what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[Mike182]

I'm curious. Do you espouse the eradication of all stereotypes, resulting in a complete blur between sexual differentiation? Are there some defining stereotypes that look realistically at differences, and use them to compare/contrast, rather than qualify?

Do you advocate complete andogyny?

i don't think this is going off topic, because it is explaining the religious reason why i am pro-homosexuality... but if it looks like going off topic then we can start a new thread

in my personal religion, finding our true selves in this life is the single most important thing you can do. i believe that people should discover their identities within themselves, and i believe that keeping to stereotypes - by either holding one's self to stereotypes, or by judging others by stereotypes - stops people from doing this.

so yes, i espouse the eradication of all stereotypes. or at least, i espouse people being aware of stereotypes, after all, my finding my true will doesn't mean i have to lift the veil of ignorance from others so long as i am aware of the stereotypes that affect me, my actions, my perceptions, and work to change that, i'm doing good within myself.

the word androgyny - from Wiki - can be used in 2 ways. 1) the mixing of two gender orientated characteristics into one. or 2) a characteristic that is not restricted to any one gender.

both of these ways of using the word androgyny have some socio-cultural assumption that there is a definitive masculine and a definitive feminine from which to make relative comparisons - assuming that this is in reference to behavior and other social interactions, and not physical parameters. these are the stereotypical bonds i believe in breaking from, so no, i do not advocate androgyny.

i guess the follow-up question is, what do i advocate? simple, "intelligence".

 

[Darkness]

I'm sure that it being an unhealthy lifestyle has nothing to do with it.

A quick comment that tries to sound smart but is empty at the core. :banghead3

If God includes homosexuality as one of those sins that will be punishable by eternal separation from God, which he clearly states in his word ,well than ,no more needs to be said about it

What if God is wrong?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Who is your "parent"? (or mentor) Surely you have one.

I have an abundance of parents and as a result of the actions of a couple I'm very aware of exactly how I phrase what I say to my children. Constant negative reinforcement only produces a negative result.
Which is why I don't think a god who says there is nothing in man that is good is much of a figure to look up to. For a start, he clearly isn't looking very hard.

 

[Valjean]

I'm sure that it being an unhealthy lifestyle has nothing to do with it.

Why has no-one jumped on the designation of homosexuality as a "lifestyle?"

Characterizing homosexuality as a lifestyle is saying that homosexuals behave, think, live and act as a homogenous community; that they have the same likes, dislikes and values.
This is clearly absurd. Homosexuality is no more a lifestyle than heterosexuality is.

Allowing such a designation to stand unchallenged plays right into the hands of those who would like to paint those with an atypical sexual focus as a species apart; as the other.

 

[roli]

I have an abundance of parents and as a result of the actions of a couple I'm very aware of exactly how I phrase what I say to my children. Constant negative reinforcement only produces a negative result.
Which is why I don't think a god who says there is nothing in man that is good is much of a figure to look up to. For a start, he clearly isn't looking very hard.

According to God's word,nothing in man is good because God see's the heart of men ,the intentions,motives, thoughts and the actions.
Jer 17:9The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Gen 6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

Men judge outward appearances God judges the heart.
If you read the bible you not only see the ongoing mercy and grace but the encouraging and hopeful words that are said by the father and the son, but we want all the good but refuse to accept the rebuke and the chastening that God says lead men to repentance.
But I guess people only see what they want to see

Hbr 12:5"My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives."

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

I'm not saying that there are'nt good deeds that people do, that is obvious, but we talk about our goodness and God talks about righteousness and Holiness.
It's not the good that we do or don't do to our fellow man.
It;s the unrighteousness and unholiness that God claims we do towards him
Pro 20:6Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?

If men want rewards for doing good in this life ,they will get their rewards only for this life.
I don't think people understand the the God of Judeo Christianity says our sin and misdeeds are against him and when we recognise that, he says it leads to salvation for the next life.
The question is what matters this life or the apparent next.
2Cr 7:10For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

 

[roli]

Where does God prohibit lesbianism, roli?

The word of God, the same place that he speaks about every sin.
But if you don't know him or how Holy he is, you'll never see sin for what it is.
I don't thinks it's because people can't find it written on every page of the bible,it's becasue people don't want to find it there.

People don't want to confront the sin that angers God, so they make a God to suit what they want him to be and think their justified in labelling him this or that.

 

[Francine]

Why has no-one jumped on the designation of homosexuality as a "lifestyle?"

Because only straights have lives. All we get is life styles.

 

[sandandfoam]

.

People ........ make a God to suit what they want him to be and think their justified in labelling him this or that.

Is that not true for you too?

 

[roli]

God clearly states? Show me the quotation from God.
First off, I don't recall any quotations from God on the subject. Second, the homosexual references are about a clear as mud, where they pertain to some sort of absolute, heavenly law.

Plenty more needs to be said about it. It's this kind of blind, surface mistreatment of scriptures that has led to many atrocities by Christians on behalf of God.

If you are christian as your title indicates and you don't see where God speaks of sin then maybe you need to:

2Cr 13:5 — Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[roli]

This is so wrong on so many levels. When humanity was created, God called it "good." Therefore, humanity is inherently good, and God seeks to celebrate that inherent goodness.

This post is frightening.

Then please tell me your views on what happened after God said it was good.
And why the ongoing request of God to men to turn from their sin and return unto God.

I'd really like to hear a little more on your theology of sin, punishment, righteousness, judgement and the rest of doctrine.

I'm not hear to argue with you about doctrine, only discuss it,but if your views contradict the theme of scripture, that man has fallen into a depraved state of sin ,wickedness and the like and need a savior to redeem them to the place where they can be reconciled to God, than what does the title of Christian mean beside your name

 

[sojourner]

If you are christian as your title indicates and you don't see where God speaks of sin then maybe you need to:

2Cr 13:5 — Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Don't purport to question and judge my faith and my spiritual standing. It's very bad form. :redcard:

This is the kind of self-righteous garbage I've come to expect from some sectors of the Faith.

I issued a specific challenge to you about scripture, and instead of simply answering it (since the subject is so clearly delineated in scripture), you start making judgments about my faith. How typical.

Once again, show me the book, chapter, and verse in the Bible that is a direct quotation from God with regard to homosexuality. You can't do it, because it ain't in there. All you can show is someone who says something about homosexuality. The rest is assumption.

Maybe I don't need to do anything of the sort you suggest. Maybe you're in no position to make such a suggestion. Maybe, instead of spouting self-righteous drivel, you could bother to actually answer the challenge I posed.

But, then, what do I know? I'm just a reprobate, whose faith needs re-examining. I guess the process of the Commission on Ministry in my denomination was remiss in it's discernment of my spiritual well-being.

:tribal2:

 

[Evandr]

Why has no-one jumped on the designation of homosexuality as a "lifestyle?"

Characterizing homosexuality as a lifestyle is saying that homosexuals behave, think, live and act as a homogenous community; that they have the same likes, dislikes and values.
This is clearly absurd. Homosexuality is no more a lifestyle than heterosexuality is.

Allowing such a designation to stand unchallenged plays right into the hands of those who would like to paint those with an atypical sexual focus as a species apart; as the other.

I agree that homosexuality is not a life style; it’s a sexual preference. There are homosexual people in all walks of life and in all life styles.

I do think that homosexuality is a sin against the commandments of God, not because the individual is inherently evil or anything like that, but only because it denies God a positive response to His invitation to become like Him. That may bother you or it may not, it is an individual’s right to choose, but it is still understood as a fact by the vast majority of those who have made it their life’s goal to know God.

Another consideration is that the whole issue has two fronts, homosexuality itself, the practice of which may or may not be within a person's ability to control (that’s a whole other topic of debate), and the “Choice” of the individual to promote it as a social norm, which is something they can control.

Personally I try not to judge people, homosexual or not, but I do become concerned when anything I believe to be a social ill (it is my right to believe that) becomes so wide spread that it begins to confuse rising generations with regard to the commandments of God, blurring the lines between right and wrong to the point where they are not distinguishable and sometimes even reversed.

Setting the commandments of God at naught is good for nobody and reversing the labels between right and wrong is deadly to society. History has never failed to show that such an attitude spells the destruction of the society that pursues it. As the poet and philosopher George Santayana so aptly put it: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

[roli]

Is that not true for you too?

If I have created a God which opposes the judeo christian God and the entire gospel message,then please show me, but remember, the standard for a Christian ,born again spirit filled beleiver is the word of God confirmed by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them and that was written by men as they were also moved by the Holy Ghost. But again that there is the major discrepancy between a believer and a non believer
I'm not expecting that you believe or follow the word, maybe so, but if not ,this will be futile from it's infancy.
So please show me where I have errored in this way.
The word of God is where I get my concept and view of God ,but more importantly it is the Holy Spirit that confirms what the word says concerning his truth .

Now again that there is another problem, God's truth and man's ideas of what truth is are diametrically opposed.

So where do we go from here ?

 

[sojourner]

Now again that there is another problem, God's truth and man's ideas of what truth is are diametrically opposed.

So where do we go from here ?

We remain open to the possibility that what we thought we understood about what is written might be mistaken, or at least open to review and revision.

We realize that what we understand is understood through a colored lens of our own hermeneutic. I call it "the hermeneutical cloud." We realize that this cloud exists, and we must do all we can to stand outside ourselves to understand the message we read.

Unless one is more comfortable wearing blinders.

 

[sojourner]

If I have created a God which opposes the judeo christian God and the entire gospel message,then please show me

People ........ make a God to suit what they want him to be and think their justified in labelling him this or that.

If you are christian as your title indicates and you don't see where God speaks of sin then maybe you need to:

2Cr 13:5 — Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Interesting.

 

[doppelganger]

But if you don't know him or how Holy he is, you'll never see sin for what it is.

Indeed. :yes:

 

[sandandfoam]

So where do we go from here ?

Let's shoot the breeze.
I think that to rely solely on a book is to look away from the world around us and by so doing deny yourself much of God.
I think the Christians who think God spreaks through 2 books, the Bible and creation are on to something.
My views and yours are both personal constructs that seem real to us and I think your earlier post -"People ........ make a God to suit what they want him to be and think their justified in labelling him this or that." applies to both of us.

 

[Darkness]

The word of God is where I get my concept and view of God ,but more importantly it is the Holy Spirit that confirms what the word says concerning his truth .

Have you ever considered that the so called "Holy Spirit" is an Adversary deceiving you? How do you know you have the right "Holy Spirit" and all the others who claim to have the Spirit are being deceived?

 

[sojourner]

Then please tell me your views on what happened after God said it was good.
And why the ongoing request of God to men to turn from their sin and return unto God.

I'd really like to hear a little more on your theology of sin, punishment, righteousness, judgement and the rest of doctrine.

I'm not hear to argue with you about doctrine, only discuss it,but if your views contradict the theme of scripture, that man has fallen into a depraved state of sin ,wickedness and the like and need a savior to redeem them to the place where they can be reconciled to God, than what does the title of Christian mean beside your name

We sin. We cover ourselves with dirt. But that dirt does not penetrate our ground of being and change what we fundamentally are: good creatures.

God asks us to do that, becuase God desires a relationship with us. God wants us to be honest with ourselves and true to our selves.

I don't spend too much time obsessing on sin. I know it's there. I try to be honest about it. But I also try to celebrate the goodness inherent in each of us, instead of focusing on the sin, which is a false front, so to speak. In our baptismal covenant that each baptismal candidate is asked to make, there is the question: "Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself?"

I know that we are human and have weaknesses. I also know that God doesn't expect perfection from us. I trust that folks do the best that they're capable of and that grace takes care of the rest. In the end, God will pick us up out of the dirt, wash us off, and claim us as God's children. In the end, justification is a justification of our inherent goodness. Righteousness is defined by unconditional love.

Somehow, I don't think this theology contradicts the theme of scripture. Christ became Incarnate to reconcile humanity to God. Following him, we may be assured of that grace. It's that assurance of grace and of basic human goodness that gives meaning to the title "Christian."

 

[Darkness]

We sin. We cover ourselves with dirt. But that dirt does not penetrate our ground of being and change what we fundamentally are: good creatures.

God asks us to do that, becuase God desires a relationship with us. God wants us to be honest with ourselves and true to our selves.

I don't spend too much time obsessing on sin. I know it's there. I try to be honest about it. But I also try to celebrate the goodness inherent in each of us, instead of focusing on the sin, which is a false front, so to speak. In our baptismal covenant that each baptismal candidate is asked to make, there is the question: "Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself?"

I know that we are human and have weaknesses. I also know that God doesn't expect perfection from us. I trust that folks do the best that they're capable of and that grace takes care of the rest. In the end, God will pick us up out of the dirt, wash us off, and claim us as God's children. In the end, justification is a justification of our inherent goodness. Righteousness is defined by unconditional love.

Somehow, I don't think this theology contradicts the theme of scripture. Christ became Incarnate to reconcile humanity to God. Following him, we may be assured of that grace. It's that assurance of grace and of basic human goodness that gives meaning to the title "Christian."

John 12:32 (King James Version)
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.