What came before the Big Bang?

[suncowiam]

OH!....so you CAN think!

atta boy!

Sorry Thief, I've read some of your previous threads and they've added to the subject but I'm not sure how this does. To me it's slowing down the thread because I can't figure out what you're trying to say. I kind of would like to continue to listen to big bang stuff...

 

[outhouse]

One theory is that the universe behaves as a bounce (contracts and expands). There is a set amount of energy and mass. It bounces continuously and we are currently in the expansion phase. At some point the expansion will slow down and reverses itself. The contraction will eventually create the same singularity which causes the big-bang again. A black-hole theory aligns to this thought...

Its still unsubstantiated.


Expansion is solid though.

 

[outhouse]

Ahm...
What?
What does that question even mean? What substance are you talking about?
And spirit? Are the such things as spirit? I don't even know that spirits exist.

he stays on my ignore for this babble

he refuses to substantiate it any meaningful manner.


he refused to debate in any meaningful manner


he also refuses any credible knowledge that contradicts his fanaticism, like reality.

 

[suncowiam]

Its still unsubstantiated.


Expansion is solid though.

Thief and you are definitely right concerning our observation.

 

[RichardParker]

Now then.....are you your own creation?
You are your own handiwork?

Nothing Greater than you?

And where did I say THAT?
Of course there are greater things than me!
I'm 5 feed 9, so I'm not exactly small, but many people are bigger than me.
Or what do you mean by "great"?
Smarter? Well, many people are smarter than me too.
Stronger? Well, same as above.
So sure, many people are "greater" than me, by whatver standard.

And my own "creation"?
No. I'm here because my parents had sex.
So... would you say I'm their "creation"?
They certainly were the entities that had the biggest part in it, but most of the "work" was mainly done by natural processes.
So... what now?

 

[Thief]

And where did I say THAT?
Of course there are greater things than me!
I'm 5 feed 9, so I'm not exactly small, but many people are bigger than me.
Or what do you mean by "great"?
Smarter? Well, many people are smarter than me too.
Stronger? Well, same as above.
So sure, many people are "greater" than me, by whatver standard.

And my own "creation"?
No. I'm here because my parents had sex.
So... would you say I'm their "creation"?
They certainly were the entities that had the biggest part in it, but most of the "work" was mainly done by natural processes.
So... what now?

A bit shallow on the retort.
Care to step it up?

 

[Thief]

Sorry Thief, I've read some of your previous threads and they've added to the subject but I'm not sure how this does. To me it's slowing down the thread because I can't figure out what you're trying to say. I kind of would like to continue to listen to big bang stuff...

Science will take you to the singularity and come up short.

Every time I listen to some theoretical explanation they stop short of problem.
They want to say the whole of the universe (one word)....was no larger than a grain of sand and really, really hot!
The gravity field beyond comprehension.

Well duh.....

If you can believe THAT!....what keeps you from believing in God?

For the singularity to be truly singular.....no secondary point may be allowed.
THAT would be the true perspective.
Simultaneous to the formation of a secondary....infinity is there.

Now sit still and consider.
Nothing moves without 'something to move it'.

You heard that before.......science is real big on that notion.

Care to side step science for the sake of disbelief?

 

[`mud]

hey Thief,
OK...given the "void" of absolute nothingness surrounding the compacted 'singularity' with absolute infinite 'gravity' at it's point core.
Now....no 'movement' is had by any entity, nothing moving in the 'void', absolute stillness in the 'singularity'.
And then come some kind of 'cause', from somewhere, exhibiting some of 'pressure' upon or within the 'singularity'.
The 'cause' presents inertia into or upon the 'singularity' in all directions, 'causing' motion from the original positions of stoic stillness that once were occupied.
Now....to Thread....is this 'cause' the God that you refer to ? Or..was this the container outside the 'void' that contained the 'singularity' or was the 'singularity' the source of the 'cause' ? In other words....where was God ?
~
"what keeps you from believing in God?".....Where was your God ? Was your God the 'cause' ?
Did your God contain the 'void' or was your God inside the 'void' or inside the 'singularity' ?
~
I guess if one believes in there being only one 'singularity' I can accept the possibility of one's beliefs.
But I believe there were many trillions of singularities beyond our thinking, trillions of "BB's" beyond any eternity.
I believe there are unimaginable eternities contained within our Cosmos.
~
And I don't believe in the reality of any 'gods', but somewhere out there is another entity a lot like me, wondering where 'I' am.
~
nuff stuff
'mud

 

[Thief]

hey Thief,
OK...given the "void" of absolute nothingness surrounding the compacted 'singularity' with absolute infinite 'gravity' at it's point core.
Now....no 'movement' is had by any entity, nothing moving in the 'void', absolute stillness in the 'singularity'.
And then come some kind of 'cause', from somewhere, exhibiting some of 'pressure' upon or within the 'singularity'.
The 'cause' presents inertia into or upon the 'singularity' in all directions, 'causing' motion from the original positions of stoic stillness that once were occupied.
Now....to Thread....is this 'cause' the God that you refer to ? Or..was this the container outside the 'void' that contained the 'singularity' or was the 'singularity' the source of the 'cause' ? In other words....where was God ?
~
"what keeps you from believing in God?".....Where was your God ? Was your God the 'cause' ?
Did your God contain the 'void' or was your God inside the 'void' or inside the 'singularity' ?
~
I guess if one believes in there being only one 'singularity' I can accept the possibility of one's beliefs.
But I believe there were many trillions of singularities beyond our thinking, trillions of "BB's" beyond any eternity.
I believe there are unimaginable eternities contained within our Cosmos.
~
And I don't believe in the reality of any 'gods', but somewhere out there is another entity a lot me, wondering where 'I' am.
~
nuff stuff
'mud

ok...
I reached a 'point'...'where'....I had to make a choice.
That point doesn't have a three dimensional existence.
And it is not a substance.
Substance is dead material and the dead will not beget life.

At the 'point'.....Spirit first?....or substance?
The choice was easy for me.

Any Spirit capable of creation would be a god.
That One Spirit....first in mind and heart.....would be THE God.

 

[godnotgod]

hey Thief,
OK...given the "void" of absolute nothingness surrounding the compacted 'singularity' with absolute infinite 'gravity' at it's point core.
Now....no 'movement' is had by any entity, nothing moving in the 'void', absolute stillness in the 'singularity'.
And then come some kind of 'cause', from somewhere, exhibiting some of 'pressure' upon or within the 'singularity'.
The 'cause' presents inertia into or upon the 'singularity' in all directions, 'causing' motion from the original positions of stoic stillness that once were occupied.
Now....to Thread....is this 'cause' the God that you refer to ? Or..was this the container outside the 'void' that contained the 'singularity' or was the 'singularity' the source of the 'cause' ? In other words....where was God ?
~
"what keeps you from believing in God?".....Where was your God ? Was your God the 'cause' ?
Did your God contain the 'void' or was your God inside the 'void' or inside the 'singularity' ?
~
I guess if one believes in there being only one 'singularity' I can accept the possibility of one's beliefs.
But I believe there were many trillions of singularities beyond our thinking, trillions of "BB's" beyond any eternity.
I believe there are unimaginable eternities contained within our Cosmos.
~
And I don't believe in the reality of any 'gods', but somewhere out there is another entity a lot like me, wondering where 'I' am.
~
nuff stuff
'mud

All of which assumes the singularity and all that came from it represents something real. But what if this world we see, touch, smell, feel, and hear is but an illusion, but one of a higher order, a much higher order, than the illusions we are used to, and beyond the perceptual world? If that is so, then the singularity is an event in consciousness, just as the dream world we experience during sleep is an event in consciousness. Of course, if the world is illusion but of a higher order, then the consciousness that manifests the illusion is also of a higher order. Our ordinary, conditioned mentality does not know this higher state of being. It takes an awakening and transformation of existing consciousness for this to come to fruition, and when it does, our vision becomes clear so that we then see things as they are, rather than how our conditioned mind thinks they are. It is then that all of the nuts and bolts of science and doctrines of religion can be seen in the context of actual Reality, rather than the other way around.

Allow me to add to this that, if the world is indeed an illusion, then there is no time, space, or causation to be concerned with, as an illusion is not real; only the pure consciousness which is experiencing Reality right now is real.

"When we dream we do not know that we are dreaming. In our dreams we may even interpret our dreams. Only after we are awake do we know that we have dreamed. But there comes a great awakening, and then we know that life is a great dream. But fools think they are awake all the time and believe they know it distinctly."

"Once I, Chuang Tzu, dreamed I was a butterfly and was happy as a butterfly. I was conscious that I was quite pleased with myself, but I did not know that I was Tzu. Suddenly I awoke, and there was I, visibly Tzu. I do not know whether it was Tzu dreaming that he was a butterfly or the butterfly dreaming that he was Tzu. Between Tzu and the butterfly there must be some distinction. This is called the transformation of material things."


Chuang Tzu, Ancient Taoist

Chuang Tzu: The Next Voice

 

[RichardParker]

A bit shallow on the retort.
Care to step it up?

Shallow?
I was as detailed as your vague question allowed it!
Care to clarify your question?

 

[suncowiam]

If you can believe THAT!....what keeps you from believing in God?

.
.
.

Care to side step science for the sake of disbelief?

Your last question is basically, a resounding no for me.

Science is my belief.

Math is not man-made. It is innate to our universe. Man observed the universe to "create" the fields of math. Two intelligent beings with no other forms of communication can communicate soley through math.

These theories can be formulated by math. It does not prove that they are true but because they stand on top of what has been drawn from the universe, I will follow this path.

God on the other hand... All the concepts to believe in God are man-made. Faith is very much man-made. If one can describe God in mathematical terms then I'm all ears.

 

[outhouse]

Your last question is basically, a resounding no for me.
.

its like he is saying, avoid reality so my imagination can have some credibility!

 

[godnotgod]

If one can describe God in mathematical terms then I'm all ears.

God is a circle whose circumference is endless and whose center is everywhere.

 

[Thief]

God is a circle whose circumference is endless and whose center is everywhere.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

so.....'you' flunked geometry class?

 

[Thief]

Your last question is basically, a resounding no for me.

Science is my belief.

Math is not man-made. It is innate to our universe. Man observed the universe to "create" the fields of math. Two intelligent beings with no other forms of communication can communicate soley through math.

These theories can be formulated by math. It does not prove that they are true but because they stand on top of what has been drawn from the universe, I will follow this path.

God on the other hand... All the concepts to believe in God are man-made. Faith is very much man-made. If one can describe God in mathematical terms then I'm all ears.

Whoa!.....and you flunked math class.

God doesn't need numbers.

btw...Einstein attempted as you say.......he died trying.
There will never be a God equation....or experiment.
God cannot be summarized better than to say ....I AM!...
The experiment won't fit in the petri dish.

 

[suncowiam]

Whoa!.....and you flunked math class.

God doesn't need numbers.

btw...Einstein attempted as you say.......he died trying.
There will never be a God equation....or experiment.
God cannot be summarized better than to say ....I AM!...
The experiment won't fit in the petri dish.

I definitely didn't flunk math class. Math was my best subject. I flunked everything else especially English.

 

[outhouse]

....I AM!...

So is everyone else after they say that.

Oops now "I am!"

 

[godnotgod]

I definitely didn't flunk math class. Math was my best subject. I flunked everything else especially English.

The philosopher Emmanuel Kant said that Reason reaches ineluctible limits. We have discovered that on the micro scales (Quantum Mechanics/the measurement problem) and on the macro scale (Black Holes), as this video demonstrates: the math no longer makes any sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfrvTbsRWHs

Kaku is humble and intelligent enough to recognize that 'nature is smarter than we are'.

 

[suncowiam]

Whoa!.....and you flunked math class.

God doesn't need numbers.

btw...Einstein attempted as you say.......he died trying.
There will never be a God equation....or experiment.
God cannot be summarized better than to say ....I AM!...
The experiment won't fit in the petri dish.

Thief, assume that I'm slow in understanding others.

What do you exactly mean when you quote "I AM!"?