what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[Francine]

Francine: What about the society in which you live that depends on you to help strengthen our nation by rearing a strong family and passing on to them the values given of God, values designed to protect, edify, and strengthen and thusly help us avoid the fate of Sodom and Ghamora?

For the last two thousand years God has declined to judge entire cities or nations for their sins like he did in the days before Calvary. After Christ's atoning work on the cross, it is up to each individual person to choose or reject the gospel, and the fate of their eternal soul rests in their choice.

 

[Francine]

Francine: What of the fact that you may deprive children (should you find yourself with them in a lesbian relationship) the right to have a Mother and a Father? You may not like men but the silent majorities are good and able fathers who love their Families and give them a lot that mothers cannot.

Other than the perpetration of traditional sex roles, there is nothing a father can give a child that a mother cannot. Wisdom, character, and strength are not the monopoly of any one gender.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Logically speaking. If your theology cannot account for the existence of intersex individuals then your theology is false.

IMHO false only in part, along with most others. When I view religion I don't look for perfection anymore. Firstly I am not in a position to determine whether or not it's perfect. Secondly, even if I was, I think I would still just end up chasing my tail. lol

 

[Francine]

Francine, our Heavenly Father does not support or bless Homosexual relationships, His spirit is withdrawn and Lucifer is free to corrode and destroy them at his pleasure. Homosexuality may meet your needs and the needs of your partner but that is as far as it goes.

If God the Holy Spirit withdraws from me, and leaves me at the mercy of Lucifer, so be it, this is what my family and Church have already done as well. We all deserve death for our sins. The Gospel is the good news that God no longer requires atonement in our own blood, or through repeated futile shedding of the blood of animals for our sins. It is Good News so simple it can be understood by a child. Men are saved by grace through faith in our risen Lord Jesus Christ, who was sent by His Father to be crucified as expiation for the transgressions of the whole world. Jesus rose from the dead to new life, and if we renounce the devil and make Jesus the Lord of our life, we have that same eternal life, because he abides in us.

I believe that Christ is risen because of the empty tomb and the eyewitness accounts in the gospels by people who felt their eternal destiny depended on telling the truth, and I believe that to the extent I put to death my "self" and allow Christ to live in me, I share His risen life.

Through prayer I maintain a personal relationship with my Savior, and he has freed me from a fundamental orientation towards sin and brought me into a state of reconciliation with his Father in heaven, who would otherwise be obliged to destroy my body and soul in hell. This has resulted in a profound lack of fear about anything this life can throw at me, and there is also no dread of the world to come. Instead I look forward with hope for the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Smoke]

It sounds painful :yes: a suppository hurts me:sad4:

Who are you trying to kid? If you can't physically handle a suppository, you wouldn't be able to handle moving your bowels, either, and then you'd be full of ...

Well, you maybe you're on to something.

 

[Sunstone]

Other than the perpetration of traditional sex roles, there is nothing a father can give a child that a mother cannot. Wisdom, character, and strength are not the monopoly of any one gender.

I suspect fathers are better at integrating male children into the adult world than are mothers.

 

[gnomon]

IMHO false only in part, along with most others. When I view religion I don't look for perfection anymore. Firstly I am not in a position to determine whether or not it's perfect. Secondly, even if I was, I think I would still just end up chasing my tail. lol

This theology does not apply to all. It only applies to those who keep putting forth the ideological notion that a God created a dichotomous sexual species and that this continues to this day.

I keep putting this forward for those who continue to advance the argument that a God did such that despite evidence contrary to that view.

 

[Draka]

Francine:

What of the other considerations associated with your being a child of God and a member of His eternal family, complete with siblings who love you and will suffer your loss as you cry when the day comes that every knee, including yours, will bend and admit that Jesus is the Christ and that you failed Him?

What about the society in which you live that depends on you to help strengthen our nation by rearing a strong family and passing on to them the values given of God, values designed to protect, edify, and strengthen and thusly help us avoid the fate of Sodom and Ghamora?

What of the fact that you may deprive children (should you find yourself with them in a lesbian relationship) the right to have a Mother and a Father? You may not like men but the silent majorities are good and able fathers who love their Families and give them a lot that mothers cannot.

What of the time wasted by the 95% of homosexual relationships that fail to last 20+ years most of which average only 1.5 years and 85% failing before the 12 year mark. Old age is a terrible thing for those without posterity.

What about commitment to each other? Few homosexuals and lesbians choose to enter into legally recognized unions where such arrangements are available, indicating that such couples do not share the same view of commitment as typified by married couples. Only about 21 percent of the estimated homosexual and lesbian population of Vermont has entered into civil unions. Put another way, 79 percent of homosexuals and lesbians in Vermont choose not to enter into civil unions. Only 2% in Sweden, and 2.8% in the Netherlands choose to make it legally binding.

The much lower rates of homosexual and lesbian civil "marriages" in Sweden and the Netherlands must be viewed in the light of much lower marriage rates in both of those countries, a trend that the introduction of gay "marriage" in the 1990s has not reversed. Thus, as writer Stanley Kurtz argues, the granting of marriage rights to homosexuals and lesbians "has further undermined the institution" of marriage: "Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable."

I could go on in the areas of:
· monogamy vs. promiscuity
· number of children being raised
· health risks
· rates of intimate partner violence

All of which are much more prominent, per capita, in the negative in homosexual relationships than that of heterosexual relationships, and that includes lesbian relationships.

Francine, our Heavenly Father does not support or bless Homosexual relationships, His spirit is withdrawn and Lucifer is free to corrode and destroy them at his pleasure. Homosexuality may meet your needs and the needs of your partner but that is as far as it goes.

I just love statistics with no references. Just how were those statistics gotten? It's not like they can base them on divorce rates now can they? Especially in the U.S. Perhaps one of the reasons that not a whole lot of same sex couples go for the civil union thing is that they just may take it as an insult. It is not a marriage. Anything else is not equal and they would rather stand up for what is right and equal than bow to the inequality that is shown to them.

Unless there is a way to determine the actual number of homosexuals and the actual number of the couples and every one of them are asked these questions, there is no way of verifying any number you have given us. Period. You may have well just pulled those numbers out of thin air for as much accuracy as they have.

 

[Smoke]

I have never understood why religion wants to get mixed up in peoples sexual orientations in the first place.

If you'll notice, religions get mixed up in sexual issues precisely to the extent that they're authoritarian. Our sex drive is powerful, and if they can convince you that you have to answer to them on that account, they can control every other aspect of your life, too.

Even when priests keep concubines and monastics violate their vows, religious authorities prefer hypocrisy to open defiance. The important thing is that you recognize their authority. That's why a Ted Haggard or a Jimmy Swaggart can always find a following after making a public gesture of repentance; the most important thing is that you recognize that you were wrong to defy religious teachings.

Sometimes they'll tell you that sex for reproductive reasons is okay -- like we really need for people to reproduce as much as possible -- but "errant" sexuality distracts you from spiritual things, and that's the reason you need to submit to religious control of sexuality. You'll notice, though, that they never feel that building temples or cathedrals distracts anybody from spiritual things.

 

[Smoke]

Logically speaking. If your theology cannot account for the existence of intersex individuals then your theology is false.

That's one of the reasons I quit Christianity. I just can't believe that people who can't even begin to grasp the complexities of human sexuality have somehow managed to penetrate the mystery of existence or to understand the mind of the Maker of the Universe.

 

[Francine]

I suspect fathers are better at integrating male children into the adult world than are mothers.

Look at the sex-ratios of students in institutions of higher learning these days. Looks like we have a problem with boys being left behind, which means fathers are not doing what you claim they are better at doing. Maybe fathers should get their own act squared away before they go around pointing fingers at Heather and her Two Mommies.

 

[Smoke]

I suspect fathers are better at integrating male children into the adult world than are mothers.

Why?

My paternal grandfather was nine when his father died, and my maternal grandfather was ten when his father died, and neither of them ever had a stepfather, either. They did okay.

 

[Autodidact]

Sex is reserved for marriage and marriage is reserved for one man and one woman.

Really? Apparently you differ from your Bible in this opinion, according to which marriage is reserved for one man and any number of women.

Where in the Bible does it limit marriage to one man and one woman?

 

[Autodidact]

Francine:

What of the other considerations associated with your being a child of God and a member of His eternal family, complete with siblings who love you and will suffer your loss as you cry when the day comes that every knee, including yours, will bend and admit that Jesus is the Christ and that you failed Him?

What about it? In the unlikely event that you turn out to be right about any of this, what on earth does it have to do with homosexuality? What about your failure to spread Christ's central doctrine: love one another? Does Christ have a problem with homosexuality? Odd that he never shared his disapproval with us.

What about the society in which you live that depends on you to help strengthen our nation by rearing a strong family and passing on to them the values given of God, values designed to protect, edify, and strengthen and thusly help us avoid the fate of Sodom and Ghamora?

I agree. We should do everything we can to strengthen and support the family: all families. Will you support mine? Or undermine it?

What of the fact that you may deprive children (should you find yourself with them in a lesbian relationship) the right to have a Mother and a Father? You may not like men but the silent majorities are good and able fathers who love their Families and give them a lot that mothers cannot.

What about the face that you may deprive children the right to have two mothers? What makes you think I don't like men? Do you have some actual objective research that indicates that the children of intact two parent lesbian families suffer in any way in comparison to the children of intact two parent heterosexual families?

What of the time wasted by the 95% of homosexual relationships that fail to last 20+ years most of which average only 1.5 years and 85% failing before the 12 year mark. Old age is a terrible thing for those without posterity.

I hesitate to inquire what dark place you pulled these statistics out of. Were any of these relationships marriages?

What about commitment to each other? Few homosexuals and lesbians choose to enter into legally recognized unions where such arrangements are available, indicating that such couples do not share the same view of commitment as typified by married couples. Only about 21 percent of the estimated homosexual and lesbian population of Vermont has entered into civil unions. Put another way, 79 percent of homosexuals and lesbians in Vermont choose not to enter into civil unions. Only 2% in Sweden, and 2.8% in the Netherlands choose to make it legally binding.

I take it that you're in support of gay marriage then?

I could go on in the areas of:
· monogamy vs. promiscuity
· number of children being raised
· health risks
· rates of intimate partner violence

Would you please, specifically in relation to lesbians? Do lesbians have greater, or lesser health risks than heterosexual women? What about intimate partner violence? And I strongly agree that heterosexuals need to be more responsible about the number of children they give birth to, especially when these births are unplanned and unwanted. Fortunately, that almost never happens to lesbians.

All of which are much more prominent, per capita, in the negative in homosexual relationships than that of heterosexual relationships, and that includes lesbian relationships.

This is the third time you've lied in this thread. You are lying. You cannot back up this bogus statistic because it's false.

Francine, our Heavenly Father does not support or bless Homosexual relationships, His spirit is withdrawn and Lucifer is free to corrode and destroy them at his pleasure. Homosexuality may meet your needs and the needs of your partner but that is as far as it goes.

Nice of you Heavenly Father to drop in and give the exclusive first-hand knowledge directly to you like that. Now no one has to figure it out for herself. Where again did your Heavenly Father prohibit lesbian relationships? Oh, that's right, He didn't. That's just Evandr spouting his lies again.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

ONLY if you are going to Humpty Dumpty the definition of sex:

2 : an act performed with another for sexual gratification​

And you seem to be assuming that penetration has to be with a penis.

Which is interesting because I am willing to bet that most wives would say that oral sex is still sex.
Regardless of the lack of penetration.

Hey, this isn't my story bud, I'm just running with the twaddle that was spouted earlier by rheff78 that said homosexuals of any brand aren't actually able to have sex, cos if it doesn't involve a man and a woman it apparently isn't sex. I make no assumptions...if you want to do something with an apple turnover and call it sex that's your perogative as far as I'm concerned.
Perhaps rheff's using the Clinton Definition.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Francine:

What of the other considerations associated with your being a child of God and a member of His eternal family, complete with siblings who love you and will suffer your loss as you cry when the day comes that every knee, including yours, will bend and admit that Jesus is the Christ and that you failed Him?

What about the society in which you live that depends on you to help strengthen our nation by rearing a strong family and passing on to them the values given of God, values designed to protect, edify, and strengthen and thusly help us avoid the fate of Sodom and Ghamora?

What of the fact that you may deprive children (should you find yourself with them in a lesbian relationship) the right to have a Mother and a Father? You may not like men but the silent majorities are good and able fathers who love their Families and give them a lot that mothers cannot.

What of the time wasted by the 95% of homosexual relationships that fail to last 20+ years most of which average only 1.5 years and 85% failing before the 12 year mark. Old age is a terrible thing for those without posterity.

What about commitment to each other? Few homosexuals and lesbians choose to enter into legally recognized unions where such arrangements are available, indicating that such couples do not share the same view of commitment as typified by married couples. Only about 21 percent of the estimated homosexual and lesbian population of Vermont has entered into civil unions. Put another way, 79 percent of homosexuals and lesbians in Vermont choose not to enter into civil unions. Only 2% in Sweden, and 2.8% in the Netherlands choose to make it legally binding.

The much lower rates of homosexual and lesbian civil "marriages" in Sweden and the Netherlands must be viewed in the light of much lower marriage rates in both of those countries, a trend that the introduction of gay "marriage" in the 1990s has not reversed. Thus, as writer Stanley Kurtz argues, the granting of marriage rights to homosexuals and lesbians "has further undermined the institution" of marriage: "Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable."

I could go on in the areas of:
· monogamy vs. promiscuity
· number of children being raised
· health risks
· rates of intimate partner violence

All of which are much more prominent, per capita, in the negative in homosexual relationships than that of heterosexual relationships, and that includes lesbian relationships.

Francine, our Heavenly Father does not support or bless Homosexual relationships, His spirit is withdrawn and Lucifer is free to corrode and destroy them at his pleasure. Homosexuality may meet your needs and the needs of your partner but that is as far as it goes.

Just because you have no piece of paper doesn't mean you're not in a relationship approximating marriage. My husband and I have been together for the last 15 years. We have three children. We got married last October. I can honestly say that the certificate has made absolutely no difference whatsoever to our relationship. If people choose NOT to have a ceremony, it doesn't necessarily follow that they aren't in all the ways that matter, married.
And did you ever stop to think that perhaps homosexuals aren't taking up the 'civil union' option not because they don't want to get married, but because what they're able to have isn't what they deserve?
As to 'time wasted' in relationships, if you think every relationship you ever had/have before marriage is a waste of time, then I'm very sad for you. I'm sad that you missed the opportunity to take anything from any of those relationships and have obviously written them - and the people you shared your life with for a time - off, because it was a waste. If it was a waste, it's because you made it so.
Also, when 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce (and twice as many second heterosexual marriages end the same way), I'm not sure you can really spout anything about heterosexuals entering into marriage obviously taking their commitment more seriously than homosexuals who don't get married. It isn't the wedding or the piece of paper that makes the commitment. It's the people involved. If you need a piece of paper to make you act like a committed member of a relationship, then all the pieces of paper in the world won't make you married.
At the end of the day, it always strikes me as rather pathetic when religious people waffle on about how important 'marriage' is, when what they really mean is how important 'wedding ceremony' is. The sad thing is that they're clearly unable to differentiate between the two.

 

[yossarian22]

Look at the sex-ratios of students in institutions of higher learning these days. Looks like we have a problem with boys being left behind, which means fathers are not doing what you claim they are better at doing. Maybe fathers should get their own act squared away before they go around pointing fingers at Heather and her Two Mommies.

How is college relevant to integration into adult society at all?

If its one thing I dislike more than fake statistics, its [] suppositions. Nothing you have cited showed anything. At least Sunstone admitted it was a hunch.

 

[Francine]

How is college relevant to integration into adult society at all?

It used to not be the case. Now you can't get any sort of job with a living wage without at least four years of college, and even then you start at barely above the unskilled labor rates.

 

[yossarian22]

It used to not be the case. Now you can't get any sort of job with a living wage without at least four years of college, and even then you start at barely above the unskilled labor rates.

Wage does not equate to integration into adult society.
Besides the point of ignoring what majors people are going into and subsequent pay disparities...

 

[sojourner]

It is certainly true that I don't know the power that being gay has on a person, the only thing that I can say is that it is my understanding that the Lord will never tempt us in a manner that we cannot turn away from.

Maybe, then, homosexuality isn't a "temptation," but an orientation.

You say that it is hard to deal with for some who find themselves with this tendency. I have a question: Don't you think that the more socially accepted it is the harder it becomes for some one with the desire to change to actually make that change?

No. I think that the reason homosexuals want to change is because of social pressure to "be normal," not because they're disgusted with themselves.

I truly do see your delemma but it would be more than I could bear to have the all searching eye of our Heavenly Father glance at me with dissapointment, as he passes judgment on someone for ignoring His commnadments, because I helped make it easy for them to do so.

Don't you think God looks with disappointment on us, when someone commits suicide, due to social pressure to "be straight," because we were the ones who put that pressure on them?