What deity were the Pharisees worshipping, when Jesus said, they worshipped Satan?

[Desert Snake]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

Any ideas welcome

 

[Spiderman]

Some (not all) were allegedly giving God false worship. So they were not worshipping a false God, but the way they went about it was self-righteous, proud, hypocritical, and selfish, like ISIS, so they were allegedly pleasing Satan, not God.

Technically ISIS worships God, they just do it in a way that p*sses God off and pleases Satan, making Satan their Father! But the Pharisees weren't commiting large-scale atrocities like ISIS of course.

But who knows, if @Rival is correct in her assessment that Jesus was full of s***, disregard everything I said!

 

[Phantasman]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

Any ideas welcome

He didn't say Satan. He said that they followed the devil as a father. Jesus did as best he could to reveal the true God, his Father. The Hebrews taught that God was a murderer of men, and Jesus taught that God was love of men and never murdered any man.

Why would a god tell man not to murder, then murder himself? Same with lies. The Jews were being lied to by the god of flesh. Jesus taught of the God of spirit. This is the sword he brought. To separate the two.

 

[Tumah]

Maybe wait until we all leave the forum before you start talking about us like this?

 

[Valjean]

Perhaps it was conventionalism they were worshiping; propriety, 'the law'. Rather than loving God and their neighbors they were worshiping rules and judging their neighbors, in loco Deo.

 

[Dawnofhope]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

Any ideas welcome

The Jewish people worship the God of Abraham. Obviously Jesus was critical with aspects of Judaism nearly two thousand years ago. To explore more thoroughly the exact nature and context of those criticisms is not a rabbit hole I have any inclination to go down.

 

[Rival]

I'm so sick of this. The next person who starts spreading this new testament rubbish about Pharisees and Pharisaic (Rabbinic) Judaism is going on ignore. This nonsense is ingrained in their faith. I guess if they didn't believe it they couldn't be Christians.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm so sick of this. The next person who starts spreading this new testament rubbish about Pharisees and Pharisaic (Rabbinic) Judaism is going straight on ignore. I've given up trying to correct their nonsense. It's ingrained in their faith.

I was just trying to play "devils advocate" and see why Jesus would theoretically say that about some Religious people and the reasons he allegedly gave for it.

Whether he actually said those things, or gave those reasons, I don't know. If he said those things, was he making a proper and correct judgement? I don't know. Just playing devils advocate.

 

[Rival]

I was just trying to play "devils advocate" and see why Jesus would theoretically say that about some Religious people and the reasons he allegedly gave for it.

Whether he actually said those things, or gave those reasons, I don't know. If he said those things, was he making a proper and correct judgement? I don't know. Just playing devils advocate.

Jesus never said those things. The superbly anti-Semitic author of John's Gospel said those things after the Christian faction became its own faith and the Jews rightly rejected them, and after Paul had written his 'the law is a curse' nonsense.

 

[Spiderman]

It's a silly title of a thread when Pharisees are accused of worshipping a false Deity.

They worshipped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Duh!

 

[Rival]

Perhaps it was conventionalism they were worshiping; propriety, 'the law'. Rather than loving God and their neighbors they were worshiping rules and judging their neighbors, in loco Deo.

Except they weren't. This is just what the Christian scripture would have ignorant people believe.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm so sick of this. The next person who starts spreading this new testament rubbish about Pharisees and Pharisaic (Rabbinic) Judaism is going on ignore. This nonsense is ingrained in their faith. I guess if they didn't believe it they couldn't be Christians.

 

[Phantasman]

Except they weren't. This is just what the Christian scripture would have ignorant people believe.

I see the Christians and those who called themselves Christians. The word Christ means anointed by Spirit (capital S). Once anointed, the love prevents man from murder, lies, etc. It's spiritual. Obviously the Jews that had Christ killed, had the disciples killed, just didn't get the message. This is true of Constantine and the priests of his new religion, as well. Murdering man was of the OT god, not the Father Jesus taught of. Some loved their enemies, and some killed their enemies. This is the true ignorance, IMO.

Some see it, some don't.

 

[Thief]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

Any ideas welcome

If you use the word adversary synonymous to satan.....

the Carpenter's pointed finger is aimed at ......you

 

[Rational Agnostic]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

Any ideas welcome

Maybe Peter? He called Peter Satan.

 

[Thief]

Riddle me this batman, the carpenter is pointing at me?

as He did with Peter......

the Carpenter would say.....you are with Me.....or against Me

an event came in His ministry....the chosen disciples were upset
someone was performing miracles and preaching as if chosen

They said to Him.....go and forbid him
he is not one of us

and the Carpenter replied.....Let him be
he is not against us
and therefore with us

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

He was trolling them. Right now I'm more interested in the epiphany I had recently that Yah(weh), Ba'al, and El were represented by bulls and that means the worshipers of the Golden Calf were actually worshiping the God who let them out of Egypt and were STILL killed off.

So they were not worshipping a false God, but the way they went about it was self-righteous, proud, hypocritical, and selfish, like ISIS, so they were allegedly pleasing Satan, not God.

What they did paled in comparison to having an entire compound that practically killed and burned animals 24/7 with lots of gold decorations including bulls. They were being grateful and yet God continued to argue they were being ungrateful just so He'd have an excuse to kill off the entire generation save one or two guys.

Jesus taught that God was love of men and never murdered any man

Jesus still thinks people should go to hell for calling other people fools (and forgets he did just that, whoops). That's kind of a petty reason to be sent there, isn't it?

Why would a god tell man not to murder, then murder himself? Same with lies.

Because the authors are bad at writing and have no concept of consistent characterization.

Perhaps it was conventionalism they were worshiping; propriety, 'the law'. Rather than loving God and their neighbors they were worshiping rules and judging their neighbors, in loco Deo.

So, modern Christianity, then.

The word Christ means anointed by Spirit (capital S). Once anointed, the love prevents man from murder, lies, etc. It's spiritual.

The Spirit led Jesus to commit assault?

Obviously the Jews that had Christ killed, had the disciples killed, just didn't get the message.

Obviously Christians didn't get the memo that crucifixion means the Romans were the ones involved. He threw a tantrum at the Temple, incited riots, instigated general agitation, and was executed as a Roman traitor/religious terrorist. Paul is even worse, because when HE got busted, he threw out his Judaism like a hot potato and claimed Roman citizenship should keep him alive. But, then again, Jesus, the apostles, and Paul were always keen on saying we should die for our beliefs until angry mobs were chasing THEM.

Maybe Peter? He called Peter Satan

I amuse myself with the idea that Peter was always Satan in the gospels. No one can really portray Peter as an upstanding guy. He's an arrogant coward who's not nearly as epic as he likes to think he is. I think the authors put in the "get thee behind me, Satan" thing as a "key" to the "code", so to speak.

"But," I hear you saying, "Satan tempted Jesus prior to meeting Peter."

The apostles, who spent a lot of time with Jesus 24/7, couldn't recognize their master (didn't Jesus say his sheep would recognize him? hmmm) after just 3 days of being dead. I could see Peter, jealous that he's a fisherman nobody, went to Jesus multiple times to argue with him. It's only after Jesus calls him into the discipleship that Peter recognizes he can get away from his crappy life and be assured heaven and its keys, even though that's a lot of hubris to sift through right there. He even tries to do things on his own, like exorcise and walk on water, and he fails. It seems like only Jesus is the Golden Boy, and it ticks him off. Jesus is FINALLY arrested after Peter manipulates Judas into betraying Jesus (actually, I feel Jesus and Judas set this up and it went horribly wrong, but I am open to Peter being involved) and Peter desperately tries to distance himself THREE TIMES in the span of one night. After Judas dies somehow, Peter spreads word that not only was Judas a traitor, but he RIPPED THEM OFF, because THAT'S what Peter wants. Note that it was really not his call to be angry with the couple who didn't give him 100% of a house sale amount. But they refused to give him money and they ended up dead. When Simon asks Simon (does Simon exist, or is he just an attempt to create a caricature of Simon?) about money, we're expected to think Simon is angry because Simon thinks money brings the power, but then again, Simon has a history of being irritated about money.

 

[sojourner]

He didn't say Satan. He said that they followed the devil as a father. Jesus did as best he could to reveal the true God, his Father. The Hebrews taught that God was a murderer of men, and Jesus taught that God was love of men and never murdered any man.

Why would a god tell man not to murder, then murder himself? Same with lies. The Jews were being lied to by the god of flesh. Jesus taught of the God of spirit. This is the sword he brought. To separate the two.

I... just... ... Wow. Wow. Really? Srrsly?! Someone was absent the day they taught religion at religion school.

 

[sojourner]

I'm so sick of this. The next person who starts spreading this new testament rubbish about Pharisees and Pharisaic (Rabbinic) Judaism is going on ignore. This nonsense is ingrained in their faith. I guess if they didn't believe it they couldn't be Christians.

The Pharisees were neither evil nor particularly opposed to Jesus. In parts of the gospels, they are sympathetic to Jesus and his ministry.

 

[sojourner]

Except they weren't. This is just what the Christian scripture would have ignorant people believe.

Well, yeah, they really were. Your take on Paul is misguided.