What deity were the Pharisees worshipping, when Jesus said, they worshipped Satan?

[Rival]

Hope I’m making sense here.

You are. I'm not really debating this though because, well, there's nothing to debate. I disagree with Christianity on everything, so debating Paul's meaning with you seems sort of pointless, lol.

 

[sojourner]

You are. I'm not really debating this though because, well, there's nothing to debate. I disagree with Christianity on everything, so debating Paul's meaning with you seems sort of pointless, lol.

Fair enough.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What the heck does that have to do with the premise...speaking of which, if you wanted to be credible, you wouldn't post arbitrary stuff.


So...ignore it? You said you believe in jesus, but you dont answer verse questions?

Christianity has a long history of anti-semitism. I’m interested in the history of Judaism, including the time of Christ. If you sincerely want to have an informed discussion find a way of including the Jews who know much more about their culture than most of the Christians here.

 

[Jumi]

Maybe wait until we all leave the forum before you start talking about us like this?

I don't think many Christians know about the Pharisees, except the Bible descriptions of them.

 

[Tumah]

I don't think many Christians know about the Pharisees, except the Bible descriptions of them.

I guess that makes them particularly suited for commenting on us.

 

[Jumi]

I guess that makes them particularly suited for commenting on us.

The ones who find out more about them would be less likely to comment on you, I guess.

 

[Phantasman]

I... just... ... Wow. Wow. Really? Srrsly?! Someone was absent the day they taught religion at religion school.

If that's an answer to the question, it failed. Wanna try again?

 

[sojourner]

The Greek does have a word pause.
That is why the kjv version, does, as well. The greek is a word separation, the kjv, a notation mark separation. It isn't one statement, or sentence.

Are you going to answer the thread premise, or not?

There are no word “pauses” in the earliest Greek texts. All caps, no punctuation, all letters strung together. No chapter or verse notations.

 

[sojourner]

If that's an answer to the question, it failed. Wanna try again?

It’s a non-response to the utter tripe you posted. You wanna try again?

 

[Phantasman]

The Pharisees were neither evil nor particularly opposed to Jesus. In parts of the gospels, they are sympathetic to Jesus and his ministry.

They were ignorant of truth, which Jesus was. They believed their fathers over him. Jesus rebuked them for it. John 6 and 8. Moses didn't get his knowledge from Heaven. The early fathers of the Jews died. The Holy Spirit spoke on who to follow when Peter suggested building a Temple to Jesus, Moses and Isaiah. She said "this is my son, HEAR HIM" Matthew 17, Mark 9, Luke 9.

 

[Phantasman]

It’s a non-response to the utter tripe you posted. You wanna try again?

Sorry. I don't go in circles. Good day.

 

[sojourner]

They were ignorant of truth, which Jesus was. They believed their fathers over him. Jesus rebuked them for it. John 6 and 8. Moses didn't get his knowledge from Heaven. The early fathers of the Jews died. The Holy Spirit spoke on who to follow when Peter suggested building a Temple to Jesus, Moses and Isaiah. She said "this is my son, HEAR HIM" Matthew 17, Mark 9, Luke 9.

Some of Jesus’ disciples were Pharisees, and some were sympathetic to him, too. We can’t just paint with the broad strokes that suit us.

 

[sojourner]

The separation is a 'then Jesus said', separation. That is why the kjv version uses a notation, there, to separate the statements.

It’s a narrative. What else would the writer use to demarcate quotes from different people? This simply is not cogent to the argument.

 

[sojourner]

With different statements, it becomes an interpretation. Why have separate statements, there, if Jesus was actually calling Peter Satan? One statement, would make more sense.

I don’t think Jesus was calling Peter “Satan.” What theological reason would there be for having Jesus call Peter “Satan?” Remember, the theology of the writer drove the narrative. Such an appellation just doesn’t fit with Matthew’s theological thrust for his narrative.

The quote is lifted from Mark 8, where the appellation might make somewhat more sense, but I still don’t think that’s what Jesus is doing.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When Jesus said the Pharisees didn't know God, and they were worshipping Satan, what does that mean to you? Is it literal? Were they worshipping a different god?

Any ideas welcome

I would see that this is referring to their own selves. That they were worshiping a God of their own making.

The world of today has repeated this mistake.

Peace to all.

 

[sojourner]

I don't think that Jesus was calling Peter, Satan, either. What on earth are you arguing about, then.

Just pointing out holes in your argument that don’t help the cause.

 

[sojourner]

Where? The text doesn't infer that Jesus, calls Peter, Satan, directly, without interpretation as such, that is subjective.

Where is the flaw in the argument?

I can’t find the original post, for some reason. In it, you appear to argue for the inference.

 

[Phantasman]

Some of Jesus’ disciples were Pharisees, and some were sympathetic to him, too. We can’t just paint with the broad strokes that suit us.

Which disciple(s) was a Pharisee? Proof please.

Apostle Paul was, and disputed the Jewish religion.
Paul says:
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Paul was taught directly by the Holy Spirit, not by men.The Pharisee's were responsible for Pauls death and hated him. That's why James sent him to the Gentiles instead of the Jews.

 

[Phantasman]

I can’t find the original post, for some reason. In it, you appear to argue for the inference.

Peter was no rock (Matthew). Peter had the hardest time following Christ and called out many times. And was confrontagious against Paul and Mary (Magdeline).

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's nice. Again, you don't want to answer what are direct biblical verses.

Which ones do you want an answer for?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woes_of_the_Pharisees

Perhaps the most important verses are those recited from the Hebrew prophet Isaiah when Jesus delivers His final sermon, known as the Olivet discourse.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

Matthew 24:29

Krishna spoke of a similar phenomenon thousands of years beforehand:

Whenever there is a decline in righteousness and an upsurge in unrighteousness, then I manifest Myself (in personal form)

The stars, moon, and sun symbolise the conditions of religion. The stars of the heaven of divine understanding had fallen, The Light of God as seen through Moses and His prophets had become dimmed, the Jewish religious leadership could no longer be relied on as a source of God's unfailing guidance. Therefore He sent His 'Son' Jesus.

The Jews worship the God of Abraham and always have. They have never worshipped the Satan, anymore than the apostle Peter was Satan. The language is not to be taken literally but symbolically.