What came before the Big Bang?

[suncowiam]

Makes sense (at least as far as I can understand it).
I also might want to clarify, that I don't NECESSARILY think that you can't have a "before" the big bang.
I just think if you are going to talk about a "before" state, you need to justify why and how you use it. It's not as simple as it is when you talk about events that happen INSIDE the universe.

Now, I understand that there are models that describe ideas like the multiverse. I just think we have to keep in mind that these are all hypothesis at the current moment, not yet theories. I think until we have any way to test any of it, we simply don't know enough about the origin of the universe to make ANY clear claim about it.

Agreed as I've added disclaimers concerning the testability of string theory, and I did not choose that name. Its been a widely used name.

 

[outhouse]

Sure, there is!
A singularity (just in general) doesn't always refere necessarily to a black hole.
All black holes are singularites, but not all singularities are black holes.
So, when I was talking about THE singularity which referes to the original state of the universe, and you start talking about an example of any singularity (e.g. a black hole), it's wrongly equivocting one with the other.



Could it?
I don't know. I'm no cosmologist, but I've certainly never heard of the idea that the universe originated from a black hole.
But it's irrelevant if it COULD be. That doesn't matter to my point at all.

What we know is more of shape. Conical and curvature, and naked.

remember they are only mathematical predictions, are they even beyond a Phenomena?

Is the Big Bang a black hole?

the universe could be both a white hole and a black hole at the same time. Perhaps the truth is even stranger. In other words, who knows?

 

[outhouse]

more

The black hole at the birth of the Universe -- ScienceDaily


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-black-hole-that-birthed-the-big-bang/

 

[suncowiam]

One theory is that the universe behaves as a bounce (contracts and expands). There is a set amount of energy and mass. It bounces continuously and we are currently in the expansion phase. At some point the expansion will slow down and reverses itself. The contraction will eventually create the same singularity which causes the big-bang again. A black-hole theory aligns to this thought...

 

[Thief]

One theory is that the universe behaves as a bounce (contracts and expands). There is a set amount of energy and mass. It bounces continuously and we are currently in the expansion phase. At some point the expansion will slow down and reverses itself. The contraction will eventually create the same singularity which causes the big-bang again. A black-hole theory aligns to this thought...

A recent observation indicates the expansion continues AND....
is gaining speed!

 

[suncowiam]

I'm not advocating any theories when I mention them in this thread so please assume that is my default disclaimor. I'm just trying to add to the variuos theories concerning the big bang.

 

[Thief]

cool.....and strictly speaking no one here can affirm what we believe.....
we just lean to the 'experts' and quote what we hold to our viewpoints!

It is after all.....just theology.....with a little science of convenience!

 

[RichardParker]

cool.....and strictly speaking no one here can affirm what we believe.....
we just lean to the 'experts' and quote what we hold to our viewpoints!

It is after all.....just theology.....with a little science of convenience!

Given that we are talking about the big bang here, it's actually all science and none theology at all...

 

[Thief]

Given that we are talking about the big bang here, it's actually all science and none theology at all...

Substance first?.....or Spirit?

 

[RichardParker]

Substance first?.....or Spirit?

Ahm...
What?
What does that question even mean? What substance are you talking about?
And spirit? Are the such things as spirit? I don't even know that spirits exist.

 

[Thief]

Ahm...
What?
What does that question even mean? What substance are you talking about?
And spirit? Are the such things as spirit? I don't even know that spirits exist.

Ok....you came to the gun fight with a knife.

 

[RichardParker]

Ok....you came to the gun fight with a knife.

I am not even fighting at all... so another analogy that completly passes me by.

So, you won't answer my question here?
I mean, your last poste was just "Substance first? Or spirit?"
This means nothing. Maybe there is a context in your head in which it might make sense, I really don't know...
But if there is, why not share it with me, instead of making weird fighting-analogies?

 

[Thief]

I am not even fighting at all... so another analogy that completly passes me by.

So, you won't answer my question here?
I mean, your last poste was just "Substance first? Or spirit?"
This means nothing. Maybe there is a context in your head in which it might make sense, I really don't know...
But if there is, why not share it with me, instead of making weird fighting-analogies?

So we have to back up even further......
Do you recognize an entity....when you look in the mirror?

 

[RichardParker]

So we have to back up even further......
Do you recognize an entity....when you look in the mirror?

:sarcastic
I'm not entirely sure if you are for real here...
Are you just kidding around?
What kind of stupid question is that, how come you are incapable of just answering, when I ask you to clarifiy?

But all right.
Yes. I recognize an entity, when watching in the mirror. Even further: I recognize that it is actually a reflection of an entity, and that entity being me.
Now what?

 

[`mud]

Reversed directional protons upon one's own image don't enhance one's importance, so I don't follow what this is going to turn into.
Like the exiting plasma from a black hole, I will add the further thought of the following:

Along the lines of the belief in one 'single' singularity existing before the advent of the "Big bang" theory,
and the existence of some kind of "void" surrounding the singularity, the uni-singularity would have to inflate into the "void".
Black hole singularities are self ingested into a supercondensed plasma and then vent out through their inner vortie into free space.
Big difference here.
I think a better term for the exausted plasmas exiting a black hole is needed, because black holes aren't really singularities.
But what do I know !
~
'mud

 

[idav]

Hey mud, outside our box of space time is eternity but it takes keeping unsurmountable power to stay there. The big bang could be a way of taking a break.

 

[godnotgod]

:sarcastic
I'm not entirely sure if you are for real here...
Are you just kidding around?
What kind of stupid question is that, how come you are incapable of just answering, when I ask you to clarifiy?

But all right.
Yes. I recognize an entity, when watching in the mirror. Even further: I recognize that it is actually a reflection of an entity, and that entity being me.
Now what?

Richard, you now have had your first taste of Thief.

 

[Thief]

:sarcastic
I'm not entirely sure if you are for real here...
Are you just kidding around?
What kind of stupid question is that, how come you are incapable of just answering, when I ask you to clarifiy?

But all right.
Yes. I recognize an entity, when watching in the mirror. Even further: I recognize that it is actually a reflection of an entity, and that entity being me.
Now what?

Now then.....are you your own creation?
You are your own handiwork?

Nothing Greater than you?

 

[idav]

Now then.....are you your own creation?
You are your own handiwork?

Nothing Greater than you?

The universe created us.

 

[Thief]

Reversed directional protons upon one's own image don't enhance one's importance, so I don't follow what this is going to turn into.
Like the exiting plasma from a black hole, I will add the further thought of the following:

Along the lines of the belief in one 'single' singularity existing before the advent of the "Big bang" theory,
and the existence of some kind of "void" surrounding the singularity, the uni-singularity would have to inflate into the "void".
Black hole singularities are self ingested into a supercondensed plasma and then vent out through their inner vortie into free space.
Big difference here.
I think a better term for the exausted plasmas exiting a black hole is needed, because black holes aren't really singularities.
But what do I know !
~
'mud

OH!....so you CAN think!

atta boy!