What church is the true church?

[sojourner]

in the Trinity the three are known to be equal. yet Jesus and the holly spirit are clearly displayed as subordinate = serving God

I don't see a problem with the concept of "first among equals." The Anglican Church has operated on that same principle since its inception.

 

[McBell]

Anyone one who has faith in One God (this excludes the trinity)...follows Abraham.

In reality One cannot be three...and three cannot be One..

It is interesting the limits you put on your god.

Though it is refreshing to see you do not think your god to be all powerful.

 

[Orias]

Has anyone played dominos lately? :bat:

 

[Muffled]

That's what you WANT to believe because the club you have membership to promotes this concept. It's human nature to follow the group without questioning. Question is, is it the truth? If so, what evidence do you have from your scripture?

My club considers me a heretic because I believe something diffeent about the Trinity than they do. I believe the truth as God sees it.

I have always asked questions but haven't always been satisfied with the answers. However when I was a child, I thought as a child and have matured greatly in my faith since then.

God is happy with it.

 

[Muffled]

What does Jesus wish his true church would believe? That's the problem. We all have different views on what that is because some verses point one direction while others point somewhere else.

For one thing God does not wish His church to believe in God in three persons. He believes this borders on idolatry. It is good to view God as He represents Himself in the three members of the Trinity.

It is not a problem for Jesus.

That is usually the problem that men come up with divergent theories from their own minds instead of listening to what Jesus says. The idea that some verses are inconsistent comes from a lack of understanind of the verses.

 

[Muffled]

God doesnt have a God-- but Jesus has a God-John 20:17,, rev 3:12

So you don't think God believes in Himself? What brings you to such a strange conclusion? I believe God consistently views Himself as God.

 

[Shermana]

So you don't think God believes in Himself? What brings you to such a strange conclusion? I believe God consistently views Himself as God.

You're confusing the concept of having a god with believing in himself as god.

Jesus referred to THE God as "his" god. Do you understand the concept of being "one's god"?

That is usually the problem that men come up with divergent theories from their own minds instead of listening to what Jesus says. The idea that some verses are inconsistent comes from a lack of understanind of the verses.

And who has the correct understanding of those verses? Who is accurately listening to Jesus, especially when certain verses require a lot of contextual ideas from the Jewish basis? For example, when Jesus says to give to anyone who asks of you and not ask for it back, what does that mean? Give me $50,000!

Who's interpretation of Jesus's words shall we go by? It's not like everything he teaches is crystal clear. Are we supposed to actually eat bread and drink wine that is TRULY his flesh and blood? Or was he being just metaphorical, but we still have to eat it? When Jesus says to obey everything the Pharisees say to do because they sit in the Seat of Moses, does that mean obey all the Talmud? Why not obey what he teaches in the "non-canonical" texts like the Gospel of Thomas? Who got to decide that work is heretical?

 

[Aamer]

So you don't think God believes in Himself? What brings you to such a strange conclusion? I believe God consistently views Himself as God.

Jesus PRAYED to God! If he WAS God (as most post-Constantine Christians claim), why would he need to pray to ANYONE? God is the creator. He created the heavens, the Earth, the Universes, etc. Does he really need to PRAY to anyone? No! Jesus was not God. If he was, he wouldn't need to pray to anyone. Common sense. Jesus was the "paida" of God. "Paida" is the Greek word which can be translated as either SON or SERVANT. The Romans took a vote at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD and decided he was literally the son of God. Then combined this with the story of Horus and other pagan deities and decided he was the son and God at the same time. Most modern Christians are committing the worst kind of blasphemy and making excuses for it. Jesus would burn your churches to the ground and smash your idols if he was here. I kid you not. Jesus worshipped his creator, the heavenly father. He never asked to be worshipped. He was a loyal servant (paida) of God. The Romans converted you guys to THEIR religion. Wake up my brothers and sisters!!!!

 

[savagewind]

Jesus PRAYED to God! If he WAS God (as most post-Constantine Christians claim), why would he need to pray to ANYONE? God is the creator. He created the heavens, the Earth, the Universes, etc. Does he really need to PRAY to anyone? No! Jesus was not God. If he was, he wouldn't need to pray to anyone. Common sense. Jesus was the "paida" of God. "Paida" is the Greek word which can be translated as either SON or SERVANT. The Romans took a vote at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD and decided he was literally the son of God. Then combined this with the story of Horus and other pagan deities and decided he was the son and God at the same time. Most modern Christians are committing the worst kind of blasphemy and making excuses for it. Jesus would burn your churches to the ground and smash your idols if he was here. I kid you not. Jesus worshipped his creator, the heavenly father. He never asked to be worshipped. He was a loyal servant (paida) of God. The Romans converted you guys to THEIR religion. Wake up my brothers and sisters!!!!

I do not disagree with what you say. Yehoshua lived his life as a perfect servant. But he is also God's son.

Hosea 1:10 "Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'children of the living God.'

2 Cor 6:18 And, "I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."

 

[Katzpur]

For one thing God does not wish His church to believe in God in three persons. It is good to view God as He represents Himself in the three members of the Trinity.

Muffled, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but it sounds to me as if these two statements are contradictory. Could you please clarify what you mean by these statements?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The 'true' church is whichever one of them are threatening to kill you at the time.

 

[Aamer]

I do not disagree with what you say. Yehoshua lived his life as a perfect servant. But he is also God's son.

Hosea 1:10 "Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'children of the living God.'

2 Cor 6:18 And, "I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."

In that sense I agree with you. All believers are children of God. I don't take this to mean literally the biological children of God. Keep in mind that Israel (Jacob) was also the son of God as were many others. But Israels biological father was Isaac. It's not meant to be taken literally.

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

 

[Aamer]

And to be clear, the only begotten son thing holds no weight because in the OT, Psalms 2:7, God says David was also his begotten son. It's a title, a rank of dignity. Not meant to be taken literally. Here's the verse about King David...

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

 

[Shermana]

Jesus PRAYED to God! If he WAS God (as most post-Constantine Christians claim), why would he need to pray to ANYONE? God is the creator. He created the heavens, the Earth, the Universes, etc. Does he really need to PRAY to anyone? No! Jesus was not God. If he was, he wouldn't need to pray to anyone. Common sense. Jesus was the "paida" of God. "Paida" is the Greek word which can be translated as either SON or SERVANT. The Romans took a vote at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD and decided he was literally the son of God. Then combined this with the story of Horus and other pagan deities and decided he was the son and God at the same time. Most modern Christians are committing the worst kind of blasphemy and making excuses for it. Jesus would burn your churches to the ground and smash your idols if he was here. I kid you not. Jesus worshipped his creator, the heavenly father. He never asked to be worshipped. He was a loyal servant (paida) of God. The Romans converted you guys to THEIR religion. Wake up my brothers and sisters!!!!

^^^Bolded and underlined = epic truth.

 

[rusra02]

There are nearly ten thousand flavors of Christianity today. When we add to the mix the churches that did not survive to the present date, the number of churches are even higher. What criteria should a person use to determine the true church? I define the “true church” as a church that teaches an accurate teaching of Jesus Christ. If you know of such a church, please explain in detail why that church is the true church.

That is a very goof and important question. The one true religion would follow the Christ. Jesus said his true disciples can be identified by the love they have among themselves. I know of only one faith that practices (not just preaches) such love to all men. (John13:34,35)

 

[Katzpur]

That is a very goof and important question. The one true religion would follow the Christ. Jesus said his true disciples can be identified by the love they have among themselves. I know of only one faith that practices (not just preaches) such love to all men. (John13:34,35)

I agree with the fact that Jesus clarified how one would be able to recognize one of His disciples (by the love they showed for one another), but I'm not sure which is the "one faith that practices such love." If your answer would be "Christianity," would you be willing to accept as a Christian any person who sincerely believes himself to be a Christian? Or would you exclude some people based on doctrines you personally disagree with?

 

[sojourner]

Jesus PRAYED to God! If he WAS God (as most post-Constantine Christians claim), why would he need to pray to ANYONE? God is the creator. He created the heavens, the Earth, the Universes, etc. Does he really need to PRAY to anyone? No! Jesus was not God. If he was, he wouldn't need to pray to anyone. Common sense. Jesus was the "paida" of God. "Paida" is the Greek word which can be translated as either SON or SERVANT. The Romans took a vote at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD and decided he was literally the son of God. Then combined this with the story of Horus and other pagan deities and decided he was the son and God at the same time. Most modern Christians are committing the worst kind of blasphemy and making excuses for it. Jesus would burn your churches to the ground and smash your idols if he was here. I kid you not. Jesus worshipped his creator, the heavenly father. He never asked to be worshipped. He was a loyal servant (paida) of God. The Romans converted you guys to THEIR religion. Wake up my brothers and sisters!!!!

Jesus prayed to the Father, to be specific. Since Jesus was fully human, it was preferable for him to pray.

The "Romans" didn't "take a vote at Nicea." It was an ecumenical council. This has very, very little to do with the Romans. Get your facts straight.

 

[Domenic]

There are nearly ten thousand flavors of Christianity today. When we add to the mix the churches that did not survive to the present date, the number of churches are even higher. What criteria should a person use to determine the true church? I define the “true church” as a church that teaches an accurate teaching of Jesus Christ. If you know of such a church, please explain in detail why that church is the true church.

As to rule 8 this is my opinion

You ask very good questions. This is one of the best. It is a subject I have dealt with for many years.
Most religions claim they are the true religion, and all others are false. A few claim it does not matter which one you belong to, all roads lead to God. If you follow either of these examples, you will be more confused than you are now.
There is one thing that must be done, if you have not already. Prove the Bible to be the word of God. This is a simple matter. There are about 10,000 prophesies in the Bible that have come true. The few remaining can be trusted, because of the track record of those 10,000. Do not take my word for this…check it out yourself.
How to tell if a religion is true, or false: Build a check list of major false doctrines.
You can check with a clear study of the Bible if your list proves these, true, or false. Below are nine things on my list. If a religion has one or more of these, I believe them to be false.
Going to Heaven
Going to a Hell of fire.
God, and Jesus are the same person.
The tree in the Garden was not symbolic.
Cain, and Able are Adams children.
Jesus died on the cross.
Why Jesus had to die.
Jesus died for all of our sins.
The soul leave the body when the body dies.
Please do not take my word for this, but, I have found the above list to be false doctrines.
If a religion has one or more false major doctrines, they are not from God.
Also not in that list, religions who reject Jesus as Gods son, are false religions.
Here is an example. Hell fire:
Here are three scriptures on the condition of the dead, Hell fire: Read these scriptures,
Ec 9:5-10
Ps 146:3
Joh 11:11-14

 

[roger1440]

You ask very good questions. This is one of the best. It is a subject I have dealt with for many years.
Most religions claim they are the true religion, and all others are false. A few claim it does not matter which one you belong to, all roads lead to God. If you follow either of these examples, you will be more confused than you are now.
There is one thing that must be done, if you have not already. Prove the Bible to be the word of God. This is a simple matter. There are about 10,000 prophesies in the Bible that have come true. The few remaining can be trusted, because of the track record of those 10,000. Do not take my word for this…check it out yourself.
How to tell if a religion is true, or false: Build a check list of major false doctrines.
You can check with a clear study of the Bible if your list proves these, true, or false. Below are nine things on my list. If a religion has one or more of these, I believe them to be false.
Going to Heaven
Going to a Hell of fire.
God, and Jesus are the same person.
The tree in the Garden was not symbolic.
Cain, and Able are Adams children.
Jesus died on the cross.
Why Jesus had to die.
Jesus died for all of our sins.
The soul leave the body when the body dies.
Please do not take my word for this, but, I have found the above list to be false doctrines.
If a religion has one or more false major doctrines, they are not from God.
Also not in that list, religions who reject Jesus as Gods son, are false religions.
Here is an example. Hell fire:
Here are three scriptures on the condition of the dead, Hell fire: Read these scriptures,
Ec 9:5-10
Ps 146:3
Joh 11:11-14

Lets start with the first one. Why would, "Going to Heaven" be a "false doctrine" ?

 

[Domenic]

Lets start with the first one. Why would, "Going to Heaven" be a "false doctrine" ?

God never makes a plan that does not work. Never in the Bible, has God said, or done anything he had to backwater on.
He created Adam and Eve to be care takers of the earth for him. Satan tried to disrupt that purpose. What did God do? Did he sit back and say, “Well, that didn’t work, so I’ll change the plan, and have good people come to heaven, and burn the rest in a hell of fire forever.” Do you think Satan is more powerful than God, to where he can force God to change his plans?
Lets say Gods plan failed;
All good people go to heaven, and the rest are rolling around in fire for ever…who are these people?
Ps 37:11