What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

[Deeje]

Just to be clear, I'm not questioning his Jewishness nor his faithfulness as a Jew. I don't think that the religion he was promoting ( what he was asking people to do ) was Jewish. It seems to me to be a new/different religion.

It was never Jesus’ intention to create a new religion. According to Jeremiah, the Jews were to expect the implementation of a new covenant, that was NOT like the old one. (Jeremiah 31:31-34) This new covenant did not have a book of rigid laws and restrictions, but it was to be “written on hearts” and governed by a God-given, Bible trained conscience.

I think it is clear from Israel’s history that they found it difficult to obey their God, preferring instead to institute their own ideas in order to alter their worship according to their own standards. This, I believe explains the need for the Talmud and the somewhat ridiculous extremes in their practices. Jesus said that they were “straining out gnats, whilst gulping down camels”......if this was Jesus’ observation as a devout Jew, raised in the orthodox Jewish tradition, then the Jewish religious leaders were nit picking the minor things of the law, whilst ignoring more the important aspects of it. (Matthew 23:23-24) If you read Matthew 23 you will see that Jesus gave a detailed account of their conduct and why he found fault with it.

If a Jew can join the military to defend his political nation and kill a fellow Jew on the opposing side, but then observe rigid Sabbath restrictions, isn’t that an example of what Jesus said? Can a Jew kill his ‘brother’ because he holds a different political ideology and then practice the Sabbath restrictions with impunity? (Leviticus 19:18) isn’t that the “camel”, whilst so many of the extreme Sabbath details are the “gnats”?

God does not want ‘performance’, he wants obedience in balance with reason. Nothing God asked his people to do was ever ridiculous. This paints the Jewish God as a pedantic tyrant IMO.

 

[dybmh]

If a Jew can join the military to defend his political nation and kill a fellow Jew on the opposing side, but then observe rigid Sabbath restrictions, isn’t that an example of what Jesus said? Can a Jew kill his ‘brother’ because he holds a different political ideology and then practice the Sabbath restrictions with impunity? (Leviticus 19:18) isn’t that the “camel”, whilst so many of the extreme Sabbath details are the “gnats”?

This is a very good question. It's potentially far outside of my range intellectual fortitude to research. But, I'll see what I can do...

 

[Deeje]

Adonai referrs to G-d.

Adoni referrs to a human master, boss &c.

The word used here is adoni.

There should never have been a need to differentiate between “Lords” in the scriptures. If the Jews had left God’s name in their utterance instead of the tetragrammaton just being seen in the text but never pronounced, much of the English Bible translations would not be so ambiguous. Especially texts like Psalms110:1-2
God’s name is unique and there was never a command from him to cease uttering it......just the opposite. (Exodus 3:13-15 Tanah)

• “In his book Synonyms of the Old Testament, Second Edition, 1897, Robert Baker Girdlestone, late principal of Wycliffe Hall, Oxford, made this comment about the use of the divine name in the so-called New Testament. The statement was made before manuscript evidence came to light showing that the Greek Septuagint originally contained the name Jehovah. Girdlestone said: “If that [Septuagint] version had retained the word [Jehovah], or had even used one Greek word for Jehovah and another for Adonai, such usage would doubtless have been retained in the discourses and arguments of the N. T. [New Testament]. Thus our Lord, in quoting the 110th Psalm, instead of saying, ‘The Lord said unto my Lord,’ might have said, ‘Jehovah said unto Adoni.’” Girdlestone goes on to comment on the challenge of determining when the divine name should appear in the New Testament text: “Supposing a Christian scholar were engaged in translating the Greek Testament into Hebrew, he would have to consider, each time the word Κύριος [Kyʹri·os] occurred, whether there was anything in the context to indicate its true Hebrew representative; and this is the difficulty which would arise in translating the N. T. [New Testament] into all languages if the title Jehovah had been allowed to stand in the [Greek Septuagint translation of the] O. T. [Old Testament]. The Hebrew Scriptures would be a guide in many passages: thus, wherever the expression ‘the angel of the Lord’ occurs, we know that the word Lord represents Jehovah; a similar conclusion as to the expression ‘the word of the Lord’ would be arrived at, if the precedent set by the O. T. were followed; so also in the case of the title ‘the Lord of Hosts.’ Wherever, on the contrary, the expression ‘My Lord’ or ‘Our Lord’ occurs, we should know that the word Jehovah would be inadmissible, and Adonai or Adoni would have to be used. But many passages would remain for which no rules could be framed.” As seen in the following, a number of Bible translators have decided to use the divine name in this verse. Some use the Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton; others use such forms as Yahweh, YAHVAH, or YHWH.”
  
  C3 Verses Where the Divine Name Does Not Appear as Part of Direct or Indirect Quotations in the Book of 1 Corinthians — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Rival]

There should never have been a need to differentiate between “Lords” in the scriptures. If the Jews had left God’s name in their utterance instead of the tetragrammaton just being seen in the text but never pronounced, much of the English Bible translations would not be so ambiguous. Especially texts like Psalms110:1-2
God’s name is unique and there was never a command from him to cease uttering it......just the opposite. (Exodus 3:13-15 Tanah)

• “In his book Synonyms of the Old Testament, Second Edition, 1897, Robert Baker Girdlestone, late principal of Wycliffe Hall, Oxford, made this comment about the use of the divine name in the so-called New Testament. The statement was made before manuscript evidence came to light showing that the Greek Septuagint originally contained the name Jehovah. Girdlestone said: “If that [Septuagint] version had retained the word [Jehovah], or had even used one Greek word for Jehovah and another for Adonai, such usage would doubtless have been retained in the discourses and arguments of the N. T. [New Testament]. Thus our Lord, in quoting the 110th Psalm, instead of saying, ‘The Lord said unto my Lord,’ might have said, ‘Jehovah said unto Adoni.’” Girdlestone goes on to comment on the challenge of determining when the divine name should appear in the New Testament text: “Supposing a Christian scholar were engaged in translating the Greek Testament into Hebrew, he would have to consider, each time the word Κύριος [Kyʹri·os] occurred, whether there was anything in the context to indicate its true Hebrew representative; and this is the difficulty which would arise in translating the N. T. [New Testament] into all languages if the title Jehovah had been allowed to stand in the [Greek Septuagint translation of the] O. T. [Old Testament]. The Hebrew Scriptures would be a guide in many passages: thus, wherever the expression ‘the angel of the Lord’ occurs, we know that the word Lord represents Jehovah; a similar conclusion as to the expression ‘the word of the Lord’ would be arrived at, if the precedent set by the O. T. were followed; so also in the case of the title ‘the Lord of Hosts.’ Wherever, on the contrary, the expression ‘My Lord’ or ‘Our Lord’ occurs, we should know that the word Jehovah would be inadmissible, and Adonai or Adoni would have to be used. But many passages would remain for which no rules could be framed.” As seen in the following, a number of Bible translators have decided to use the divine name in this verse. Some use the Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton; others use such forms as Yahweh, YAHVAH, or YHWH.”
  
  C3 Verses Where the Divine Name Does Not Appear as Part of Direct or Indirect Quotations in the Book of 1 Corinthians — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Whatever your opinion, the fact remains that adoni is referring to a human.

 

[rosends]

“Adonai”.....the nameless “lord”.....applied to humans as well as to the true God (who is not nameless). Why did the Jews stop using God’s unique name, when there is no command from him to do so....just the opposite in fact. (Exodus 3:13-15)

If Abraham is David’s “lord”, how does he sit at God’s right hand, and how does he begin to “rule in the midst of his enemies” after God has made his enemies his footstool? (Psalm 110:1-2)
Was Abraham ever promised rulership? The scriptures indicate that it was Abraham’s descendants who were to produce this one.

I'm not sure what your concern is here. The verse uses the following words:
לְדָוִ֗ד מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר נְאֻ֤ם יְהוָ֨ה ׀ לַֽאדֹנִ֗י שֵׁ֥ב לִֽימִינִ֑י עַד־אָשִׁ֥ית אֹ֝יְבֶ֗יךָ הֲדֹ֣ם לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ

the fourth word is the 4-letter name of God. We pronounce it "ado-nai" (no break in the middle) to remind us that we don't know the correct pronunciation and aren't supposed to use it anyway. The vowel points there are transplanted from the Hebrew word "ado-nai" (though the leading vowel which is forced to be a chataf-patach is changed to a simple shva na). Take a look at Gen 15:2 and see how the word appears spelled out and compare it to the vowel points under the 4 letter name, which indicate that that use is to be pronounced differently.

The fifth word is the Hebrew word adoni which means "my master." Compare to Gen 23:6 where others refer to Abraham as adoni, my master.

I really would suggest that if you want to understand how Abraham sits or does anything else, you just start by reading the commentary of the Radak who makes it all perfectly clear. You might prefer the Rabbein Bahya, though. The mechilta understands the verse differently but the Midrash Tanchuma Buber, Lech Lecha 17:3 might also help you understand.

My point simply is that your questions are ones that were put to bed hundreds and thousands of years ago.

 

[Shaul]

Ok, thanks. I have only one question, can you answer who is the Lord of David who shall sit at Yahweh’s right hand, as said here:

Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."
Ps. 110:1

What it says is,
לְדָוִ֗ד מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר נְאֻ֚ם יְהֹוָ֨ה | לַֽאדֹנִ֗י שֵׁ֥ב לִֽימִינִ֑י עַד־אָשִׁ֥ית אֹֽ֜יְבֶ֗יךָ הֲדֹ֣ם לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ
Anyone who actually reads Hebrew can see that the master (not the Christian mistranslation as capital L “Lord”) transliterated as “l’adonee” is David himself. Everywhere else Christian Bible translate this as “to my master’ or “to my lord”(note lower case) but here alone it tries to make is as if it refers to G-d. But it doesn’t. “l’adonee” is never used when referring to HaShem. The reason Christians mistranslate it here is to have agree with the New Testament reference to it. But the New Testament (and if Jesus actually said it too) got it wrong. That’s one reason Jews who can read the original text don’t accept Christianity. Its proponents don’t even understand basic Hebrew.

 

[Deeje]

Whatever your opinion, the fact remains that adoni is referring to a human.

I never said otherwise. Jesus is David’s Lord because Messiah was 100% human. He died as a human. Messiah was prophesied to be a human being, of the tribe of Judah.....he is not God and never claimed to be.

Humans can’t kill God.

The point was about God’s name and how scripture has been twisted because the Jews failed to hold The divine name in honour for “all their generations” as they were commanded to do. What was the justification for losing it? Why do God’s people have no way to know how to say the name that God gave to them.....they did not give it to him. It was a sacred trust and they lost it....can you tell me why?

 

[Deeje]

I'm not sure what your concern is here. The verse uses the following words:
לְדָוִ֗ד מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר נְאֻ֤ם יְהוָ֨ה ׀ לַֽאדֹנִ֗י שֵׁ֥ב לִֽימִינִ֑י עַד־אָשִׁ֥ית אֹ֝יְבֶ֗יךָ הֲדֹ֣ם לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ

the fourth word is the 4-letter name of God. We pronounce it "ado-nai" (no break in the middle) to remind us that we don't know the correct pronunciation and aren't supposed to use it anyway.

Please explain this situation scripturally. Why don’t you know the correct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, and why aren’t you suppose to use it? Where is that written?

The vowel points there are transplanted from the Hebrew word "ado-nai" (though the leading vowel which is forced to be a chataf-patach is changed to a simple shva na). Take a look at Gen 15:2 and see how the word appears spelled out and compare it to the vowel points under the 4 letter name, which indicate that that use is to be pronounced differently.

But you don’t pronounce it at all. Wasn’t Moses told how to say the name that God gave to himself?

I really would suggest that if you want to understand how Abraham sits or does anything else, you just start by reading the commentary of the Radak who makes it all perfectly clear. You might prefer the Rabbein Bahya, though. The mechilta understands the verse differently but the Midrash Tanchuma Buber, Lech Lecha 17:3 might also help you understand.

LOL.... the last thing I want to do is pit one rabbi’s ideas against another......any wonder Jews are confused about what to believe....you pick a rabbi’s explanations based on what? What he “thinks” something means? Seriously?

That’s as bad as Christendom’s leaders misinterpreting scripture to make Jesus into God.....to promote belief in an immortal soul that God will torture forever in a fiery hell......or bless with heavenly bliss. I won’t find any of that in the Bible either.

My point simply is that your questions are ones that were put to bed hundreds and thousands of years ago.

Put to bed by whom?

If Jews can’t even come to solid conclusions about what to believe among themselves, then what does that do for those of us who are trying to understand your beliefs?

I am just getting more confused.

 

[Riders]

My sister goes to a Messianic church which claims to be Jewish and they believe in the Trinity. But I believe the Messianic churches which claim to be Jewish are odd, but they feel like they have a ministry to the Jews too which is odd.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Item number 1 that I find strange: anyone feeling that he or she has the right and or authority to decide that modern day Jews are in any sense false.

Number 2 -- speaking out of ignorance of Jewish law derived from the bible and, I'm pretty sure, conflating Jewish law with the ideas and political opinions of individual Jews.

And next, ignoring the Judaic notion of being kind to the stranger and the laws regarding making peace with neighbors, all textual in basis. And, again, confusing people's political views about secular law and the stance of a religion.

Oh, look -- more strange stuff. Denying that someone existed, or had any relevance suddenly becomes denying the material he quoted? If David Koresh quoted the gospels, would denying Koresh mean denying the gospels?

Well, you certainly don't know much about Judaism. You should ask respectful questions in the DIR before you jump to all these conclusions.

#1 The problem with this claim is that it's a promotion of a monopoly mindset. "We Jews own the Torah, and none of you can dispute it (even when parts of it OVERLAP the Bible)." Ummmm, has it ever occurred to you that the OT is not substantially different from the Hebrew Tanakh? While yes, many of the extra-biblical stuff (Rabbinic teachings, lore and myth like the story of Lilith, Pseudopigrapha, and Apocrypha) is not known and yes, I will admit that the average non-Jew is unlikely to "know better than you." But the claim that no Christian can understand the Bible, is tantamount to saying that "only accountants can do taxes, not those who have spent years studying tax law, because credentials trump everything else." You have no idea how this sounds.

Effectively, you are saying that devout Christians who study the Bible (pardon the expression) religiously automatically know less of the Bible than all Jews, including the non-observant simply because they are not Jewish. As a general rule like this, blanket statements including the word "all" are probably not so, but "some" knowing better than "some" Jews is accurate.

#2 I am not talking about the Jewish Law. Did you think I was? I mentioned specifically the false Jews, who don't understand the law. The law itself says, "And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the LORD." That is, nope to burning little kids. Same with the others.

#3 Dude, do me a far and read about 612 or 613 (one of those Laws is to "know God exists" and I'm not sure how hard that is to keep) commandments. They in fact, teach being kind to strangers and making peace with neighbors, yes. Now notice the difference in treatment with the Jew and non-Jew. Just as an example, the non-Jew is lent to at interest, while the Jew is not given any interest.

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Conclusion? Despite treating outsiders well, the Law is careful to remind Jews that they ARE outsiders not Jews.

In fact, Leviticus 20:23-24 tells Jews

Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I will drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them. Hence I have said to you, "You are to possess their land, and I Myself will give it to you to possess it, a land flowing with milk and honey " I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples.

And there are numerous numerous passages where the Jews turned away from the worship of God, and other gods came into the land. Or God allowed other peoples to conquer Israel (or both).

So these false Jews ignore all of this history, to go do exactly what their ancestors did wrong. Overemphasize the welcoming of strangers, and brush past all of this stuff.
How many times has Israel and Judah been conquered? | Yahoo Answers
Assyrians conquered Israel, so did the Babylonians, the Persians, the Romans, and I'm probably missing some because it seemed the recurring theme was "turn away from God, blindly welcome strangers and forget you're a separate ppl, get conquered."

#3 That's an interesting take on it, so I'll give up the argument there, except to say that we shouldn't listen to David Koresh anyway, for reasons having nothing to do with quoting scriptures. The point here, is that the modern Jews making this claim can ignore Jesus all they want, but they are simply following in the footsteps of Pharisees. The problem in all of this, is that there was a covenant with God, to keep the Law in return for protection. As Jesus was pointing out, the Jews of his day were focused on the small laws (his disciples not washing their hands, associating with tax collectors or prostitutes, and not obeying Sabbath), while utterly and completely ignoring the weightier laws about mercy, justice, and how even the Sabbath came second to healing and saving lives. You see, not only did they deny Jesus (forget Messiah, he was still essentially a prophet that they decided to declare false and call the cops (the Romans) on) but they "devoured widows and orphans" with their high amount of demanded alms.
Devouring Widow's Houses
By turning against mercy on the poor (who they declared "sinners" if they don't pay probably), they broke the covenant. And all who deny Jesus to favor what sketchy Rabbis say of him, are essentially saying "Yes, I agree that the priests had the right to do this." Nope. They didn't. Just as Christian priests don't get to demand the unemployed give their last penny to charity cuz "stop hoarding, you."

#4 Hmmmm, that's interesting. Only I have a Complete Jewish Bible, a Jerusalem Bible, have studied the minor prophets in college, have studied theology, have studied world religions, and have studied some on Jewish mysticism. I may not know everything about Judaism, but I apparently understand more than you do on specifically the points I talked about. In fact, you kinda proved my point about false Jews.

 

[dybmh]

I am just getting more confused.

Embrace it... it's part of the Jewish Mindset.

 

[Deeje]

What it says is,
לְדָוִ֗ד מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר נְאֻ֚ם יְהֹוָ֨ה | לַֽאדֹנִ֗י שֵׁ֥ב לִֽימִינִ֑י עַד־אָשִׁ֥ית אֹֽ֜יְבֶ֗יךָ הֲדֹ֣ם לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ
Anyone who actually reads Hebrew can see that the master (not the Christian mistranslation as capital L “Lord”) transliterated as “l’adonee” is David himself. Everywhere else Christian Bible translate this as “to my master’ or “to my lord”(note lower case) but here alone it tries to make is as if it refers to G-d. But it doesn’t. “l’adonee” is never used when referring to HaShem. The reason Christians mistranslate it here is to have agree with the New Testament reference to it. But the New Testament (and if Jesus actually said it too) got it wrong. That’s one reason Jews who can read the original text don’t accept Christianity. Its proponents don’t even understand basic Hebrew.

I am confused again....Psalm 110 is David speaking and saying that Yahweh said to his Master, sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as your footstool”.

To us David’s ‘Master’ is Jesus, a human son of God who was to give his life to atone for Adam’s sin so that his children could be redeemed, having been thrust into captivity to sin and death through no fault on their part. Adam was also a sinless son of God at his creation....so Adam’s life was lost due to his disobedience.....Jesus’ sinless life was given in exchange for Adam’s. It was the ransom price demanded for the release of many captives.

The ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ was prefigured in the blood sacrifices at the temple for the forgiveness of sins. Those sacrifices were temporary, but Christ’s sacrifice is permanent, doing away with the need for a physical temple and an earthly priesthood.

As for HaShem....I personally find it insulting to God to refer to him as "the name"...seriously....God's name is to be held in honor...it is not a mere title, but a description of his character described in Exodus 3:13-15....

13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:


14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:


15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"

The Lord God ( יְהֹוָ֞ה ) "will be" whatever he chooses to be in order for his will to be accomplished.....he always finishes what he starts (Isaiah 55:11) and his first purpose established in Genesis, (to have his earth filled with obedient humans who will take care of his creation) will come to fruition. But only those who accept the Messiah will benefit from his sacrifice.
What are Jews waiting for? Does it seem to you that God is blessing Israel? Or is it rather apparent that modern day Israel is just one of the blood spilling nations? Are the one described in Isaiah 2:2-4 already 'learning war no more'?

"2 And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and all the nations shall stream to it. בוְהָיָ֣ה | בְּאַֽחֲרִ֣ית הַיָּמִ֗ים נָכ֨וֹן יִֽהְיֶ֜ה הַ֚ר בֵּֽית־יְהֹוָה֙ בְּרֹ֣אשׁ הֶהָרִ֔ים וְנִשָּׂ֖א מִגְּבָע֑וֹת וְנָֽהֲר֥וּ אֵלָ֖יו כָּל־הַגּוֹיִֽם:


3 And many peoples shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount, to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. גוְהָֽלְכ֞וּ עַמִּ֣ים רַבִּ֗ים וְאָֽמְרוּ֙ לְכ֣וּ | וְנַֽעֲלֶ֣ה אֶל־הַר־יְהֹוָ֗ה אֶל־בֵּית֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֔ב וְיֹרֵ֙נוּ֙ מִדְּרָכָ֔יו וְנֵֽלְכָ֖ה בְּאֹֽרְחֹתָ֑יו כִּ֚י מִצִּיּוֹן֙ תֵּצֵ֣א תוֹרָ֔ה וּדְבַר־יְהֹוָ֖ה מִירֽוּשָׁלִָֽם:


4 And he shall judge between the nations and reprove many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. דוְשָׁפַט֙ בֵּ֣ין הַגּוֹיִ֔ם וְהוֹכִ֖יחַ לְעַמִּ֣ים רַבִּ֑ים וְכִתְּת֨וּ חַרְבוֹתָ֜ם לְאִתִּ֗ים וַֽחֲנִיתֽוֹתֵיהֶם֙ לְמַזְמֵר֔וֹת לֹֽא־יִשָּׂ֨א ג֚וֹי אֶל־גּוֹי֙ חֶ֔רֶב וְלֹֽא־יִלְמְד֥וּ ע֖וֹד מִלְחָמָֽה:

I believe that we are "at the end of the days" right now, and that Yahweh's house (the center of his worship) has been firmly established above all others, and that people of all nations are already streaming to it. These ones have already put down their weapons and have vowed never to learn war again. I believe that this is my global brotherhood. We see a heavenly Jerusalem, not a literal geographical location for humans to fight over.....we also see a heavenly Mt. Zion with a spiritual temple and a spiritual priesthood that are poised to take over rulership of this earth, once God has cleansed it of all wickedness, as he did in Noah's day. (Daniel 2:44)

We basically see what you see in the future, but through a completely different lens.

 

[Harel13]

As for HaShem....I personally find it insulting to God to refer to him as "the name"...seriously....God's name is to be held in honor...it is not a mere title, but a description of his character

Excellent. Guess what? I find it insulting that people throw around God's name like they're His best buds - without even being able to agree on the pronunciation!

 

[Harel13]

We basically see what you see in the future, but through a completely different lens.

Yeah, a fanfictional one...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That is, you dismiss Jesus, you are basically turning your back on... the Law,

Christian arrogance at its finest.

 

[Harel13]

This new covenant did not have a book of rigid laws and restrictions

We must be reading two different versions of Jeremiah, 'cause what I'm seeing is not a canceling of the laws, but placing them inside us in a way we won't forget them or transgress them.

 

[Deeje]

Excellent. Guess what? I find it insulting that people throw around God's name like they're His best buds - without even being able to agree on the pronunciation!

If I am reading scripture and in an English translation I see “the LORD” written in capital letters, I only have to check the Tanakh to see the Tetragrammaton there in the verse. I see no prohibition on the use of the divine name, as it was freely used by the Bible writers and I see none of them using God's name irreverently in the scriptures. Having Yahweh as a friend is a wonderful privilege...its called a relationship. God is not remote, nor is he a pedantic tyrant micro-managing everything we do....he is my best friend whom I talk to quite naturally all day long. He knows that I am not perfect and I try not to let my imperfections affect my relationship with him. Since Jesus was my ransomer, I have no fear of him as a punisher....but as my Sovereign and my God who provided me with the means to gain his forgiveness.

Since we have the account in Genesis ch9 about the confusing of man's language at the Tower of Babel, we can rest assured that God knows his name in any language. He gave his name to his humankind but the ones he trusted with it, let him down by not holding it in honor......Yahweh said...."This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation." (Exodus 3:15) Why did the Jews stop using it?

Yeah, a fanfictional one...

I guess we will see what is fact and what is fiction soon enough.....won't we?

We must be reading two different versions of Jeremiah, 'cause what I'm seeing is not a canceling of the laws, but placing them inside us in a way we won't forget them or transgress them.

Jeremiah 31:30-32.....This is what it says from the Tanakh........
"30 Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant. להִנֵּ֛ה יָמִ֥ים בָּאִ֖ים נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֑ה וְכָֽרַתִּ֗י אֶת־בֵּ֧ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֛ל וְאֶת־בֵּ֥ית יְהוּדָ֖ה בְּרִ֥ית חֲדָשָֽׁה:


31 Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord. לאלֹ֣א כַבְּרִ֗ית אֲשֶׁ֚ר כָּרַ֙תִּי֙ אֶת־אֲבוֹתָ֔ם בְּיוֹם֙ הֶֽחֱזִיקִ֣י בְיָדָ֔ם לְהֽוֹצִיאָ֖ם מֵאֶ֖רֶץ מִצְרָ֑יִם אֲשֶׁר־הֵ֜מָּה הֵפֵ֣רוּ אֶת־בְּרִיתִ֗י וְאָֽנֹכִ֛י בָּעַ֥לְתִּי בָ֖ם נְאֻם־יְהֹוָֽה:


32 For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My people. לבכִּ֣י זֹ֣את הַבְּרִ֡ית אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶכְרֹת֩ אֶת־בֵּ֨ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֜ל אַֽחֲרֵ֨י הַיָּמִ֚ים הָהֵם֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה נָתַ֚תִּי אֶת־תּֽוֹרָתִי֙ בְּקִרְבָּ֔ם וְעַל־לִבָּ֖ם אֶכְתֳּבֶ֑נָּה וְהָיִ֚יתִי לָהֶם֙ לֵֽאלֹהִ֔ים וְהֵ֖מָּה יִֽהְיוּ־לִ֥י"

The new covenant replaces the old one. It doesn't need a bunch of rules written down on parchment....this one is nothing like the old one, which Israel could not keep anyway.

Having God's Law within the heart requires the exercise of our God-given conscience when we read God's word, not having a bunch of men telling us what they think God meant.....

 

[Harel13]

Having...as a friend is a wonderful privilege

*Checking concordance...* Nope, does not say that God is your friend. God is your lord, God is your father, God is your creator...not your pal.

Why did the Jews stop using it?

@rosends answered your question, I believe.

I guess we will see what is fact and what is fiction soon enough.....won't we?

Yep. Be'ezrat Hashem.

The new covenant replaces the old one. It doesn't need a bunch of rules written down on parchment....this one is nothing like the old one, which Israel could not keep anyway.

Re-quoting the same verses over and over isn't proof. Where does it say that the "new covenant" cancels the law? It merely says that this same law will be inscribed in our hearts. Nothing about canceling it.

 

[Harel13]

@Deeje I've noticed that though you describe yourself as a JW, you use a version of the tetragram that's spelled completely differently than the J version, in particular it starting with a Y. Are you part of a JW splinter group called the YWs?

 

[rosends]

Please explain this situation scripturally. Why don’t you know the correct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, and why aren’t you suppose to use it? Where is that written?

If you checked out the links, you would see the history of the use of the name and how, after the destruction of the temple, it was decided that the name not be said and that the proper pronunciation was lost. It is all in the links. Here is more.

But you don’t pronounce it at all. Wasn’t Moses told how to say the name that God gave to himself?

Moses was instructed about many names. This doesn't change either the law or the historical development of the situation.

LOL.... the last thing I want to do is pit one rabbi’s ideas against another......any wonder Jews are confused about what to believe....you pick a rabbi’s explanations based on what? What he “thinks” something means? Seriously?

Who said Jews are confused? We don't say that. There are different levels of "choosing" a particular opinion. You should read the Ethics of the Fathers, chapter 1, and also this article. Somehow, with all the rules, we are not confused. In terms of deciphering verses, there are opinions, each with a scriptural basis or explanation. In this case, there is a medrash which confronts another medrash. You can research what the impact of medrash is in our day to day lives, and also, look up Shivim Panim. All this stuff is out there and has been for a while.

Put to bed by whom?

You know, Jews. The ones who live this every day. You are asking things that were dealt with almost 2000 years ago as if they are new concerns or should make us rethink who we are. But they aren't new.

If Jews can’t even come to solid conclusions about what to believe among themselves, then what does that do for those of us who are trying to understand your beliefs?

It makes you confused. But that doesn't bother us. There is an interesting statement in a central rabbinic commentary on the Genesis text (and it is echoed elsehwre) - the text can be interprete in a troubling way so the angels questioned God about why he allows a misreading. The answer is, effectively, haters gonna hate but that shouldn't change what the text needs to say to those who understand.

I am just getting more confused.

Do you start a thousand page book on page 500? If so, expect to be confused.