What do you do with missing evidence? Like the global dirth of mid Jurassic fossils

[We Never Know]

So why are you defending YEC talking points about the Flood?

I'm not defending anyone.
Evidence shows canyons can be cut fast. Canyon Lake Gorge

Evidence shows no great flood cut the grand canyon. I tried to explain how it couldn't have in my own words and understanding hoping you would understand it easier.

Anything else?

 

[Wandering Monk]

I'm not defending anyone.
Evidence shows canyons can be cut fast. Canyon Lake Gorge

Evidence shows no great flood cut the grand canyon. I tried to explain how it couldn't have in my own words and understanding hoping you would understand it easier.

Anything else?

Nah, I guess we're done.

 

[We Never Know]

Nah, I guess we're done.

Let me try it this way. To cut the grand canyon it took fast moving water and millions of years.

If you think the great flood cut it, think about this. 29,029 feet of water receding in roughly a year.

29,029÷365=79 feet of receding evenly across earth per day. That means once the water got low enough for rivers to run, they could only run 79 feet per day because that's all sea level dropped per day.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We know smaller canyons can be cut in days. For example in Texas a mile long, 100's of yard wide and 50 foot deep canyon was carved in 3 days which was exposed in 2002 when extensive flooding of the Guadalupe River led to a huge amount of water going over the spillway from Canyon Lake reservoir and removing the sediment from the gorge.

Canyon Lake Gorge - Wikipedia


However that is not evidence a great flood covered earth and cut the grand canyon. If I remember correctly the great flood rose in 40 days and drained in over a year. Covering the highest mountain(MT Everest is 29,029 feet). Water rising that fast(29,029÷40=725 feet per day) wouldn't carve the grand canyon and water receding down slowly (29,029÷365=79 feet per day) wouldn't carve the grand canyon. Of course that's my opinion.

What one needs to look at are the differences between Canyon Lake Gorge and the Grand Canyon. Very fast moving flood waters will erode more rapidly. But very fast moving waters will also move in straight lines If you look at this map of Canyon Lake Gorge, you might have to toggle to the satellite view:

Canyon Gorge, Canyon Lake Tx - Google My Maps

It is a very straight line. But if you look south of it you can see what looks like an old meander. I am trying to look into the geology of the area beyond a mere Wiki article, I will find more. But such features as embedded meanders, which follow a curved path, cannot be formed in the same way. Meanders are cut across in floods. Water likes to go straight when it is moving quickly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me try it this way. To cut the grand canyon it took fast moving water and millions of years.

If you think the great flood cut it, think about this. 29,029 feet of water receding in roughly a year.

29,029÷365=79 feet of receding evenly across earth per day. That means once the water got low enough for rivers to run, they could only run 79 feet per day because that's all sea level dropped per day.

Again, different erosion events will make different features. The Canyon Lake Gorge is very straight. One cannot forget that fact.

 

[ecco]

You know that specimen 10 years ago or so which in Latin meant Darin's Missing Link At Last !!
Well... most scientists think it was just an ancient lemur... guess the missing link is still missing.
see Ida – or Darwinius masillae,

Missing link controversy in mathematical terms...
Creationist: Give me a number between 0 and 1
Science: .5
Creationist: Give me a number between .5 and 1
Science: .75
Creationist: Give me a number between .75 and 1
Science: .83
Creationist: Give me a number between .83 and 1
Science: .895
Creationist: Give me a number between .895 and 1

The more they get, the more they want.

 

[ecco]

In any case the radio carbon dating is problematic. Cambrian diamonds have so much C14 in them it suggests they are thousands not millions of years old do to the half life of C14.

14C dating can not give a date of millions of years, so you have that wrong to begin with. Even samples with no 14C will be measured as having trace amounts because of error introduced by the equipment and testing methods. This is why 14C dating can only be used out to 50,000 years or so.

The two above quotes say a lot about the debate. whirlingmerc brings up a "problem" which has been repudiated and explained time and time again. whirlingmerc should know that. Yet whirlingmerc posts it anyway. One has to wonder why.

 

[We Never Know]

Again, different erosion events will make different features. The Canyon Lake Gorge is very straight. One cannot forget that fact.

And if Cayon Lake water only moved 79 foot per day, it wouldn't have cut it. That's the point.

 

[ecco]

Dating services usually ask the person paying what age they expect

A Premium Match Membership Costs as Low as $20.99 a Month. Even if we took away all of the deals above, Match would still be more reasonably priced than most other dating sites out there. The general cost of Match.com per month depends on which type of subscription you pick: $20.99/month for 12 months.
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If you were referring to Geological Dating services, please show some evidence for your assertion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And if Cayon Lake water only moved 79 foot per day, it wouldn't have cut it. That's the point.

The point is that that canyon is not evidence for a worldwide flood. It is a highly specific situation that is unlike the formation of such bodies as the Grand Canyon.

 

[ecco]

Plenty of evidence... the Grand Canyon all remnants of the flood or the post flood ice age

Please explain, in detail, how the Grand Canyon is evidence for The Flood.

Please explain, in detail, where the water receded to.

 

[We Never Know]

The point is that that canyon is not evidence for a worldwide flood. It is a highly specific situation that is unlike the formation of such bodies as the Grand Canyon.

Good grief! That's what I stated throughout. Read what I post or don't respond.

 

[We Never Know]

Which one in Texas?

Try the link I posted a few post up.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Good grief! That's what I stated throughout. Read what I post or don't respond.

You wrote a poorly worded response that was largely nonsensical. For example you conflated a vertical lowering of water level with I don't know what. The movement that created the gorge we have been discussing was mostly a horizontal movement of water. It takes very little vertical drop to cause it A 79 foot vertical drop in water level a day cannot be compared to a horizontal movement of water. It only relates to the potential energy available and that will vary in application on the surface enormously due to existing topography.

 

[We Never Know]

You wrote a poorly worded response that was largely nonsensical. For example you conflated a vertical lowering of water level with I don't know what. The movement that created the gorge we have been discussing was mostly a horizontal movement of water. It takes very little vertical drop to cause it A 79 foot vertical drop in water level a day cannot be compared to a horizontal movement of water. It only relates to the potential energy available and that will vary in application on the surface enormously due to existing topography.

Dude. Read, just to throw one out there, try my post 102. It's quite clear. If you don't understand it that's not my fault.

I'm getting real tired of you "ALWAYS" telling me I don't know, I don't understand, I didn't write clear, I didn't do whatever. If you don't understand ask, don't accuse.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The one in Texas cut through limestone. The grand canyon 3 main are limestone, sandstone and shale.

No. That's inaccurate. Sorry. You cannot cut through stone with water in a matter of days-- unless the stone is not solid, but is fractured, broken or an aggregate.

Else? NO CONCRETE SEWER PIPE WOULD LAST ANY TIME AT ALL.

Concrete is essentially limestone...

 

[We Never Know]

No. That's inaccurate. Sorry. You cannot cut through stone with water in a matter of days-- unless the stone is not solid, but is fractured, broken or an aggregate.

Else? NO CONCRETE SEWER PIPE WOULD LAST ANY TIME AT ALL.

Concrete is essentially limestone...

It's was and is limestone. How solid or whatever hasn't been discussed.

Your argument is with this story and the references for it, not me.

Significance for Geologists:

The 2002 flood at Canyon Lake and subsequent rapid formation of Canyon Lake Gorge presented a unique opportunity to study the geomorphological power of rapidly moving water and to better understand the process of canyon formation.
In their 2010 study, Michael Lamb of the California Institute of Technology and Mark Fonstad of Texas State Universitydocumented the dramatic transformation of a section of the Guadalupe River Valley landscape into a steep-walled bedrock canyon in just three days.[6]

The scientists documented the excavation of bedrock limestone to an average depth of over 20 feet and average width of 130–200 feet for a distance of over one mile.[7] The “plucking” and transport of massive boulders from the site resulted in the formation of several waterfalls, inner channels, and bedrock terraces. The abrasion of rock by sediment-loaded water sculpted walls and created plunge pools and teardrop-shaped “streamlined islands”.[8]

Although some of the geological formations present in the gorge are known to be associated with rapidly flowing flood water (such as the streamlined islands), other formations (such as the inner channels, knickpoints and terraces) have traditionally been interpreted through the “long ago and very slow” paradigm of geologic time in response to shifting climate or tectonic forcing.[6]

Typically, a steep-walled narrow gorge is inferred to represent slow persistent erosion,[6] but because many of the geological formations of Canyon Lake Gorge are virtually indistinguishable from other formations which have been attributed to long term (slower) processes, the data collected from Canyon Lake Gorge lends further credence to the hypothesis that some of the most spectacular canyons on Earth may have been carved rapidly during ancient megaflood events.[6]Additionally, because the flood conditions under which the gorge was formed are known, Canyon Lake Gorge provides a means of developing improved computer modelreconstructions of pre-historic floods to determine water volume, flood duration and erosion rates.[8]


Canyon Lake Gorge - Wikipedia

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It's was and is limestone. How solid or whatever hasn't been discussed.

Your argument is with this story and the references for it, not me.

Significance for Geologists:

The 2002 flood at Canyon Lake and subsequent rapid formation of Canyon Lake Gorge presented a unique opportunity to study the geomorphological power of rapidly moving water and to better understand the process of canyon formation.
In their 2010 study, Michael Lamb of the California Institute of Technology and Mark Fonstad of Texas State Universitydocumented the dramatic transformation of a section of the Guadalupe River Valley landscape into a steep-walled bedrock canyon in just three days.[6]

The scientists documented the excavation of bedrock limestone to an average depth of over 20 feet and average width of 130–200 feet for a distance of over one mile.[7] The “plucking” and transport of massive boulders from the site resulted in the formation of several waterfalls, inner channels, and bedrock terraces. The abrasion of rock by sediment-loaded water sculpted walls and created plunge pools and teardrop-shaped “streamlined islands”.[8]

Although some of the geological formations present in the gorge are known to be associated with rapidly flowing flood water (such as the streamlined islands), other formations (such as the inner channels, knickpoints and terraces) have traditionally been interpreted through the “long ago and very slow” paradigm of geologic time in response to shifting climate or tectonic forcing.[6]

Typically, a steep-walled narrow gorge is inferred to represent slow persistent erosion,[6] but because many of the geological formations of Canyon Lake Gorge are virtually indistinguishable from other formations which have been attributed to long term (slower) processes, the data collected from Canyon Lake Gorge lends further credence to the hypothesis that some of the most spectacular canyons on Earth may have been carved rapidly during ancient megaflood events.[6]Additionally, because the flood conditions under which the gorge was formed are known, Canyon Lake Gorge provides a means of developing improved computer modelreconstructions of pre-historic floods to determine water volume, flood duration and erosion rates.[8]


Canyon Lake Gorge - Wikipedia

Nothing in there refutes what I said earlier. It would appear that the "rocks" in question were loosely aggregated. And water behaved as expected with loose material.

The left over boulders is one clue. Moreover? Wiki isn't a valid source-- YEC's have access and can edit in whatever lies they need, to add "evidence" to their claims.

I'd need a more reliable source, than Wiki. Your quote has no references to experts, etc.

Dismissed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing in there refutes what I said earlier. It would appear that the "rocks" in question were loosely aggregated. And water behaved as expected with loose material.

The left over boulders is one clue. Moreover? Wiki isn't a valid source-- YEC's have access and can edit in whatever lies they need, to add "evidence" to their claims.

I'd need a more reliable source, than Wiki. Your quote has no references to experts, etc.

Dismissed.

I don't know why he brings up these red herrings. At any rate the limestone that was eroded was not what one would call pristine. It appears that there was significant weakening of the area ahead of time. The gorge follows a fault trace as shown here:

https://www.canyonlakeguide.com/helpful_info/gorge.htm

Perhaps if he could make a clear point as to why he even brought this up in the first place.

 

[We Never Know]

Nothing in there refutes what I said earlier. It would appear that the "rocks" in question were loosely aggregated. And water behaved as expected with loose material.

The left over boulders is one clue. Moreover? Wiki isn't a valid source-- YEC's have access and can edit in whatever lies they need, to add "evidence" to their claims.

I'd need a more reliable source, than Wiki. Your quote has no references to experts, etc.

Dismissed.

Well I agree with you completely that "WIKI isn't a valid source"
Spread that around. It seems many here think it is. However it had the most information I could find without tourist information etc.
And before I even posted the link I read where it plucked out boulders. Again your argument is with the article and references, not me.