What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

[Deeje]

Paul is setting up a pretty false dichotomy here. He's essentially saying that unmarried religious people are more devoted and less distracted and that the opposite is true for wed folks. This is clearly not the case. Both groups are obviously concerned with worldly things as we need them to live. Likewise as I've said, virgins are going to be more distracted by their sexual energies. Women especially are prone to becoming depressed at a certain time when they become older and have no children, they start desperately wanting children. This can lead to all sorts of horrible outcomes. Men may act out violently or in unconventional ways. They may masturbate in secret or even do it in their sleep as women may do. Without partners people become depressed. Nothing can replace sexual-romantic love and having children. G-d made us this way and it's not a mistake or a personal failing. It's not that a certain few can live without these things and spend their whole lives in religious ivory towers - it's that they shouldn't have to, are not commanded to and will gain no benefit from this unnecessarily cruel lifestyle whatsoever. They can be just as close to The Eternal were they married, if not closer as they are happier, satisfied, likely have children and someone to love. This is how G-d made it.

Jewish males are also commanded to have at least two children, a boy and a girl.

Tehillah 127 says,

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

​

Paul (his Roman name) was Saul, a former Pharisee, educated at the feet of Gamaliel....he knew the law better than most. He was zealous for the Law his whole life and he persecuted the Christians as a duty to his God.

After an encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, Paul came to know that Jesus was the Messiah. He was confident from his knowledge of the scriptures that Messiah would set up his kingdom on earth. All of his Jewish disciples felt that it was immanent....The apostles asked him as he was ascending to heaven if he was going to establish his kingdom there and then? (Acts 1:6) No one knew when the kingdom was going to be established, because God had not told anyone....not even Jesus. (Matthew 23:36-39)

So, since they believed that the kingdom’s coming was immanent, the work that was assigned by Jesus was viewed as urgent.....lives were at stake. This is what motivated Paul to recommend singleness.....not that he had anything against marriage or sex, but because the work needed their full attention.

 

[pearl]

Examples please?

For a more complete study of an individual Jewish scholar, see Susannah Heschel, Abraham Geiger and the Jewish Jesus (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1998). Geiger (1810-1874) was an early leader of German Reform Judaism. His work on early Christianity was part of his larger effort to overcome the anti-Judaism that characterized German New Testament studies and to provide support for the struggle against the religious and cultural objections to Jewish civil equality. He also wanted to give Jews "an explanation of Christianity that would foster respect for it among Jews without encouraging abandonment of Judaism or conversion." By defining Jesus as a figure within Judaism rather than as a founder of a new religion.
https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/9483/1/fulltext.pdf
Joseph Klausner, Israel, and Jesus. - Free Online Library

 

[dybmh]

By defining Jesus as a figure within Judaism rather than as a founder of a new religion.

I can accept that Jesus existed historically in and among the Jewish landscape of the time. But John 14:6 and Matthew 28:18-19 describe a new religion. What do you think about these verses? From the verse from John, don't you think it's strange to ask a Jewish person to pray through someone or something. Maybe I'm making to much out of the word "through" ( δι in greek: link )? Also... for the verses in Matthew, this is very clear, isn't it. Jesus instructs "all nations to be baptized in the name of the son"? What??? the son???? Don't you think it's strange to ask a Jewish person to be baptized ( aka go to a mikveh ) in the name of the son ( υἱὸς in greek: link ) ?

@pcarl: I appreciate the links to the sources you provided. And I think they will be really interesting. However, they are long. And I hope that these two issues above are addressed in them somewhere. But, if you would please just tell me what you think. John 14:6 and Matthew 28:18-19 describe a new religion, right? That's not Judaism? What do you think?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

When Christians act like they know the Jesus Scriptures better than them. This is hubris.

The Tanakh says the Fake Rabbinic (Babylonian) Jews are under a Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28:28-29, Zechariah 12:4); where due to bad leadership from the Rabbi (Zechariah 11:15-17) our people have been badly educated until the Messiah's return (Ezekiel 34).

Moses prophesied the Source of reality would make the Gentiles to aggravate the Fake Jews (Deuteronomy 32:21), to test if they're so argumentative they would reject the Bible, in the process of going against the religions of other nations (Deuteronomy 12:30).

To say I've got 'hubris' as an archangel and Messiah sent by the Source of reality, and then to be so argumentative that Rabbinic Judaism/Zionism has rejected all corrections by prophets, has gone against all the world's religions, where they now are on the verge of causing World War 3 as they feel they are invincible, is shocking.

Actually, the New Testament letters (and Revelation) reiterate this notion that there are a false temple of Jews.

And I'm gonna have to agree with them.

Many Jews today are sympathetic to abortion. Despite numerous accounts of child sacrifice (same thing, repackaged as a medical procedure). Despite accounts of Pharaoh killing firstborn by the score. They don't seem to get thaf the lives of children are sacred.

Many Jews today are sympathetic to open borders. Despite numerous accounts of Jews getting invaded and/or exiled from their country. They don't seem to remember that this usually happened when other gods gained a foothold in their country. And they don't seem to get that there is a distinction between welcoming strangers (very much a duty under the law) and protecting the poor (what happens when you have too many strangers, the citizens of the country have to compete for resources with them).

And many Jews don't seem to understand that by denying Jesus, they are denying his words. But his words were mostly quotes from Hosea, Isaiah, and a few of the other later prophets. That is, you dismiss Jesus, you are basically turning your back on their teachings. And the Law, since he quotes Exodus and Deuteronomy too.

Jesus' References to Old Testament Scriptures • Jews for Jesus

So, yes, I can honestly say I don't know too much about the Tanakh. But it seems like a lot of Jews don't know it either.

 

[dybmh]

Sorry, I didn’t mean for that to sound the way it did.....

but there is just something about the Jewish mindset that goes beyond all reason to me.

Yes! beyond all reason is faith.

I have been reading up on the various Sabbath laws and their modern application and I can’t help but see an unquestioning acceptance of things that go so far beyond God’s commands, that I can’t understand how any person with any reasoning ability could follow through on things that were never commanded by God in the first place.

2 things on this: 1) On Shabbos, it's actually really easy, peaceful, and relaxing in a Torah Observant community. I'm guessing all those rules are special what-if scenarios. 2) Beautifying and Glorifying a Mitzvah is a good thing in Judaism ( link )

This is a unique Jewish mindset.....

Yes. Hiddur Mitzvah and Faith in God go beyond reason in Judaism. It's the Jewish mindset.

I have never encountered it to such an extreme degree with any other faith.

I don't know.... Have you ever asked a Daoist about breathing?

Isaiah spoke of those who taught the commands of men as though they were from God. (Isaiah 29:13) Jesus applied that scripture to the Pharisees (Matthew 15:7-9)......I can’t help but think he is right.

TBH, I'm not in a position to say you're wrong or that those verses in Matthew are wrong...

Can you provide me any real evidence that God intended his laws to be taken to such a degree without him ever directly telling the Jewish leadership to do any of it. These are the commands of men dressed up as the word of God.....how are they not?

I'll see what I can find. My first stop will be looking at Hiddur... if it has a source in Torah ( If i had to guess it would be in Psalms ) , then that seems to me to be the shortest path to get to a possible answer. Not **the** answer, but a possible answer.

 

[pearl]

@pcarl: I appreciate the links to the sources you provided. And I think they will be really interesting. However, they are long. And I hope that these two issues above are addressed in them somewhere. But, if you would please just tell me what you think. John 14:6 and Matthew 28:18-19 describe a new religion, right? That's not Judaism? What do you think?

It is critical to understand the NT within the context of its place in history and culture.
The stages in which the Gospels evolved. By the time these were penned the churches were established. Mt reflects the baptismal practice of his church.
John reflects the expulsion of Christians from the synagouge. When it comes to questioning Jesus Jewishness and faithfulness as a Jew, the concern is with the man Jesus, not the post resurrection faith.

 

[dybmh]

When it comes to questioning Jesus Jewishness and faithfulness as a Jew, the concern is with the man Jesus, not the post resurrection faith.

Just to be clear, I'm not questioning his Jewishness nor his faithfulness as a Jew. I don't think that the religion he was promoting ( what he was asking people to do ) was Jewish. It seems to me to be a new/different religion.

 

[pearl]

Just to be clear, I'm not questioning his Jewishness nor his faithfulness as a Jew. I don't think that the religion he was promoting ( what he was asking people to do ) was Jewish. It seems to me to be a new/different religion.

Again, one thing is the 'man' Jesus, referred to as the 'historical' Jesus of which there is no extant writing. Then there is the oral teaching of the Apostles, the oral tradition, and finally the Gospels, where the 'confession' of faith in Jesus is placed within a 'narrative', the final form of the Gospels. The question is 'when' did all of this become a separate religion. I do not believe it was within Jesus lifetime nor his intent.

 

[dybmh]

Again, one thing is the 'man' Jesus, referred to as the 'historical' Jesus of which there is no extant writing. Then there is the oral teaching of the Apostles, the oral tradition, and finally the Gospels, where the 'confession' of faith in Jesus is placed within a 'narrative', the final form of the Gospels. The question is 'when' did all of this become a separate religion. I do not believe it was within Jesus lifetime nor his intent.

The gospels weren't Jesus' intention? The sayings aren't his?

 

[rosends]

Actually, the New Testament letters (and Revelation) reiterate this notion that there are a false temple of Jews.

And I'm gonna have to agree with them.

Item number 1 that I find strange: anyone feeling that he or she has the right and or authority to decide that modern day Jews are in any sense false.

Many Jews today are sympathetic to abortion. Despite numerous accounts of child sacrifice (same thing, repackaged as a medical procedure). Despite accounts of Pharaoh killing firstborn by the score. They don't seem to get thaf the lives of children are sacred.

Number 2 -- speaking out of ignorance of Jewish law derived from the bible and, I'm pretty sure, conflating Jewish law with the ideas and political opinions of individual Jews.

Many Jews today are sympathetic to open borders. Despite numerous accounts of Jews getting invaded and/or exiled from their country. They don't seem to remember that this usually happened when other gods gained a foothold in their country. And they don't seem to get that there is a distinction between welcoming strangers (very much a duty under the law) and protecting the poor (what happens when you have too many strangers, the citizens of the country have to compete for resources with them).

And next, ignoring the Judaic notion of being kind to the stranger and the laws regarding making peace with neighbors, all textual in basis. And, again, confusing people's political views about secular law and the stance of a religion.

And many Jews don't seem to understand that by denying Jesus, they are denying his words. But his words were mostly quotes from Hosea, Isaiah, and a few of the other later prophets. That is, you dismiss Jesus, you are basically turning your back on their teachings. And the Law, since he quotes Exodus and Deuteronomy too.

Oh, look -- more strange stuff. Denying that someone existed, or had any relevance suddenly becomes denying the material he quoted? If David Koresh quoted the gospels, would denying Koresh mean denying the gospels?

So, yes, I can honestly say I don't know too much about the Tanakh. But it seems like a lot of Jews don't know it either.

Well, you certainly don't know much about Judaism. You should ask respectful questions in the DIR before you jump to all these conclusions.

 

[wizanda]

Actually, the New Testament letters (and Revelation) reiterate this notion that there are a false temple of Jews.

Revelation 3:9-12 is some of my own conversations on the net over the last 16 years; it is referring to Pharisaic Judaism still existing as Rabbinic Judaism, where they've reject the Tanakh in a replacement theology.

This is very clear from the text, as Yeshua said in Matthew 23:15 that they make children of Hell, so the Synagogue of satan is applicable to the Pharisees...

The idea that Christians follow the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon) is referenced in Revelation 2:9, 3:9 that the Church became corrupted by their teachings.

In my opinion.

 

[Spartan]

I can accept that Jesus existed historically in and among the Jewish landscape of the time. But John 14:6 and Matthew 28:18-19 describe a new religion. What do you think about these verses? From the verse from John, don't you think it's strange to ask a Jewish person to pray through someone or something. Maybe I'm making to much out of the word "through" ( δι in greek: link )? Also... for the verses in Matthew, this is very clear, isn't it. Jesus instructs "all nations to be baptized in the name of the son"? What??? the son???? Don't you think it's strange to ask a Jewish person to be baptized ( aka go to a mikveh ) in the name of the son ( υἱὸς in greek: link ) ?

@pcarl: I appreciate the links to the sources you provided. And I think they will be really interesting. However, they are long. And I hope that these two issues above are addressed in them somewhere. But, if you would please just tell me what you think. John 14:6 and Matthew 28:18-19 describe a new religion, right? That's not Judaism? What do you think?

The "Son" to be prayed to or worshiped is straight out of the Tanakh / Old Testament.

Fast forward to the Book of Daniel, which was written at a time when the 'son of man' phrase had a specific and known meaning. In the context of Daniel 7:13, where one "like a son of man" comes to the Ancient of Days (Almighty God) and is given dominion and sovereign power and universal worship of the sort that God alone possesses, the significance of Jesus' "son of man" usage cannot be overstated. It is functionally equivalent to saying that the one like a son of man is rightful heir and successor to the divine throne. "Son of man" is essentially the same as "Son of God" in this context.

 

[Spartan]

Jesus is the God in the Burning Bush. He later confirmed it in John 8:58 ("Before Abraham was, I am").

THE Angel of the Lord

In the Old Testament there is a very special 'angel,' although when you study this particular individual you will find that this really isn't an angel at all, but none other than the preincarnate Jesus Christ - the God of Israel.

An important thing to note in studying this issue is to understand what the Hebrew word 'malak' means. In some passages it means angel. In another passage it is translated 'messenger' (Malachi 3:1 - which is also a Messianic prophecy about the messenger of the covenant coming to HIS temple). But in CONTEXT, whenever you see this particular angel ("THE" Angel of the Lord - "har malak" - don't confuse with "an" angel) in scripture, he is either speaking or acting as God.

As the linked article below notes, "Angel in both Hebrew (malak) and Greek (aggelos or angelos) means a messenger, and Jesus as the Word of God (Jn 1:1; Re 19:13-note) is the ultimate Messenger sent from the Father with a message of the good news of God's covenant love for sinful mankind..."

As you will see in the study, it is none other than Jesus Christ as God in the Burning Bush (Exodus chapter 3).

"At the burning bush, it was THE “Angel of the Lord” Who appeared and Who called to Moses from the midst of the bush; Moses “hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God”.

Exodus 3:2, 3, 4, 5, 6 - And THE Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed...4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush & said, "Moses, Moses !" And he said, "Here I am." 5 Then He (the Angel of the LORD) said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground. 6 He said also, "I Am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (an allusion to God's covenant first with Abram and passed on to and through Isaac and Jacob - see Abrahamic Covenant) Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God (the Angel of the LORD)

TESTIMONIES FROM THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS

Justin Martyr - "Our Christ conversed with Moses out of the bush, in the appearance of fire. And Moses received great strength from Christ, who spake to him..."

Irenaeus - "The Scripture is full of the Son of God's appearing: sometimes to talk and eat with Abraham, at other times to instruct Noah about the measures of the ark; at another time to seek Adam; at another time to bring down judgment upon Sodom; then again, to direct Jacob in the way; and again, to converse with Moses out of the (burning) bush."

More scriptural examples in the link below.

Angel of the LORD | Precept Austin

 

[pearl]

The gospels weren't Jesus' intention? The sayings aren't his?

The Gospels are a product of the church in its testimonial belief in who the 'risen' Jesus is.

IX. This primitive instruction, which was at first passed on by word of mouth and then in writing--for it soon happened that many tried "to compile a narrative of the things"[21] which concerned the Lord Jesus--was committed to writing by the sacred authors in four Gospels for the benefit of the churches, with a method suited to the peculiar purpose which each (author) set for himself. From the many things handed down they selected some things, reduced others to a synthesis, (still) others they explicated as they kept in mind the situation of the churches. Indeed, from what they had received the sacred writers above all selected the things which were suited to the various situations of the faithful and to the purpose which they had in mind, and adapted their narration of them to the same situations and purpose. Since the meaning of a statement also depends on the sequence, the Evangelists, in passing on the words and deeds of our Saviour, explained these now in one context, now in another, depending on (their) usefulness to the readers. Consequently, let the exegete seek out the meaning intended by the Evangelist in narrating a saying or a deed in a certain way or in placing it in a certain context. For the truth of the story is not at all affected by the fact that the Evangelists relate the words and deeds of the Lord in a different order,[23] and express his sayings not literally but differently, while preserving (their) sense.[24] But why the Holy Spirit, who apportions individually to each one as He wills,[25] and who therefore undoubtedly also governed and ruled the minds of the holy (writers) in recalling what they were to write because of the pre-eminent authority which the books were to enjoy, permitted one to compile his narrative in this way, and another in that, anyone with pious diligence may seek the reason and with divine aid will be able to find it."[26]

excerpts 'Historical Truth of the Gospels'

 

[1213]

Are admitting you don’t already know what the requirements are? If so, then you can’t know that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled them?...

Ok, thanks. I have only one question, can you answer who is the Lord of David who shall sit at Yahweh’s right hand, as said here:

Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."
Ps. 110:1

 

[1213]

Gather the lost tribes back to Israel.

Be a King.

Build and partake in the 3rd Temple.

Everyone will know the G-d of Israel is the G-d and there will be no need to tell others of Him.

Peace in Israel.

Thanks, but could you also give the scriptures that says so?

 

[Rival]

Thanks, but could you also give the scriptures that says so?

2 Shmuel 7:10-13

And I will appoint a place for My people, for Israel, and I will plant them, and they will dwell in their own place, and be disturbed no more; and the wicked people shall not continue to afflict them as formerly.
And even from the day that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. And the Lord has told you that the Lord will make for you a house.
When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

This has not happened. Wicked people have been murdering Jewish people all throughout history.

Yeshayahu 2-4

And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and all the nations shall stream to it.
And many peoples shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount, to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge between the nations and reprove many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.

People still go to war and the Temple has not been re-established.

Yeshayahu 11-12-13

And He shall raise a banner to the nations, and He shall gather the lost of Israel, and the scattered ones of Judah He shall gather from the four corners of the earth.
And the envy of Ephraim shall cease, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, nor shall Judah vex Ephraim.

The lost tribes have not been gathered back to Israel.

Yeshahyahu 27-12-13

And it shall come to pass on that day, that the Lord shall gather from the flood of the river to the stream of Egypt, and you shall be gathered one by one, O children of Israel.
And it shall come to pass on that day, that a great shofar shall be sounded, and those lost in the land of Assyria and those exiled in the land of Egypt shall come and they shall prostrate themselves before the Lord on the holy mount in Jerusalem.

Not happened yet.

Yirmiyahu 31:33

And no longer shall one teach his neighbour or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.

Nothing about needing a middle-man and we don't live in an age where everyone knows G-d is G-d.

Yechezkel 37:26-28

And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever.
And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people.
And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever."

Temple still not built and the Nations don't all recognise G-d as G-d.

Micah 4:1-3

And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and peoples shall stream upon it.
And many nations shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount and to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.

People still go to war. The L-rd's House is not established.

Tzefanaiah 3:9-13

For then I will convert the peoples to a pure language that all of them call in the name of the Lord, to worship Him of one accord.
From the other side of the rivers of Cush, My supplicants, the community of My scattered ones-they shall bring Me an offering.
On that day you shall not be ashamed of all your deeds [with] which you rebelled against Me, for then I will remove from your midst those who rejoice in your pride, and you shall no longer continue to be haughty on My holy mount.
And I will leave over in your midst a humble and poor people, and they shall take shelter in the name of the Lord.
The remnant of Israel shall neither commit injustice nor speak lies; neither shall deceitful speech be found in their mouth, for they shall graze and lie down, with no one to cause them to shudder.

This hasn't happened either. None of it.

Zach 14:9-11

And the Lord shall become King over all the earth; on that day shall the Lord be one, and His name one.
The whole earth shall be changed to be like a plain, from the hill of Rimmon in the south of Jerusalem; but it [Jerusalem] will be elevated high and remain in its old place; from the gate of Benjamin to the place of the first gate, until the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananel until the king's wine-cellars.
And they shall dwell therein, and there shall be no more destruction; but Jerusalem shall dwell in safety.

Jerusalem is hardly dwelling in safety and polytheism is still a thing.

 

[rosends]

Ok, thanks. I have only one question, can you answer who is the Lord of David who shall sit at Yahweh’s right hand, as said here:

Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."
Ps. 110:1

Abraham. Check out the talmud Sanhedrin 108b, or just read the Rashi commentary on the verse. But beware your translation. The Hebrew word is adoni, my lord. There is no indicator of a capital letter.

 

[Deeje]

Abraham. Check out the talmud Sanhedrin 108b, or just read the Rashi commentary on the verse. But beware your translation. The Hebrew word is adoni, my lord. There is no indicator of a capital letter.

“Adonai”.....the nameless “lord”.....applied to humans as well as to the true God (who is not nameless). Why did the Jews stop using God’s unique name, when there is no command from him to do so....just the opposite in fact. (Exodus 3:13-15)

If Abraham is David’s “lord”, how does he sit at God’s right hand, and how does he begin to “rule in the midst of his enemies” after God has made his enemies his footstool? (Psalm 110:1-2)
Was Abraham ever promised rulership? The scriptures indicate that it was Abraham’s descendants who were to produce this one.

 

[Rival]

“Adonai”.....the nameless “lord”.....applied to humans as well as to the true God (who is not nameless). Why did the Jews stop using God’s unique name, when there is no command from him to do so....just the opposite in fact. (Exodus 3:13-15)

If Abraham is David’s “lord”, how does he sit at God’s right hand, and how does he begin to “rule in the midst of his enemies” after God has made his enemies his footstool? (Psalm 110:1-2)
Was Abraham ever promised rulership? The scriptures indicate that it was Abraham’s descendants who were to produce this one.

Adonai referrs to G-d.

Adoni referrs to a human master, boss &c.

The word used here is adoni.