What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

[Heyo]

Humanity spits on it's own Mother. Which is annoying.

I like another metaphor better: humanity ****s in it's own bed. Just like the yeast in the dough. And just like the yeast we don't stop until it kills us. Our collective ability to reason is on par with that of yeast. Makes us just the usual part of nature, nothing special.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Of what benefit are they to the natural world? How does that make this world a more verdant and biologically diverse planet?
Considering the huge negatives humanity has already bestowed upon the natural world? What possible use is humanity?
Humans are not needed by any life form. Worms matter, Cod matter, Ravens matter...they all have a place in the web of life, the food chains.
Humans are simply top tier consumers. They do not benefit the world in life or death. They are entirely expendable to the planetary ecosystem. Nothing would miss them or depends on them, no food chains would be disaffected. Apart from that of domesticated species, maybe. If all humans died tomorrow, all that would happen is that the natural order would recover and biodiversity loss would cease and the wild begin to regenerate. The 6th mass extinction would come to an abrupt end.

I don't mean to be nasty. I am not trying to be edgy, and I am not [Completely] insane. I am sorry humanity. You're just not what we're looking for. Speaking on behalf of the mute...

Probably time to post this then, even if it was about WW1 to come than what we might face:

There Will Come Soft Rains by Sara Teasdale

There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;

And frogs in the pools singing at night,
And wild plum-trees in tremulous white;

Robins will wear their feathery fire
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;

And not one will know of the war, not one
Will care at last when it is done.

Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree
If mankind perished utterly;

And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn,
Would scarcely know that we were gone.

And I am a bit pessimistic too, as to our abilities so as to survive as a species - given we seem to have a tendency to vote (for those who have such luxuries) for those who represent what we might individually want over what might be good for us all, and the tendencies of those relying on this to get into power (and often for their own benefit than ours). This besides all the divisions that tend to ensure we will never probably become a species of note but merely a prototype for such.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think of all the narratives that puts me off Christianity the most, it is the idea that humans are elevated above all other life forms.

That sure is a bit nasty. Although I would say this isn't really exclusive to christianity. It seems something which is pretty embedded in human psychology, like some sort of narcistic superiority complex.

The thing about christianity I despise most is the gigantic guilt trip. The idea that humans are "guilty" of the crime of being human and are in need of "saving" for that alone.


Like the Hitch once said: "created sick and commanded to be well"

It's like textbook con-man tactics.
First it tells you, without evidence, that you are "sick" and then conveniently provides the only "cure".


Always reminds me of that joke from the show Big Bang Theory where Bernadette works for this medical drug company and she says something along the lines of "Today I both invented AND cured desease X"

 

[Little Dragon]

Sure we do. We just make it easy for ourselves.

Farming and growing crops, are not the same as hunter gathering. There are very significant differences. Hugely significant. I hope I don't have to re iterate why again.

 

[Little Dragon]

When I took biology in school I'll never forget the teacher telling the class about the differences in animals that it's instinct in animals for self-preservation.

Odd. Humans display precisely the same instincts for self preservation. I can attest to that from personal experience. Seeing my grandmother clear a 2m gate by leaping over it with the agility of a Cat, when an angry Cow charged my granny, "trespassing" in her (the cow's) field.

 

[Left Coast]

Farming and growing crops, are not the same as hunter gathering. There are very significant differences. Hugely significant. I hope I don't have to re iterate why again.

Of course they're different. No one said otherwise. But we remain part of nature despite the invention of agriculture. And we remain predators in the sense that we kill and consume other animals for food.

I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.

 

[Little Dragon]

No, I think the ability not to reason is why we're destroying life on the planet.

If humans were still just eating nuts roots berries and leaves and scavenging the odd bit of meat from apex predators. As they used to. Then we wouldn't be having this disagreement. Humans wouldn't have the ability nor resources, to wreck the planet, with oil refineries and farms and mines and so on...

The ability to reason by itself is not enough to prevent ecological destruction and irreversible climatic changes.

If humans were not much more technologically advanced than the other animals they lived alongside, then they wouldn't be as great a danger to all life as they are now.

Therefore the rise of an intelligent tool using technological species, in this instance, has been a disaster for all other living things, except for perhaps Rats, whom have thrived with the advance of mankind. I do like Rats though. Good for them. At least some one is making use of the endemic spread of humanity across the globe.

Yes, if people collectively, could reason properly, then I am sure things would be different.
However Left Coast, time and time again, we discover as another poster has said, humans have the collective reasoning power on a par with that of Yeast.

 

[Little Dragon]

And we remain predators in the sense that we kill and consume other animals for food.

A non specialist omnivore that farms animals for meat.

 

[Little Dragon]

I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.

I am like a dog with a bone.

 

[Little Dragon]

But we remain part of nature despite the invention of agriculture.

Arguably yes. However becoming more and more removed from it.

I have heard some futurist type people saying things like "Its ok if we mess this planet up with nukes or otherwise, we can leave and find new worlds or live in space bound arcologies, sci fi style" that kind of comment, reveals the key issue.
Humans think only humans matter, everything else is just an expendable resource.

That's how Locusts think. Probably.

 

[Left Coast]

If humans were still just eating nuts roots berries and leaves and scavenging the odd bit of meat from apex predators. As they used to. Then we wouldn't be having this disagreement. Humans wouldn't have the ability nor resources, to wreck the planet, with oil refineries and farms and mines and so on...

You first, then.

 

[Little Dragon]

You first, then.

Oh I will get mine too.

 

[Little Dragon]

Always reminds me of that joke from the show Big Bang Theory where Bernadette works for this medical drug company and she says something along the lines of "Today I both invented AND cured desease X"

A cynical and accurate commentary on the way things work.

I have a similar mantra.

Technology is the cause of and solution to, all of our problems.

 

[Left Coast]

Oh I will get mine too.

I don't know what this means. If you implement your vision, you literally won't get yours, lol. You'll die around age 40 with no modern medical care and poor diet.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

A cynical and accurate commentary on the way things work.

I have a similar mantra.

Technology is the cause of and solution to, all of our problems.

Hahaha.... like that urban definition of "programmer":

Someone able to fix a problem that he himself caused in the first place

 

[Heyo]

Of course they're different. No one said otherwise. But we remain part of nature despite the invention of agriculture.

And we didn't even invent agriculture, just discovered it for ourselves. Leaf cutter ants had agriculture millions of years before us.

 

[Little Dragon]

I don't know what this means. If you implement your vision, you literally won't get yours, lol. You'll die around age 40 with no modern medical care and poor diet.

Implement my vision? A return to the wild, is impossible, barring the total collapse of human civilization and the loss of practically all knowledge.

It's a case of whether humanity self destructs one way or another, in which case, I will go down with you all too. Assuming I am still extant or instead humanity as a whole, recognizes the peril it is in, and the reasons why it is in peril, and acts upon what can be done about it, collectively. This is a major concern. A serious doubt, in my mind.

If all that can be overcome, and humanity realizes it's role now, outside of the natural order, is to simply not disturb and vandalize it, for the benefit of all, if a return to a state of relative innocence is closed to us (for now).

 

[Little Dragon]

And we didn't even invent agriculture, just discovered it for ourselves. Leaf cutter ants had agriculture millions of years before us.

Fungus farming. The way forward for humans too.

 

[Heyo]

Arguably yes. However becoming more and more removed from it.

I have heard some futurist type people saying things like "Its ok if we mess this planet up with nukes or otherwise, we can leave and find new worlds or live in space bound arcologies, sci fi style" that kind of comment, reveals the key issue.
Humans think only humans matter, everything else is just an expendable resource.

That's how Locusts think. Probably.

If we try to leave with that attitude, we won't get very far. A self reliant, sustainable space station doesn't have long term cycles or massive sinks. The water you drink there is your own **** from two weeks ago. Long term space faring is impossible without perfect recycling of everything.

 

[Little Dragon]

A self reliant, sustainable space station doesn't have long term cycles or massive sinks.

So many issues with that idea. Solvable. I am sure. Eventually, after much trial and error.