What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

[ChristineM]

If humanity could look beyond the short term. Then maybe. Humanity stands a chance. Time is running out I think. What goes around, comes around.

I am not without any faith, but it is sorely tested.

I hope we can look far enough ahead to see the **** storm we are making

 

[YoursTrue]

I give up. Stupid tribal mindless short sighted primitive neotenous talking chimps. (Humans)
What can any of us do, but look on in silent dismay and horror.
Still, may as well light a candle than sit in the darkness and curse it. I was overly negative yesterday, sorry to vent. I was allowing emotion to cloud my judgement, once again. I know humanity can do better. That's what is so agonizing. Seeing the potential in great individuals, and then looking at the herd, looking at what happens when people group think. Ah to be alive in interesting times eh?

I'm not sure what you're giving up on. I'm kind of (not entirely) agreeing with you, so what are you giving up on? Mankind has proven itself incapable of making things in the world better. In fact, many people are seeing not only are we living in perilous times but politics aren't going to solve the problems.

 

[YoursTrue]

What preys upon humans?

What do humans prey upon in the world to prevent the prey species from overpopulating and starving itself, to maintain ecological balance?

Humans are not part of the food chain. They are merely at the top of it. They mostly exist by domesticating and enslaving other creatures and eating them. To the detriment of everything else that lives.

As I said, I'm not an expert on these things, but at the beginning, not preaching here, but mankind was to eat only vegetation. According to what the instructions were given to Adam in the Bible. Doesn't matter if a person believes it, but that's what it says. I'm not a vegetarian, but I went to a lecture a few years ago by a renowned vegetarian, and doctor, and it did reinforce my thinking about eating fruits and veggies, although yes, I do eat flesh food also but not a real lot of it. OK, I eat pizza with cheese and sausage on it once in a while. Although cheese is a natural product of whatever and doesn't have to harm them. Again, lest I be condemned for preaching, I'll stop there. (Have a good one...)

 

[YoursTrue]

Most ecosystems remain in dynamic equilibrium, with only invasive species causing serious upset to the ecological systems they invade, often brought with humans, when they colonized new areas of the world. Such as Cats, which have decimated hundreds if not thousands of native bird species and other fauna in many places across the globe. As much as I like Cats, they are a menace to anything smaller than them. Again, human fault, not domestic cat fault.

Yes, I too love cats and felt sorry for a couple of cats roaming around a fast food place today. They were cute but I can't take them home. Meantime, from what I understand cats now at least cannot survive on non-flesh foods alone. That is what I understand, not sure exactly how true that is, nevertheless yes, I hope and expect God (yes, God) will solve this problem. Since I love cats so much, well -- if they go -- I'll put up with it though. Hopefully their requirements will change, but anyway they don't live that long.

 

[Left Coast]

Humans are not apex predators. They are agriculturalists. They raise domesticated livestock and domesticated plants for consumption.

In doing so they destroy vast swathes of natural habitat and obliterate thousands of species. Plant Fungal and Animal.

They do not for example, live like the Wolf, an apex predator hunting prey, within a natural ecosystem, and keeping the prey population at a healthy level, necessary balance for both the prey itself and the plants they feed on. The natural dynamic between predators prey and producers.

You're making an assumption here that predators all maintain some magical balance with their populations of prey. They don't. Many species have gone extinct because they've been predated out of existence. The fact that we've domesticated much of our prey doesn't mean we're any less predators. It means we've simply made the process of predation easier for ourselves.

 

[Left Coast]

What else could possibly matter? In the grand scheme of things? Humans are just one more species. They are not the be all and end all. Only a humanist, ie someone who thinks the human condition is the be all and end all, would think that. Which I may say is very anthrocentric and would not be a sentiment shared by 99.999999% of life on Earth, should it be able to express sentiment.

I certainly do not share that sentiment.

Ironically, it seems to be you who is separating humans from the rest of nature in your mind. But humans are as much a part of nature as anything else. The difference is we have the ability to reason so that we can make conscious choices about how we affect other natural populations.

Without science, how would we measure our effect on biodiversity? Without ethics, how would we even have this conversation about what we ought to do and what our responsibilities to the planet are?

 

[Little Dragon]

You're making an assumption here that predators all maintain some magical balance with their populations of prey. They don't. Many species have gone extinct because they've been predated out of existence.

Predators and prey​

In a healthy, balanced ecosystem the numbers of predators and prey remain fairly constant. They can go up and down during each year but generally over the years, these increases and decreases remain fairly constant.
If numbers of either predators or prey increase or decrease it could be due to a change in the abiotic factors, like water or sunlight, or biotic factors, like a new predator or pathogen. This would result in a less healthy, unbalanced ecosystem.

Predator-prey cycles​

The numbers of predators and prey for certain ecosystems such as the Canadian Lynx (wild cat) and hare have been recorded over many years and found to change in a regular cycle. A similar example is shown in the graph below and shows characteristic repeating patterns called predator-prey cycles.

The graph shows that there is almost always more prey than predators. It also shows the following patterns:

1. The number of predators increases when there is more prey.
2. The number of prey reduces when there are more predators.
3. The number of predators reduces when there is less prey.

Predators and prey - How are populations affected by conditions in an ecosystem? - GCSE Biology (Single Science) Revision - OCR 21st Century - BBC Bitesize

Revise the abiotic & biotic factors affecting the abundance of organisms for OCR 21st Century with BBC Bitesize.

www.bbc.co.uk

There is nothing especially magical about it. It is the natural self regulating mechanism by which healthy ecosystems function.

 

[Little Dragon]

The difference is we have the ability to reason so that we can make conscious choices about how we affect other natural populations.

Not really working out well is it? Considering. Having the ability to reason is quite literally part of the reason humanity is destroying life on this planet.

 

[Little Dragon]

But humans are as much a part of nature as anything else.

I strongly disagree. Humans have extricated themselves from the natural order. They no longer hunt or be hunted. They are now alter the ecology and the geography and the climate, even, to satisfy their own needs. With total disregard for the consequences. Well, if humanity wants the role of God, then it will have to take the responsibility of a God.

 

[Little Dragon]

OK, I eat pizza with cheese and sausage on it once in a while. Although cheese is a natural product of whatever and doesn't have to harm them. Again, lest I be condemned for preaching, I'll stop there.

I would never condemn anyone for advocating less meat eating. There is nothing about that position which isn't very well supported by various excellent factual considerations.

 

[Little Dragon]

Ironically, it seems to be you who is separating humans from the rest of nature in your mind.

I am quite transparent about that. At least we are on the same page here.

Humans are not a part of nature, or rather, the natural order. They used to be. Not anymore. Only a few little isolated tribes here and there. Not really part of the problem. They, are far closer to the natural order, than the likes of us.

They set a good example. In many ways.

 

[Viker]

What convinces me to accept evolutionary theory is the plethora of evidence that follows. And that I have no reason to refute evolution in the first place.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Viker]

I am quite transparent about that. At least we are on the same page here.

Humans are not a part of nature, or rather, the natural order. They used to be. Not anymore. Only a few little isolated tribes here and there. Not really part of the problem. They, are far closer to the natural order, than the likes of us.

They set a good example. In many ways.

We're still part of nature. We're just more like damaged little pieces after a major disaster. We've deliberately or perhaps *obliviously forgotten our natural connection.

*I meant obliviously not obviously. Spell correct sometimes sucks.

 

[Little Dragon]

We're still part of nature. We're just more like damaged little pieces after a major disaster. We've deliberately or perhaps obviously forgotten our natural connection.

Humanity spits on it's own Mother. Which is annoying.

 

[Little Dragon]

We've deliberately or perhaps obviously forgotten our natural connection.

I agree. A disaster for all life on Earth.

 

[Viker]

I agree. A disaster for all life on Earth.

Civilization may, one day, be considered one the world's worst disasters. If descendants exist in the future, that is. Hopefully they have found a better way and safe life.

 

[Left Coast]

Predators and prey​

In a healthy, balanced ecosystem the numbers of predators and prey remain fairly constant. They can go up and down during each year but generally over the years, these increases and decreases remain fairly constant.
If numbers of either predators or prey increase or decrease it could be due to a change in the abiotic factors, like water or sunlight, or biotic factors, like a new predator or pathogen. This would result in a less healthy, unbalanced ecosystem.

Predator-prey cycles​

The numbers of predators and prey for certain ecosystems such as the Canadian Lynx (wild cat) and hare have been recorded over many years and found to change in a regular cycle. A similar example is shown in the graph below and shows characteristic repeating patterns called predator-prey cycles.

The graph shows that there is almost always more prey than predators. It also shows the following patterns:

1. The number of predators increases when there is more prey.
2. The number of prey reduces when there are more predators.
3. The number of predators reduces when there is less prey.

Predators and prey - How are populations affected by conditions in an ecosystem? - GCSE Biology (Single Science) Revision - OCR 21st Century - BBC Bitesize

Revise the abiotic & biotic factors affecting the abundance of organisms for OCR 21st Century with BBC Bitesize.

www.bbc.co.uk

There is nothing especially magical about it. It is the natural self regulating mechanism by which healthy ecosystems function.

This makes an assumption that ecosystems are naturally "healthy" in perfect balance. The achievement of those balanced systems requires eons of failure of unbalanced systems.

 

[Left Coast]

Not really working out well is it? Considering. Having the ability to reason is quite literally part of the reason humanity is destroying life on this planet.

No, I think the ability not to reason is why we're destroying life on the planet.

 

[Left Coast]

I strongly disagree. Humans have extricated themselves from the natural order. They no longer hunt or be hunted.

Sure we do. We just make it easy for ourselves.

 

[YoursTrue]

Not really working out well is it? Considering. Having the ability to reason is quite literally part of the reason humanity is destroying life on this planet.

Well now, you bring up an interesting point here because -- here's what "I" believe -- animals of the upper species such as cats, buffalo, lions, dogs, etc. ok chimpanzees have ability to reason (I'm saying unlike fungi and but limited in the sense anyway.) Not like humans who can invent telescopes and microscopes, etc.
When I took biology in school I'll never forget the teacher telling the class about the differences in animals that it's instinct in animals for self-preservation. He seemed to make the difference between animals and humans but there was no discussion at all about a "superpower" having anything to do with these things. As I have often said, I virtually believed anything I was taught in science (especially about evolution) because that was the only gauge I had. Until -- but I won't go into that because everyone's experience is different anyway.