What came before the Big Bang?

[godnotgod]

"The glib assertions by many scientists and science popularizers that ‘nobody understands quantum mechanics’– another Feynman idiom – is balderdash. Competent physicists (as opposed to poorly informed science writers or science philosophers), who use quantum mechanics on a daily basis to elucidate successfully countless physical phenomena, clearly must understand the instrument with which they are working."
Silverman, M. P. (2008). Quantum Superposition: Counterintuitive Consequences of Coherence, Entanglement, and Interference (Frontiers Collection)Springer-Verlag.

Of course, no doubt having read Feynman's lectures you know exactly what he meant and the context of his quip about "anybody who says they understand" QM is a liar (something he used to say in class, including to John Conway). And you can determine if this is true through you diligent reading of the literature

Oh wait. You can't do more than watch Deepak Chopra on youtube. Nevermind.

More basic than any of this crap, I am saying that QM is not accessible via common sense. If it were, yer average six-pack Joe could figger it out just by jabbering back and forth with other illiterate slobs.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

If it were, yer average six-pack Joe could figger it out just by jabbering back and forth with other illiterate slobs.

You are "yer average" person trying to figure it out. You're not a physicist or scientist. You're knowledge of physics is based on youtube clips that aren't about physics and some popular website quotes and quips.

 

[godnotgod]

You were looking for some nonsensical, vacuous, essentialist metaphysical formulation. Its ironic that the facts that science provides, which, you claim, do not divulge "the nature" of the world, are infinitely more informative than this pearl of wisdom you've provided us, presumably as a result of extensive meditation, consciousness-raising, and hallucinogenic-drug ingesting. How ironic.

Yeah, right. I'm some pot smoking deranged Berzerkley radical who is intent on overthrowing the government at the drop of a hat.

The statement is simple, but you can only see it through your idiotic biases.

Informative facts, however much informative, do not tell us anything as to the nature of the universe. You apparently think facts are reality. It seems you have zero intuitive sense to see what is being said here, and your conditioned mentality can only see the world in terms of black and white. Any information that is out of the box is seen as weird, mysterious, spooky, drug-induced, nebulous, etc. I suspect you are the kind of person who, if chained to a wall, and were forced to watch someone unfold a brand new road map in front of you, then refold it the wrong way, would just go bananas. You need to have reality presented to you in nice, neat, digestible little square packages, perfectly conforming to some measurement standard, categorized, labeled, and officially stamped, palatable to your equally standardized and conformist brain. Perhaps if you get your way someday, you can direct the bulldozers to turn the Earth into a perfect cube, and then lay concrete on every surface, proceeding to then illuminate every square inch of it with (of course) GE brand floodlamps.

Where will you put the hippies in chains?

 

[godnotgod]

You are "yer average" person trying to figure it out. You're not a physicist or scientist. You're knowledge of physics is based on youtube clips that aren't about physics and some popular website quotes and quips.

No, YOU are the average mentality using science to try to figure it out, when there is nothing to figure out, but you sure think so.

No, I am not a physicist or scientist, NOR DO I NEED TO BE, in order to have an understanding of the universe and of myself, and neither am I Joe SixPack, who can't see beyond what he thinks is the 'material' world.

The reality is that the average schmo and the scientist are very much alike.

They both can't see!

(Actually, Joe SixPack has just a bit better vision than the scientist, LOL)

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

No, YOU are the average mentality using science to try to figure it out

It's a ******* product of science. Deepak didn't invent it he crapped all over it. You can't possibly understand it because you don't have the background you just regurgitate internet-fed nonsense about it you read from websites or heard on youtube. It was developed by westerners and by physicists (scientists). Not online-educated "mystics".

 

[Thief]

Excuse me: YOU, as in YOU, are the one who implied that a 'nature of the world' was understood by YOU via factual knowledge! Now you want to put the onus on me. Apparently, YOU do not understand what you are saying.



OMG!






Stop trying to guess what I am thinking.



Science gives us all the facts but tells us absolutely nothing.

It is now clear to me that you simply don't know what the universe is.



Now before you provide a classic LOM knee-jerk parrot reaction, please reflect on that statement so that you really do understand it.

For someone that claims otherwise....YOU use the word quite often.
as well as the word 'I'...

...and God is not allowed to say...'I AM!'...?

 

[godnotgod]

It's a ******* product of science. Deepak didn't invent it he crapped all over it. You can't possibly understand it because you don't have the background you just regurgitate internet-fed nonsense about it you read from websites or heard on google. It was developed by westerners and by physicists (scientists). Not online-educated "mystics".

Developed by scientists who don't know what they're looking at.

YOU don't know what you're looking at!

I trust Joe SixPack far more than I do some myopic-eyed square-headed lab-pastey fool who really believes science and math are going to tell him something important about the universe.

At least physicist Michio Kaku has the intelligence (he would; he's Japanese) and humility to admit that 'nature is smarter than we are'.

So when 'ya gonna pay a visit to yer KeyGong instructor, so he can reorient things a bit for 'ya a bit, huh? Just a slight adjustment uff der brain, and BANG! OMG! It's EMPTY! And it's....full of...STARS!...LMAO...or is that LOM?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Yeah, right. I'm some pot smoking deranged Berzerkley radical who is intent on overthrowing the government at the drop of a hat.

Hey, you said it not me.

Informative facts, however much informative, do not tell us anything as to the nature of the universe.

Only if you have this bizarre, anachronistic, essentialist notion of the "nature" of things.

You apparently think facts are reality.

Um, yes.

It seems you have zero intuitive sense to see what is being said here, and your conditioned mentality can only see the world in terms of black and white. Any information that is out of the box is seen as weird, mysterious, spooky, drug-induced, nebulous, etc.

The problem with your claims is not that they are "out of the box"- oftentimes the most fruitful ideas are those outside of the box; its that, when they are intelligible at all, they appear to be mere fiction; you're unable to offer any reason for thinking they are true, in the form of cogent reasoning or evidence. As I've said several times, you're just writing pure fiction.

I suspect you are the kind of person who, if chained to a wall, and were forced to watch someone unfold a brand new road map in front of you, then refold it the wrong way, would just go bananas. You need to have reality presented to you in nice, neat, digestible little square packages, perfectly conforming to some measurement standard, categorized, labeled, and officially stamped, palatable to your equally standardized and conformist brain. Perhaps if you get your way someday, you can direct the bulldozers to turn the Earth into a perfect cube, and then lay concrete on every surface, proceeding to then illuminate every square inch of it with (of course) GE brand floodlamps.

Now that you've gotten this irrelevant, ad-hominem temper tantrum out of the way, perhaps you're ready to start thinking more clearly.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Developed by scientists who don't know what they're looking at.

How would you know? Oh, I forgot. You have access to the source itself. Which is why you depend on google and youtube for everything.

 

[Thief]

Developed by scientists who don't know what they're looking at.

YOU don't know what you're looking at!

I trust Joe SixPack far more than I do some myopic-eyed square-headed lab-pastey fool who really believes science and math are going to tell him something important about the universe.

At least physicist Michio Kaku has the intelligence (he would; he's Japanese) and humility to admit that 'nature is smarter than we are'.

...see what 'I' mean?

...and KaKu doesn't like the word infinity....but he deals with it.

 

[godnotgod]

How would you know? Oh, I forgot. You have access to the source itself. Which is why you depend on google and youtube for everything.

They're my little helpers...

I see that you are now enjoying their use...It's OK. I won't let on to the other puffed up pastries ...

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I see that you are now enjoying their use

What are you talking about?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

While I know that this was little more than an emotional outburst, not intended to be taken seriously, I couldn't help but point out the irony here-

You need to have reality presented to you in nice, neat, digestible little square packages, perfectly conforming to some measurement standard, categorized, labeled, and officially stamped, palatable to your equally standardized and conformist brain. Perhaps if you get your way someday, you can direct the bulldozers to turn the Earth into a perfect cube, and then lay concrete on every surface, proceeding to then illuminate every square inch of it with (of course) GE brand floodlamps.

Since I am, among other things, an atheist, a political radical, and a moral anti-realist, I'm clearly just another conformist zombie who's been spit out of the Big Bad Corporation assembly line, unable to think outside of the cozy little comfort zone prescribed by those in authority... Derp! What a joker. As if this was a matter of freethinker vs. conformist, rather than just crackpottery vs. common sense.

 

[godnotgod]

As if this was a matter of freethinker vs. conformist, rather than just crackpottery vs. common sense.

It's not. It's just a simple matter of waking up and seeing through the facade, rather than indulging in the discriminating mind which just continues to churn up more reinforcements of the facade.

I don't disagree with you about differing natures of things and lifeforms, but what I was asking, was about the nature of the totality of the universe. The rationale in calling it 'absolute' is that the universe is all that there is, and so, there is no 'other' to which it can be compared.

Does that make any sense to you?

 

[idav]

It's not. It's just a simple matter of waking up and seeing through the facade, rather than indulging in the discriminating mind which just continues to churn up more reinforcements of the facade.

I dont remember, do you take the red pill or the blue pill?

 

[godnotgod]

I dont remember, do you take the red pill or the blue pill?

Either is to continue dreaming, one on the second level and the other on the third level; both continue the drama of enslavement and Identification. The consequences of both states need to be transcended.

If you have no clue that there exists a facade, then you will never wake up into the fourth level.

Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, a veritable butterfly, enjoying itself to the full of its bent, and not knowing it was Chuang Chou. Suddenly I awoke, and came to myself, the veritable Chuang Chou. Now I do not know whether it was then I dreamt I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man. Between me and the butterfly there must be a difference. This is an instance of transformation.

During our dreams we do not know we are dreaming. We may even dream of interpreting a dream. Only on waking do we know it was a dream. Only after the great awakening will we realize that this is the great dream. And yet fools think they are awake, presuming to know that they are rulers or herdsmen. How dense!

Chuang Chou
*****

Thou hast nor youth nor age, but as it were,
an after-dinner sleep,
dreaming on both.
TS Elliot

 

[godnotgod]

What came before the Big Bang?

[youtube]sFXbMI1NoPs[/youtube]
How Was The Universe Born? Sir Rodger Penrose and Vagan Gurzadyan - YouTube

This is consistent with Buddhist and Hindu cosmological models of a beginingless universe.

 

[godnotgod]

"The thing about smart mother-f*****s, is...

They sound like crazy mother-f*****s
to dumb mother-f*****s!

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
Einstein​

 

[Slapstick]

If common sense were applicable to QM, everyone would easily understand it. But no one does.

That is a complete 180 of what you originally said. You go from one extreme to the next.

People in the field of physics who study QM like theoretical physicists have great understanding QM. Thanks to their research and experimentation other people who do not have a PhD relating to physics can understand physics and QM too. It would be expected from anyone that chooses to discuss or better understand a given topic to have the most basic, fundamental understanding of a topic before debating it. You would not try out for a baseball team if you never picked up a bat or thrown a baseball. If you did, then you wouldn’t make it very far.

Back to common sense. It is common sense (knowledge) among physicist when it comes to QM. As a matter of fact, the LHC has been running at half power since it first began conducting test and experiments and has still found the Higgs to complete the standard model. It is just the beginning for physicists who choose and devote enormous amounts of time to learn more about the Universe. On top of that, soon as the LHC begins operating at full power; they will be performing more experiments on supersymmetry and the AMS to study dark matter and further research double-disk dark matter. They are the real experts. Thanks to their contributions to science the average person can gain a great depth of understanding about the universe as well. Deepak is not even a physicist, resorts to alternative medicine and has been criticized by those who are fully qualified physicists (PhD) for overstepping his boundaries and talking about things he knows little to nothing about.

 

[godnotgod]

That is a complete 180 of what you originally said. You go from one extreme to the next.

People in the field of physics who study QM like theoretical physicists have great understanding QM. Thanks to their research and experimentation other people who do not have a PhD relating to physics can understand physics and QM too. It would be expected from anyone that chooses to discuss or better understand a given topic to have the most basic, fundamental understanding of a topic before debating it. You would not try out for a baseball team if you never picked up a bat or thrown a baseball. If you did, then you wouldn’t make it very far.

Back to common sense. It is common sense (knowledge) among physicist when it comes to QM. As a matter of fact, the LHC has been running at half power since it first began conducting test and experiments and has still found the Higgs to complete the standard model. It is just the beginning for physicists who choose and devote enormous amounts of time to learn more about the Universe. On top of that, soon as the LHC begins operating at full power; they will be performing more experiments on supersymmetry and the AMS to study dark matter and further research double-disk dark matter. They are the real experts. Thanks to their contributions to science the average person can gain a great depth of understanding about the universe as well. Deepak is not even a physicist, resorts to alternative medicine and has been criticized by those who are fully qualified physicists (PhD) for overstepping his boundaries and talking about things he knows little to nothing about.

Chopra has the bigger picture to put QM into the right context because, by default, the mystic's view includes everything. We need the bigger picture in order to interpret QM. The scientist does not know how to interpret what his facts tell him. You don't want an expert or specialist for interpretation, unless you happen to have someone like an Amit Goswami, who is both physicist and mystic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42mrdhKwRA

Goswami's interpretation of his scientific knowledge about QM coincides, pretty much, with Chopra's interpretation. Why? Because in the final analysis, there is only one way the universe is, and the mystic sees it that one way, and other mystics also see it that same way. The scientist has not yet arrived at the point where he has this vision. He is still toying around with the machinations of the discriminating mind, not the enlightened mind, and so, different scientists have differing views. They don't yet see the One Reality that the universe is about. They still see the universe as being fragmented into many 'parts'.

Chopra cannot overstep any boundaries. You don't understand what you're saying, because the mystic's view contains the scientific view, but the scientific view does not contain the mystic's view. While the scientist omits the mystic's view, the mystic incorporates and integrates the scientific view into the big picture. This is what Chopra does, and what the scientist finds offensive, when it should be the other way around. The mystic should be up in arms over the scientist and his clinical approach via dissection. Understand?

In spite of the fact that Chopra is not a physicist, he IS a scientist, and he DOES consult with physicists. In fact, he has now written two books in partnership with two physicists. So what are you talking about?

re: common sense: Your explanation is faulty, in that common sense is where the average Joe can figure things out just via talking about them, without any other source, such as classroom or textbook learning. The non-scientist, in just working things out with 'common sense' will never understand QM in the slightest possible way. The average Joe's 'common sense' is still rooted in a consciousness that is a conditioned one. As for the scientist, (whose consciousness is also highly conditioned) most shun the mystic view as 'crap', but the more intelligent ones, like physicist Dr. Anton Zellinger, are humble enough to consult with the Dalai Lama about QM:

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjd26JSaq64