
But.......have fun anyway.
~
'mud
Click to expand...

"I" will.....don't know about that 'other guy'.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
"I" will.....don't know about that 'other guy'.
Click to expand...

I've been standing perfectly still this whole time, just pointing, while you go round and round to do everything but face the question your ego so wants to avoid, as that would mean its utter vaporization.

So here it is once again, in all its brazen glory and simplicity:

Who or what is this "I" that 'will'?

Should be a no brainer for you.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
I've been standing perfectly still this whole time, just pointing, while you go round and round to do everything but face the question your ego so wants to avoid, as that would mean its utter vaporization.

So here it is once again, in all its brazen glory and simplicity:

Who or what is this "I" that 'will'?

Should be a no brainer for you.
Click to expand...

Yep...there 'you' are.... pointing...

If 'you' have a location...there 'you' are.
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Alt Thinker said:
It wold explain why we see this very arbitrary universe. It would answer the age-old question “Why is there something instead of nothing” as well as the corollary question “Why is there this particular something instead of some other something”. It would also eliminate the problems that arise in the concept of a quasi-human superior being.
Click to expand...
You might like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5n4mJkVivs

I've always found the question very difficult to reason around, and still do, but this gave me some idea of how to start.
 
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